QUESTION ON C'VAN ATM

Dougwe · Chief one feather

QUESTION ON C'VAN ATM

Hewy54 · Senior Member

I find it easiest to do two visits to the weighbridge.
First the car with me in it to get the GVM of the car.
Then hitch up and weigh the car with the van attached. This then gives me the ball weight.
Then move forward to weigh just the van.
This gives the weight of the van less the ball weight.

PeterD · Guru

Dougwe wrote:
If I have the van connected to car and put van only on weighbridge still connected to car that is off the weighbridge does that give me a accurate ATM of the van?? My mind is saying it will be accurate enough.

In a word - NO. You can not weigh the ATM.

AGGREGATE TRAILER MASS (ATM) - the total mass of the laden trailer when
carrying the maximum load recommended by the 'Manufacturer'. This will
include any mass imposed onto the drawing vehicle when the 'Combination
Vehicle' is resting on a horizontal supporting plane.

You find the ATM by reading the figure on your compliance plate. When you weigh the van whilst the van is hitched to the tug you only weigh the axle weight. When you unhitch the van you weigh the total weight of the van.

Vince · Senior Member

Hi Doug

I see you have a time restraint using the weighbidge, I too had the same issue of using a busy one too.
So what I did was went and had the combination weighed then went home dropped the van off and went back and had the tug weighed

I then did the ball weight of the van using the weigh scale back at home on level ground.

I have:- A reasonable measure of weight

Van Weight - Gas Bottles and water tanks full and gear loaded we take with us

Tug Weight - Loaded with gear we take minus the Mrs (add X kg)

Combination Weight - Van & Tug Loaded

Tow Ball Weight - Van Loaded

All done day before we left on our March trip

I am lucky in that the weighbridge is only 6Km away and they charged me $30 to do both weights.

Good to hear the Collie came up good.

Cheers
Vince

-- Edited by Vince on Monday 29th of August 2016 04:43:59 PM

-- Edited by Vince on Monday 29th of August 2016 07:48:31 PM

Tony Bev · Guru

Hello Dougwe

Your quote
If I have the van connected to car and put van only on weighbridge still connected to car that is off the weighbridge does that give me a accurate ATM of the van?? My mind is saying it will be accurate enough.
Unquote

I will stick my neck out and say, yes you are correct, the weight should be close enough, for most of us non technical folks

Technically, it will be the ATM of the fully loaded caravan, minus the tow ball weight

As Vince has already said, it is easy to get your tow ball weight at home

Hewy54 · Senior Member

ATM is the combined weight of the trailer and its full load when it is not coupled to a tow vehicle. GTM is the weight of the fully loaded trailer imposed on the trailers axle when it is coupled to the tow vehicle. GTM will always be less than ATM as some of the trailer weight is transferred to the tow vehicle when the trailer is coupled to it.
This is the quote from the RACQ.
The TARE and ATM are stamped on your compliance plate. The ATM is the value that you should not exceed.
Gross Vehicle Mass (GVM) or Weight (GVW)
This is the maximum your vehicle can weigh when fully loaded as specified by the manufacturer. You will usually find this GVM figure on the vehicle's weight placard (generally found in the driver's door opening) or in the owner's manual. So GVM is the Kerb Mass plus driver, passengers, luggage, pet dog, esky, tool kit and whatever else you're taking with you. And if you're towing something, GVM also includes the Tow Ball Download.
For your towing vehicle the GVM is nit to be exceeded.

Tare weights are a theoretical value of unladen car/van and in my opinion are pretty well a waste of time as you are never sure of what has been included.

Load your tow vehicle up with everything you take away then take it to the weighbridge. This will tell you you the vehicle mass (less your towball weight)
Then hitch up your van and take it back to the weighbridge.
Drive our car onto the scales (all 4 wheels ) and this will now tell you if you are within the GVM.
Subtract the previous amount and you will have your towball weight.
Now drive forward so that only the van wheels are on the scales.
This gives the actual GTM. Add on the towball weight and this amount should not exceed the ATM on the compliance plate.

