Hard wiring power outlets

sarg · Guru

Hard wiring power outlets

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

The licenced electrician that does the work will know what wire to use. Not only that, but he will have a roll.
You may not legally do it yourself.

Cheers,
Peter

macka17 · Guru

You have to ask those questions.

DON'T do it.

240 kills.

Plus as said.
it's illegal. Reg'd sparky only...

Weedpharma · Veteran Member

If you don't know what you are doing, don't do it. You could harm others as well as yourself.

Weedpharma

elliemike · Guru

Weedpharma wrote:
If you don't know what you are doing, don't do it. You could harm others as well as yourself.

Weedpharma

Amen to that.

Remember about five years ago, over hearing a customer in the "12 volt shop telling of his mate who had wired his new fridge in. He always did his own wiring 240 and 12 volt, nothing to it.

They, ( travelling together,) left home (Perth) and only got to Pierce RAAF base just north of Perth. He noticed smoke from his mates van in front. But could not stop him. A truck coming the opposite way stopped him as the Van was well alight by then. Total Loss. Undersized wiring was the cause of the fire and the insurance co was not impressed.

And that was only 12v. You wonder what his 240 volt wiring was like

iana · Guru

Just a thought though, Jayco use a pre-wired system, all the wiring comes with plugs on it, like extension leads, and they mate with sockets in the wall sockets (if that makes sense), so no wiring required. Just fit the wall sockets and plug in the wiring, expensive but easy pezzy.

robol · Veteran Member

Caravans plus. ( DIY 240V kit )
But I used an Electrician for 240v.
Cheers Rob.

sarg · Guru

Thank you all for the responses that I expected !!
So much for all your technical knowledge in this area guys. A straight forward question and not one straight answer.
I would have thought that someone might have given the right answer to a simple question on this subject so that people would know what to do.
A lot of people can do the preliminary work and have it all ready for certification from a licenced electrician.
By all means, give a general warning that any electrical work (240v) needs and must be signed off by a licenced electrician but come on guys, the initial work of running the wiring is the part that can be done by anyone. Cheers.

Big Gorilla · Guru

There is a good reason for not giving you a straight answer !!! If you intend to have a Licensed Electrician complete the work and sign off on it, ask the Electrician you intend to employ this question. I don't see any problem in running the cable of the correct size, but connecting power point fittings, light switches and lights is a no no !!

Dougwe · Chief one feather

sarg wrote:
Thank you all for the responses that I expected !!
So much for all your technical knowledge in this area guys. A straight forward question and not one straight answer.
I would have thought that someone might have given the right answer to a simple question on this subject so that people would know what to do.
A lot of people can do the preliminary work and have it all ready for certification from a licenced electrician.
By all means, give a general warning that any electrical work (240v) needs and must be signed off by a licenced electrician but come on guys, the initial work of running the wiring is the part that can be done by anyone. Cheers.

Just a thought on my part Ian. I think most people steer clear of the advise or information you asked due to 'IF' something was to go wrong down the track it could be discovered their information was wrong and caused your problem. The law could come down on them. I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN THOUGH.

robol · Veteran Member

This is what the electrician told me to buy for use in my bus. ( Flex Cable 2C+E 2.5mm2 50/0.25mm PVC Flex 250/440v O/Duty Grey Sheath ), as taken from the receipt. This was also run inside another plastic flex for added protection against wear, due to vibration when travelling. The installation also included the fitting of both RCD and RVD Breakers.

Good Luck Rob.

WAssa41 · Senior Member

Sarg, If you know a electrician he may let you lay out the wiring for your caravan (which you are allowed to do) he will then check it, fit plugs etc test and issue a cert. I did the wiring of our house extension with out any problem, all you are doing is being the electricians laborer. If you look at some of the building sites you will see laborers laying out the wires.

Wassa

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

It's not just the wire size . It's polarity and earth protection if things go wrong . Yes ruff it in . But for heavens sake get it checked . Even licences sparkles have to put in a Notification to elect supply companies to have their work checked . Trust me they even make mistakes !! Don't use single strand wire ..

Weedpharma · Veteran Member

sarg wrote:
Thank you all for the responses that I expected !!
So much for all your technical knowledge in this area guys. A straight forward question and not one straight answer.
I would have thought that someone might have given the right answer to a simple question on this subject so that people would know what to do.
A lot of people can do the preliminary work and have it all ready for certification from a licenced electrician.
By all means, give a general warning that any electrical work (240v) needs and must be signed off by a licenced electrician but come on guys, the initial work of running the wiring is the part that can be done by anyone. Cheers.

Sarg, I want to remove part of someone's brain. How do I do it?

Another simple, straight forward question. Give me an answer that will allow me to do it safely and I promise not to sue you.

weedpharma

macka17 · Guru

240v Electricity is one thing you DON'T play with.

Cable type. Dia, sheathing. type of safety sw. trip outs.
Too much involved.

