how beneficial are WDH. do you use one?

kezngaz · Senior Member

how beneficial are WDH. do you use one?

Desert Dweller · Senior Member

Don't need them, don't use them. 50,000kms no problems. Most people think they're essential. An absolute Aussie tradition.
Here come the other posters to tell you that you DEFINITELY need them.

Woody46 · Member

Keith. I won't tell you either way. I see you're sitting there with all your friends, perhaps you just had a bad hair day (lol ). Keep the love flowing. Cheers Woody46

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

Over the past 40 years, when the owner of Ford Falcons, Hilux and Landcruiser vehicles, I have used WDH's when towing a 'large' van or trailer.

During that time, I had also towed those vans and trailers without a WDH - and the vehicles did not cope anywhere near as well as when the WDH was utilised.

It should be known that with ALL vehicles, the connecting of a van/trailer will cause an increase of weight on the vehicle. That weight will increase the downward pressure (weight) on the rear axle and a consequent reduction of downward pressure (weight) on the front axle.

This extra weight on the rear axle and lessening of weight on the front axle has the potential (the POTENTIAL) to reduce the ability of the vehicle's front tyres to grip the road - ie adversely affecting the steering and braking capabilities. This potential is dependant on a variety of things - particularly the towball weight applied, suspension of the vehicle etc.

Perhaps an example - Landcruiser (80,100,200 series) towing a van upto 1900Kg would quite probably never need WDH as the weight applied to the rear axle by the towball weight would be within the suspension's (and the vehicle's) ability to cope.

However, the same Landcruiser towing a van of 2.200Kg+ would quite probably require either a WDH or some upgrade/improvement of the vehicle suspension.

That would be to ensure the weight did not adversely affect the vehicles ability to steer, brake and/or impact the stability at towing speed AND braking from those towing speeds.

Manufacturers of many 'modern' vehicles often do not 'approve/recommend' using a WDH. This can be because -

they have either not tested the vehicle with one and therefore will not 'put their neck on the line';
they only approve the use of a WDH provided/installed by themselves;
the vehicle's 'chassis' is not strong enough to handle the additional weight transference;
simply because they can.

Additionally, some van manufacturers do not approve/recommend using a WDH on their van either. Often this is because the extra stress applied to the A-frame is too great and jeopardises its safety.

So, after all that long-winded background, I offer the following.

I believe those with a modern ute (Hilux/Ranger/BT50/Colorado etc) should be using (or at least consider) a WDH if they are towing a van with an ATM in excess of 2,000Kg.

Also, those with a Landcruiser/Prado/Patrol/Pajero etc should also be using (or at least consider) a WDH if towing a van in excess of 2,000Kg.

Of course, rather than using a WDH, there is the option of upgrading the suspension of the vehicle, perhaps even through to gaining engineering certification, so that the vehicle can better, and safely, handle the extra weight of the towball weight of a heavy van.

So the bottom line kezngaz - what vehicle do you have, what condition/age is it in, what is the ATM of your van. Of course, there are those with vehicles I have mentioned above who do not bother with a WDH with towing over 2,000Kg ATM and who believe they don't need one.

It is THEIR choice - and perhaps their particular example of vehicle they own does cope. It is my experience that a Landcruiser towing 2,000Kg+ is much more stable with a WDH than without one.

Perhaps, as Desert Dweller suggests, it might be now time to get out some popcorn and settle back and wait for the flurry of following responses.

Cheers - John

Jaahn · Guru

Hi, smile

Having just read Rockylizards reply I am amazed at how good a reply it is. I do not have a big van or a 4WD currently but have towed quite a few things over a lot of years with different tugs. I have found as John says, WD bars make a big difference in making towing better and more stable.

Jaahn

erad · Guru

I din't know how a WDH actually works, other than by trying to bend the tow vehicle's chassis, but it does seem to work, so that is what matters. An important feature of a WDH system is that the headlight aiming of the tug is not affected by a van on its back. This is important if you are going to be doing any night driving. It also must reduce the physical load on the rear axle of the tug, so this must help with tyre wear and safety.