PeterD · Guru

I see there are a lot of bloody slow learners on this forum. You can not weigh the ATM, GTM, GCM, GVM or any other limit. How many of you have measured the speed limit of the road you are travelling on? ATM, GTM, GCM, GVM and speed limits are just limits, YOU CAN NOT MEASURE THEM.

ATM, GTM, GCM, GVM are limits that are stamped on compliance plates. The only way these will vary is if some authority declares new ones and they are posted on a new plate.

How about you blokes go back and edit your replies so they make sense.

Hewy54's last reply is the only is the only one that makes sense.

-- Edited by PeterD on Monday 29th of August 2016 06:03:35 PM

-- Edited by PeterD on Monday 29th of August 2016 06:05:05 PM

Dick0 · Guru

PeterD wrote:
I see there are a lot of bloody slow learners on this forum. You can not weigh the ATM, GTM, GCM, GVM or any other limit. How many of you have measured the speed limit of the road you are travelling on? ATM, GTM, GCM, GVM and speed limits are just limits, YOU CAN NOT MEASURE THEM.

ATM, GTM, GCM, GVM are limits that are stamped on compliance plates. The only way these will vary is if some authority declares new ones and they are posted on a new plate.

How about you blokes go back and edit your replies so they make sense.
Hewy54's last reply is the only is the only one that makes sense.

Yes, PeterD, some of us are bloody slow learners when it comes to deciphering technical jargon and some of us prefer simple, non technical replies, if at all possible. I am still trying to work this weights issue out...as you will see by my newer post about weights.
Thanks, anyway,

-- Edited by PeterD on Monday 29th of August 2016 06:03:35 PM

-- Edited by PeterD on Monday 29th of August 2016 06:05:05 PM

Dick0 · Guru

Hewy54 wrote:
ATM is the combined weight of the trailer and its full load when it is not coupled to a tow vehicle. GTM is the weight of the fully loaded trailer imposed on the trailers axle when it is coupled to the tow vehicle. GTM will always be less than ATM as some of the trailer weight is transferred to the tow vehicle when the trailer is coupled to it.
This is the quote from the RACQ.
The TARE and ATM are stamped on your compliance plate. The ATM is the value that you should not exceed.
Gross Vehicle Mass (GVM) or Weight (GVW)
This is the maximum your vehicle can weigh when fully loaded as specified by the manufacturer. You will usually find this GVM figure on the vehicle's weight placard (generally found in the driver's door opening) or in the owner's manual. So GVM is the Kerb Mass plus driver, passengers, luggage, pet dog, esky, tool kit and whatever else you're taking with you. And if you're towing something, GVM also includes the Tow Ball Download.
For your towing vehicle the GVM is nit to be exceeded.

Tare weights are a theoretical value of unladen car/van and in my opinion are pretty well a waste of time as you are never sure of what has been included.

Load your tow vehicle up with everything you take away then take it to the weighbridge. This will tell you you the vehicle mass (less your towball weight)
Then hitch up your van and take it back to the weighbridge.
Drive our car onto the scales (all 4 wheels ) and this will now tell you if you are within the GVM.
Subtract the previous amount and you will have your towball weight.
Now drive forward so that only the van wheels are on the scales.
This gives the actual GTM. Add on the towball weight and this amount should not exceed the ATM on the compliance plate.

Thanks, Hewy54, for the clear and concise explanation provided, much appreciated.