IF You KNOW what cable to lay and where to place ancilliaries. AND which to use.
and know HOW to wire in correctly.
Fine. Go ahead.

But. somebody that asks the original question
is somebody either f---g about.
or with little knowledge.

Leave it to somebody who knows and can do it correctly and safely.

There's too much can go wrong. Both now and later.

PS. A Sparky's TA. is given the materials to lay and set up.
But after, he's been given some training and instruction on which and how.

By the tradesman that employs and trains him.

Not just a blow in off the street. (Us. Mostly)

-- Edited by macka17 on Saturday 10th of September 2016 05:58:30 PM

oldtrack123 · Guru

macka17 wrote:
240v Electricity is one thing you DON'T play with.

Cable type. Dia, sheathing. type of safety sw. trip outs.
Too much involved.

IF You KNOW what cable to lay and where to place ancilliaries. AND which to use.
and know HOW to wire in correctly.
Fine. Go ahead.

But. somebody that asks the original question
is somebody either f---g about.
or with little knowledge.

Leave it to somebody who knows and can do it correctly and safely.

There's too much can go wrong. Both now and later.

PS. A Sparky's TA. is given the materials to lay and set up.
But after, he's been given some training and instruction on which and how.
By the tradesman that employs and trains him.

Not just a blow in off the street. (Us. Mostly)

-- Edited by macka17 on Saturday 10th of September 2016 05:58:30 PM

Yes Macka

SUPERVISED BY A LICENSED TRADESMAN ,who takes full responsibility for the finished job

He issues a compliance certificate with all his details ,including his electrical license number. Job can be traced back to him if /when something goes wrong ,especially if due to faulty workmanship ,failure to follow rules ,etc

The TA/s work is limited to the hard labour

Such as pulling cables under supervision, trenching, laying conduits /ducting etc

No wiring, No fitting OFF,etc.

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Saturday 10th of September 2016 10:17:03 PM

oldtrack123 · Guru

Sarge If you think that this is correct

Quote"A lot of people can do the preliminary work and have it all ready for certification from a licenced electrician.
By all means, give a general warning that any electrical work (240v) needs and must be signed off by a licenced electrician but come on guys, the initial work of running the wiring is the part that can be done by anyone. Cheers.""

You are in for a BIG shock
I suggest you ask your local ESO ,electrical safety office ,or its equivalent in your state if YOU can do such wiring!!!!!
That way you will get the real answer, not the advice of some would be
You could also do a bit of real researching on what comprises LICENSED electrical work by googling & reading the ELECTRICAL ACTS & REGULATIONS FOR YOUR STATE
You will find it a looong read & probably have trouble even understanding the terminology!!

Weedpharma · Veteran Member

My understanding is that only work directly supervised (actually present at the time) can can be done by non licensed persons.

Weedpharma

oldtrack123 · Guru

Weedpharma wrote:
My understanding is that only work directly supervised (actually present at the time) can can be done by non licensed persons.

Weedpharma

Yes

kezngaz · Senior Member

I didnt think the electrics on a van were certified?
I have a stamped plate for the gas but cannot find anything for the electric....
Is this normal?
TIA Kezngaz.

macka17 · Guru

THe primary thing here.
Is KNOWING. and Installing minimum recommended wiring.
that the law specify's...Along with the ancillaries.

Same as installing cable inside walls.
And fastenings going through it afterwards. etc.

The next staple or screw through a live wire.
12v and/or mains.
won't be the first, or last.

The cost of a tradie and having it done right.
is minimal,
compared to any compensation/negligence claim afterwards.

H/Duty 12v Yes. I've done a lot of that.
But never in last 25/30yrs any mains wiring.

Both Spec's and rules on 240v are far too complex to play with
if you have any repercussions.

Doing it yourself. In this case.

really IS false and possibly dangerous economy..

-- Edited by macka17 on Sunday 11th of September 2016 03:22:45 PM

oldtrack123 · Guru

kezngaz wrote:
I didnt think the electrics on a van were certified?
I have a stamped plate for the gas but cannot find anything for the electric....
Is this normal?
TIA Kezngaz.

Hi

You should have asked for & received an Electrical Test Certificate or similar ,depending on the state where the van was made!If It was a Victorian made van such is required to be submitted to the ESO VIc before it is registered.

Other States are a little slacker

But All States' Elect Acts & Regulations stipulate that only approved devices shall be used on "Low Voltage"[any AC voltage above 50V]

With Vans which are individually made with many variations ,that means EVERY van should be inspected & tested & issued with the compliance /test cert. just as with every house, factory ,shed , etc which has a 240V installation

Phil C · Guru

Simple answer. Been said a zillion times in here. LICENCED ELECTRICIAN. Please don't mess with installing flex from Bunnings there is only a few approved cable types for instal with 240V.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but better than being dead. BTW I believe any instal MUST be done by a licensed installer or trainee (apprentice) under supervision and signed off with a COC.