Another benefit is the friction created by the load bars on certain types of WDH. They could help in reducing the tendency to tailwag, but if you are relying on that as a feature, your van is not properly set up anyway.

Personally, I don't use a hitch because I could not get out of my driveway with one fitted, but I do know that they work.

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

This is a fairly good article on WDH and other weight related information.

http://caravansplus.com.au/catalog/help-tips10.php

Cheers - John

Bass · Senior Member

Used a WDH with the DMAX even though it had suspension upgrade. now have a 200 series with a suspension upgrade and have towed with and without the WDH. the WDH hitch now sits in the shed won't use it again ON THIS VECHILE. my van in holiday mode nudges 3000kg with 280kg ball weight, have OME suspension with 200kg rear springs and air bags ( not really needed ) over the front wheels I have 2 large batteries a steel bull bar with a 10,000lb winch all about 170 + /- kg which counteracts almost the tow ball weight. with the van attached the front raises 10mm.
Each to their own I suppose but I am comfortable with my set up as we do a lot of dirt road work.

Cheers bass

brickies · Guru

None so blind has one that don't want see , John you have posted great info on this before and always good info thank you . I also use WDH

Ron-D · Guru

With my vehicle it sags a little in the rear end with 2 ton of van on its rear end, most probably do eh..

So having a 4wd drive vehicle that has a certain amount of traction takeing off its front end and lights raised is an absolute no brainer.

Two options one expensive suspension upgrade, option two weight distribution hitch,option two saved big bucks and works like a charm....

T

meetoo · Guru

rockylizard wrote:
Gday...
Over the past 40 years, when the owner of Ford Falcons, Hilux and Landcruiser vehicles, I have used WDH's when towing a 'large' van or trailer.
During that time, I had also towed those vans and trailers without a WDH - and the vehicles did not cope anywhere near as well as when the WDH was utilised.
It should be known that with ALL vehicles, the connecting of a van/trailer will cause an increase of weight on the vehicle. That weight will increase the downward pressure (weight) on the rear axle and a consequent reduction of downward pressure (weight) on the front axle.
This extra weight on the rear axle and lessening of weight on the front axle has the potential (the POTENTIAL) to reduce the ability of the vehicle's front tyres to grip the road - ie adversely affecting the steering and braking capabilities. This potential is dependant on a variety of things - particularly the towball weight applied, suspension of the vehicle etc.
Perhaps an example - Landcruiser (80,100,200 series) towing a van upto 1900Kg would quite probably never need WDH as the weight applied to the rear axle by the towball weight would be within the suspension's (and the vehicle's) ability to cope.
However, the same Landcruiser towing a van of 2.200Kg+ would quite probably require either a WDH or some upgrade/improvement of the vehicle suspension.
That would be to ensure the weight did not adversely affect the vehicles ability to steer, brake and/or impact the stability at towing speed AND braking from those towing speeds.
Manufacturers of many 'modern' vehicles often do not 'approve/recommend' using a WDH. This can be because -
they have either not tested the vehicle with one and therefore will not 'put their neck on the line';
they only approve the use of a WDH provided/installed by themselves;
the vehicle's 'chassis' is not strong enough to handle the additional weight transference;
simply because they can.
Additionally, some van manufacturers do not approve/recommend using a WDH on their van either. Often this is because the extra stress applied to the A-frame is too great and jeopardises its safety.
So, after all that long-winded background, I offer the following.
I believe those with a modern ute (Hilux/Ranger/BT50/Colorado etc) should be using (or at least consider) a WDH if they are towing a van with an ATM in excess of 2,000Kg.
Also, those with a Landcruiser/Prado/Patrol/Pajero etc should also be using (or at least consider) a WDH if towing a van in excess of 2,000Kg.
Of course, rather than using a WDH, there is the option of upgrading the suspension of the vehicle, perhaps even through to gaining engineering certification, so that the vehicle can better, and safely, handle the extra weight of the towball weight of a heavy van.
So the bottom line kezngaz - what vehicle do you have, what condition/age is it in, what is the ATM of your van. Of course, there are those with vehicles I have mentioned above who do not bother with a WDH with towing over 2,000Kg ATM and who believe they don't need one.
It is THEIR choice - and perhaps their particular example of vehicle they own does cope. It is my experience that a Landcruiser towing 2,000Kg+ is much more stable with a WDH than without one.
Perhaps, as Desert Dweller suggests, it might be now time to get out some popcorn and settle back and wait for the flurry of following responses.
Cheers - John