Tony Bev · Guru

Tony Bev wrote:
Hello Dougwe

Your quote
If I have the van connected to car and put van only on weighbridge still connected to car that is off the weighbridge does that give me a accurate ATM of the van?? My mind is saying it will be accurate enough.
Unquote

I will stick my neck out and say, yes you are correct, the weight should be close enough, for most of us non technical folks

Technically, it will be the ATM of the fully loaded caravan, minus the tow ball weight

As Vince has already said, it is easy to get your tow ball weight at home

Edited just to clarify that what I have said is close enough for us non technical people

"ATM is the most your caravan can weigh, with everything in and on it, as it stands, unhitched.
It is the weight that each wheel and the jockey wheel impose on the ground all added together, at the very most."

The above was taken from this website

Therefore in my opinion, the weight of the loaded caravan, still connected to the car, but with the car not on the weighbridge, will be the ATM of the caravan, minus the ball weight.

By obtaining the ball weight later on, and adding it to the weight you already have, will give the ATM of the caravan

Or perhaps I should say, it will give you a weight, which you can compare to the ATM weight which is stamped on a plate, attached to the caravan, to see if you are overweight

-- Edited by Tony Bev on Monday 29th of August 2016 07:07:42 PM

iana · Guru

Dougwe you started this :- off to the naughty corner with you. (I love this sort of thing), the next one is going to be "do you lubricate your stud" (torque).

Vince · Senior Member

PeterD wrote:
How about you blokes go back and edit your replies so they make sense.

-- Edited by PeterD on Monday 29th of August 2016 06:03:35 PM

-- Edited by PeterD on Monday 29th of August 2016 06:05:05 PM

Edited

Hope that helps as to how I did it.

Dougwe · Chief one feather

Thanks each and every one of you for the replies. I had a pretty good idea of what I am doing but thought I might ask the question on here as it also might help others.
Now. I am aware of the weights on the compliance plate are the max's allowed. I am trying to make sure I am actually UNDER those weights listed.

I have the Collie all under control now and have the tow ball weight of the van so after I weigh the van I will add the TBW and I will then know If all is under or over with the van. And adjust if needed but I think the van will be fine too.

I read a comment from 'Radar' that the powers to be weigh both so will know all that weight too.

It's a good process to go through.

-- Edited by Dougwe on Monday 29th of August 2016 08:00:16 PM

Dougwe · Chief one feather

iana wrote:
Dougwe you started this :- off to the naughty corner with you. (I love this sort of thing), the next one is going to be "do you lubricate your stud" (torque).

Sorry mate, I hang my head in shame as I enter the naughty room.

Woody n Sue · Guru

For the purpose of what Doug was trying to find out if he weighs the tug on its own as he did, if he then returns with his den in tow and weighs the tug as it gets on the bridge but before the den gets on the difference in his tug weights will give him his tow ball weigh then proceed to weigh the tug and den together he can then subtract the tug weight from the total and the result will be his den weight.
Simple .
And if the bloke on the weigh bridge is looking and asked too, he could also give Doug his front axel weight and so he could work out the weight of every axel on his rig which is what he should be aware of as each has its own max allowable weight, and if mr plod ever weighs him axel by axel which they will eventually do, he will be informed and be able to redistribute his weight to where it needs to be
Easy peasy
Is that clearer enough for you Chief

Woody

Hewy54 · Senior Member

Hey Woody.
Great minds think alike.
If you look back about 8 posts I think I said the same thing.
Good thought about the individual axle weights.

Dougwe · Chief one feather

I already have the front axle weight of tug guys. All good, hey. Am I on the ball or what!

Woody n Sue · Guru

Yep pretty much Hewy54 just trying to simplify it without that ATM Sh.t in my Tiny mind there is only GVM ,gross Vehicle mass (the tug ) ,,GTM,,Gross Trailer Mass (the caravan ) and GCM Gross Combined Mass (the total weight of the entire rig ) . Having come from a truck background when talking weights .

Smarter than the average bear Doug smarter than the average bear .

Woody

MICKO · Member

I have attached a file that explains it all mate

Micko

Dougwe · Chief one feather

Well, the car and van, connected, went on the weighbridge earlier today and after adding the tow ball weight to the van, that I checked before connecting to car, the van has come in 30kg OVER the ATM on the compliance plate. Bugga.