Please don't mess with 240V it's a killer.

rrobor · Veteran Member

I find Australia to be the most regulated country when it comes to electricity. In the USA you can get that info no probs. Here all you get is feathers ruffled. Idiots will wire it up as idiots do. Sarg asks, so is trying to do it correctly. Get a certificate? get real. Ask for that and its triple price. What he is doing is a glorified extension cord, not much more. Ok he may be going through steel so has to protect the wire, but hay, just lets not talk like its rocket science. Rob

oldtrack123 · Guru

rrobor wrote:
I find Australia to be the most regulated country when it comes to electricity. In the USA you can get that info no probs. Here all you get is feathers ruffled. Idiots will wire it up as idiots do. Sarg asks, so is trying to do it correctly. Get a certificate? get real. Ask for that and its triple price. What he is doing is a glorified extension cord, not much more. Ok he may be going through steel so has to protect the wire, but hay, just lets not talk like its rocket science. Rob

confuse

Well we are not the USA, YET , Thank GOD smile

IF Sarge wants to do it right he should do what licensed ELECTRICIANS have to do . BUY the relevant Standards "Australian wiring rules" & 'Transportable Structures & their power supplies"" then read all very carefully!!!

It MAY then comply with AuS standards, even though it will still not be approved for connection to any low voltage system!!!
,
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Wednesday 14th of September 2016 11:03:48 PM

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Wednesday 14th of September 2016 11:11:46 PM

PeterD · Guru

rrobor wrote:
I find Australia to be the most regulated country when it comes to electricity. In the USA you can get that info no probs.

Yes, and their operating voltage is less than half that of ours. That makes a very big difference.

rrobor · Veteran Member

I knew some little red hen would come and tell us the sky would fall down. And the point about voltage, please get facts correct. If voltage killed we would have long since eradicated birds that sit on power lines. It is current that kills, and if you half the voltage you must double the current to achieve the same power. Simple Ohms law. So no USA at 110 v is far more dangerous than our 240V. And yes there are several other reasons I'm not going to get into, but if you feel inclined look it up.

Australia was born into the modern age with the spirit of make do. Tied together with fence wire, built out of bits on hand. Loose that and get tied up in red tape and Australia will become like the UK, a tired old country needing a good shake. Rob

hako · Guru

I found the following on another forum where someone asked some electrical questions regarding consequences of DIY electrical work:

I work in the insurance industry not for a general insurer but I know lots of people who do. I asked them about this at lunch.

XXXX writes...
insurance/fire brigades/whatever manages to pinpoint the fire to have generated from the "unlawfully" installed power point..

how do they tell if it was installed by a licensed contractor or not?

They have no way they can. Unless you tell them. No one has ever hear of anyone ever trying to check work was done by an appropriately licensed professional in a home claim.

if you get a sparky come to your place, are you required by law to keep his details and a receipt and/or certificate of compliance?

Nope. No requirement for you to even try and remember who it was. You just have to have reasonably believed they where licensed. This makes it almost impossible to check.

If said receipt/certificate gets destroyed/lost and you have no proof, would the insurance company reject a claim?

If they did it wouldn't stand up in court. The onus would be on the insurer to prove you did the wrong thing or that a "reasonable person" would not have done what the insurer can prove you did.

I'm not saying that people should play around with electricity without knowing what they're doing...

I'd agree there. The type of insurance I work in (Life) makes payments more often than I would have thought for people who are careless with electricity. Doesn't bring the people back though.

PeterD · Guru

rrobor wrote:
1.. If voltage killed we would have long since eradicated birds that sit on power lines.
2.. It is current that kills, and if you half the voltage you must double the current to achieve the same power.
3.. Simple Ohms law.

You seem to have little appreciation of electricity.

1.. It may be current that kills you. However if you don't have enough voltage to drive the current then there will be insufficient current flowing to effect you. 120 V is down near the safe level where you can let unlicensed people work with it.

2.. Yes it's current that kills. However if you follow your logic then a battery has enough power to kill you so it would be lethal.

3.. Ohms law quantifies the amount of current a given potential difference will drive through a given resistance. If you had a full appreciation of the subject you would realise that 120 V is down near the potential where the body will not receive enough current to kill. If you were any wise switched on with the subjects of electricity you would not have made such a silly post.

Weedpharma · Veteran Member

rrobor wrote:
I knew some little red hen would come and tell us the sky would fall down. And the point about voltage, please get facts correct. If voltage killed we would have long since eradicated birds that sit on power lines. It is current that kills, and if you half the voltage you must double the current to achieve the same power. Simple Ohms law. So no USA at 110 v is far more dangerous than our 240V.

Rob, you prove that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Birds on a wire survive due to the simple fact that there is no current path.

It requires voltage to make current flow but the amount depends on the load. A human body has the same R for 240v or 120v. Therefore the current for 240v will be double that of 120v, not as you suggest. Simple Ohm's law used correctly.

Weedpharma