Hi John,

Great sensible post. Thanks for that.

Cheers, John

Izabarack · Guru

I bought my van in a configuration that does away with any need for a WDH. Low ball weight, long distance between ball and first spring hanger, lots of the van weight close to the axle line and down low. My tow vehicle weighs much more than the van. I really don't want about 50 Kgs mass swinging around at the hinge between vehicle and van. So, no WDH for me.

If I was towing a really heavy van with a light vehicle, plus ball weight towards 300 and poor distribution of weight in the van, then I would have a WDH and never go over 90KPH. My thoughts are that the decision on a WDH should be made after considering the combination and not as an arbitrary decision without looking at the benefits, or otherwise, in a particular situation.

Many a proper expert will say that a WDH is only necessary in the case of poor van design and bad combinations.

Iza

Phil C · Guru

We have a 2700KG caravan on a Ford Ranger. The WDH works well for us..

Cheers

Woody n Sue · Guru

Just get a 5th wheeler and all this is irrelevant
Woody

Delta18 · Guru

People that are against WDH fitment just do not understand, or don't want to accept physics.

An average (these days) large van will have a ball weight of 250 - 350kg, that is over a 1/4 tonne weight maybe 1 1/2 meters behind the rear car axle.

Drive at highway speed & run over the normal, and sometimes abnormal undulations (think Bruce Highway for example) and this can easily dynamically increase to 1/2 tonne weight bouncing on the towball.

If you have ever used a See-Saw as a kid, you know what a large kid on one end and a smaller kid on the other does. It doesn't matter if you have the mightiest suspension upgrade money can buy, the heavy end still goes down.

If you like driving your rig with your front wheels clawing the air like a praying mantis go ahead & don't use a WDH. Good luck.

Cheers Neil

rockylizard · Guru

Delta18 wrote:
People that are against WDH fitment just do not understand, or don't want to accept physics.
An average (these days) large van will have a ball weight of 250 - 350kg, that is over a 1/4 tonne weight maybe 1 1/2 meters behind the rear car axle.
Drive at highway speed & run over the normal, and sometimes abnormal undulations (think Bruce Highway for example) and this can easily dynamically increase to 1/2 tonne weight bouncing on the towball.
Gday...
I agree with ya Delta18 ... but that same example displays, when using a WDH, just how much stress can potentially be transferred to a vehicle's chassis/suspension etc ... and the van's A-frame ... when a WDH is up tight to 'restore' the level.
In some ways, a WDH may not be the answer in many cases where a heavy van is involved - at some stage, it may be better to have a complete revision/upgrade of the vehicle's suspension - or use something like a Yankee Ute/IVECO twin cab etc rather than a Cruiser/Ute for vans 2,700Kg+. Cheers - John
If you have ever used a See-Saw as a kid, you know what a large kid on one end and a smaller kid on the other does. It doesn't matter if you have the mightiest suspension upgrade money can buy, the heavy end still goes down.
If you like driving your rig with your front wheels clawing the air like a praying mantis go ahead & don't use a WDH. Good luck.
Cheers Neil

kezngaz · Senior Member

THANKS FOR THE REPLIES GUYS.

Surely if your vans ball weight is under the specs of the allowable by the tugs manufacturer, then the tug shouldnt be nose up n ar$e down?