Your thoughts???????

With the Collie coming in under all weights I can transfer 30kg to it I spose. Double bugga.

The combined weight of both car and van is under though so at least that is good. How tough are these powers to be out on the road?

ken thomas · Guru

just put a couple of wine casks from under the bed back into the collie, and you will be all right
Also for the benefit of Glenlg
Ken

Dick0 · Guru

Having been previously confused about weights and the technical jargon, all the posts here have very much clarified the confusion with simple, no nonsense explanations. And the various options and order to weighing are fantastic! smile

PeterInSa · Guru

Re (the van has come in 30kg OVER the ATM on the compliance plate. Bugga.

Your thoughts???????)

Half empty 1, 66lt water tank to reduce by 30kg.

Peter

Dougwe · Chief one feather

Thanks Peter. If it was only that easy mate. I am one that doesn't travel with water in tanks due to the weight situation but I thought I was on top of it. I do carry 2×10 lt containers with fresh water in van but will transfer to car. My big camera back pack is 8kg so that to will also go in car. I found another 8kg that could go in car and the heavy jockey wheel can go in car. As I said the car is under in all ways so plenty of room.

Cruising Cruze · Guru

Hi Doug

Is it maybe possible to get your compliance plate adjusted ???
the collie would not notice any difference

Cheers John

Radar · Guru

Dougwe wrote:
Well, the car and van, connected, went on the weighbridge earlier today and after adding the tow ball weight to the van, that I checked before connecting to car, the van has come in 30kg OVER the ATM on the compliance plate. Bugga.

Your thoughts???????

With the Collie coming in under all weights I can transfer 30kg to it I spose. Double bugga.

The combined weight of both car and van is under though so at least that is good. How tough are these powers to be out on the road?

Hi Dougwe

For the less knowledgeable, could you draw a diagram showing your weighs please.

From my experience authority likes to keep booking simple eg love it when they get you for 100kilos over on a group of axles because anything more will cause them more drama and paper work.

Moorey · Senior Member

Doug Maybe your weight problem has to do with the possibility you have too many 1.5 inch Angus Rib Steak cuts that you are trying to sneak out of QLD.

Angus Beef.jpg

Moorey

Bill B · Guru

Cruising Cruze wrote:

Hi Doug

Is it maybe possible to get your compliance plate adjusted ???

the collie would not notice any difference

Cheers John

Then you could even put some water in your tanks.

Woody n Sue · Guru

Sounds like you are getting it sorted Doug dunworkin is onto it .
However if the compliance plate can indeed be lifted to cover your predicament would be OK too, but and there is always a but, firstly slowly get down on your knees and have a look at the van tyres while wearing your reading glasses and find the weight that each tyre is allowed to carry and make sure that they are not already up to their max weight, because if mr plod is doing his job right he will look at that too. And remember regularly check the air preasure in your tyres after all it is the air that is carrying the weight not the tyre it's just there to keep the air in and make contact with the ground .

Go To the top of the class mate

Woody

Dougwe · Chief one feather

Radar wrote:
Dougwe wrote:
Well, the car and van, connected, went on the weighbridge earlier today and after adding the tow ball weight to the van, that I checked before connecting to car, the van has come in 30kg OVER the ATM on the compliance plate. Bugga.

Your thoughts???????

With the Collie coming in under all weights I can transfer 30kg to it I spose. Double bugga.

The combined weight of both car and van is under though so at least that is good. How tough are these powers to be out on the road?
Hi Dougwe
For the less knowledgeable, could you draw a diagram showing your weighs please.
From my experience authority likes to keep booking simple eg love it when they get you for 100kilos over on a group of axles because anything more will cause them more drama and paper work.

I hope this is what you want Radar? It's taken me ages to download this due to poor Internet cover at the mo.