When be bpught the van, it came with the remainder of a hayman reece wdh, and not the shank for the tug.
Was wondering weather it was worth purchasing the shank or not.

Our set up sits pretty level when loaded for long weekends and havent really loaded her up yet.

The van has a ball load of 250kg and the tug is rated at 280kg,we also use scales every time to ensure we dont exceed the 250kg, albeit very close!!

brickies · Guru

I think you had made up your mind before you ask the question .

Desert Dweller · Senior Member

kezngaz wrote:
THANKS FOR THE REPLIES GUYS.
Surely if your vans ball weight is under the specs of the allowable by the tugs manufacturer, then the tug shouldnt be nose up n ar$e down?
When be bpught the van, it came with the remainder of a hayman reece wdh, and not the shank for the tug.
Was wondering weather it was worth purchasing the shank or not.
Our set up sits pretty level when loaded for long weekends and havent really loaded her up yet.
The van has a ball load of 250kg and the tug is rated at 280kg,we also use scales every time to ensure we dont exceed the 250kg, albeit very close!!

That's exactly why we don't use or need a WDH. Our Navara is rated at 2800kg towing capacity with a maximum ball weight if 250kg.

Our van weighs 1600kg fully loaded & the ball weight is 150kg. The whole rig sits dead level & when driving over bumpy pot-holed roads it doesn't ''pitch'' front to rear.

50,000kms of ''smooth sailing'' over all sorts of terrain in all sorts of weather in 4+ years without a WDH tells the story.

Some people ''freak out'' when they see a rig without a WDH! Idi*ts!

There are certain things involved with RVing that go standard with the lifestyle. If you don't cook on a Baby Q you're not cooking at all, same goes for WDH's. People tend to blindly

follow one another without looking at alternatives.

Bass · Senior Member

Radar · Guru

Desert Dweller wrote:
kezngaz wrote:
THANKS FOR THE REPLIES GUYS.
Surely if your vans ball weight is under the specs of the allowable by the tugs manufacturer, then the tug shouldnt be nose up n ar$e down?
When be bpught the van, it came with the remainder of a hayman reece wdh, and not the shank for the tug.
Was wondering weather it was worth purchasing the shank or not.
Our set up sits pretty level when loaded for long weekends and havent really loaded her up yet.
The van has a ball load of 250kg and the tug is rated at 280kg,we also use scales every time to ensure we dont exceed the 250kg, albeit very close!!
That's exactly why we don't use or need a WDH. Our Navara is rated at 2800kg towing capacity with a maximum ball weight if 250kg.
Our van weighs 1600kg fully loaded & the ball weight is 150kg. The whole rig sits dead level & when driving over bumpy pot-holed roads it doesn't ''pitch'' front to rear.
50,000kms of ''smooth sailing'' over all sorts of terrain in all sorts of weather in 4+ years without a WDH tells the story.
Some people ''freak out'' when they see a rig without a WDH! Idi*ts!
There are certain things involved with RVing that go standard with the lifestyle. If you don't cook on a Baby Q you're not cooking at all, same goes for WDH's. People tend to blindly
follow one another without looking at alternatives.

My thoughts also Desert Dweller

I have always maintained setting the tow vehicle up to carry a holiday load and to tow a your caravan is number one to do and then adding wd bars as a extra precaution is the bonus.

The way I am looking at it the fellows with the Baby Q need wd bars to handle there excess weight. We enjoy the simply things no tv, no bbq we leave home to get away from it all.

I do use wd bars now as a added precaution now that I have the van following along nicely bars alone would never of fixed the loose back end of the ute.

-- Edited by Radar on Thursday 7th of July 2016 10:52:45 PM

Phil C · Guru

Gday folks,

When we bought our van, which we live in 24/7, I made the decision that it will be towed in the safest possible manner (I dont want to wreck our home).

I had the van fitted with ESC (Electronic Stability Control from Al-Ko) and a medium duty WDH. If you do the 110KMPH open road limit then 1. I think you are crazy and 2. the van will wobble about like a jelly if the load isnt exact. So your intended speed is a big factor in what safety bits you add.

Now we can discuss the merit or otherwise of these expensive devices, BUT at the end of the day a question must be asked.

HOW SAFE DO YOU FEEL WITHOUT THESE SAFETY DEVICES?

Happy travels folks.

brickies · Guru

Phil you are spot on I have towed without WDH and with them and found the advantage more so on bendy roads

Mutley · Senior Member

Desert Dweller wrote:
kezngaz wrote:
THANKS FOR THE REPLIES GUYS.
Surely if your vans ball weight is under the specs of the allowable by the tugs manufacturer, then the tug shouldnt be nose up n ar$e down?
When be bpught the van, it came with the remainder of a hayman reece wdh, and not the shank for the tug.
Was wondering weather it was worth purchasing the shank or not.
Our set up sits pretty level when loaded for long weekends and havent really loaded her up yet.
The van has a ball load of 250kg and the tug is rated at 280kg,we also use scales every time to ensure we dont exceed the 250kg, albeit very close!!
That's exactly why we don't use or need a WDH. Our Navara is rated at 2800kg towing capacity with a maximum ball weight if 250kg.
Our van weighs 1600kg fully loaded & the ball weight is 150kg. The whole rig sits dead level & when driving over bumpy pot-holed roads it doesn't ''pitch'' front to rear.
50,000kms of ''smooth sailing'' over all sorts of terrain in all sorts of weather in 4+ years without a WDH tells the story.
Some people ''freak out'' when they see a rig without a WDH! Idi*ts!
There are certain things involved with RVing that go standard with the lifestyle. If you don't cook on a Baby Q you're not cooking at all, same goes for WDH's. People tend to blindly
follow one another without looking at alternatives.

I suspect that therein lies the crux of the difference of opinion! We too have a Navara. We also have a Pajero - they are chalk & cheese in every aspect, especially towing! I wouldn't need a WDH towing a well designed, well loaded van up to towing capacity with the Navara, the suspension out of the factory is VERY stiff. BUT........... I definitely would with the Paj! I imagine most other cars with soft suspension like the Paj would be similar?

PS: the ride in the Paj is much more comfortable than the Navara, but the Navara shines in other ways!

Plain Truth · Guru

Mutley is right,some setups need a WDH. and some don't.It is up to each person to set their rig up to what is correct and comfortable for them.Not to preach and tell others yes you do need one or no you don't.

As for saying you need a WDH because you carry a Baby Q.because of the extra weight.What can one say I am speechless.

Why can't people stop picking on what other vanners do.

If everyone did the same thing how boring it would be,we would all be driving the same tug towing the same van and going to the same places.

Live and let live, and enjoy what you have, end of rant

Vince · Senior Member

Kezngaz, The Pro, our using WDH is it has negated see-saw action hugely.

Our van is tandem laden 2.3T, connected the tug drops 20mm in the rear end - 180Kg Ball weight. I have 500kg constant load springs

Without - Con, the see-saw action on road is uncomfortable

The van is loaded even over the axles, I put it down to the conditions our roads are in.

Cheers

Vince

vbc1_75 · Member

Desert Dweller wrote:
kezngaz wrote:

If you don't cook on a Baby Q you're not cooking at all, same goes for WDH's. People tend to blindly
follow one another without looking at alternatives.

i think you are right, many simply follow the masses without trying alternatives and then defend their purchase. For the record I use a WDH on a 200 cruiser towing 2t single axle van purely because it helps negate the see saw effect. Pretty sure the steel roo bar counter weights the van so its not about adding weight to the front wheels. I wonder how many consider that aspect. Even if you install a lift in the front to deal with the weight of the bar, it's still countering any weight on the tow ball.

Don't start me on Webbers

-- Edited by vbc1_75 on Sunday 10th of July 2016 10:03:14 PM

Radar · Guru

This discussion has become interesting with some others joining in giving thre point of view.

Just great.