Coop, just done mine, on one side the winder was worn out, it would not work ,they only have plastic cogs inside so they can not be fixed (throwaways) about $25 each (replaced both).yes they will leak as there is very little sealing between winder and frame on the inside, I used silicone when I put them back. To start you need to lift front window and its cover up as high as it will go, otherwise you just cant get into the Two Philips head screws holding the winder to the frame on the outside, I used a ladder and rope to pull and hold the cover and window up while I was working on the winders, worked well, (disconnect gas struts), pull fly mesh back a bit, then you will see the small Philips head screw one right at the top and one at the bottom of the winder about 6mm long they are, you probably wont need to take the pop rivet out of the arm although that is not hard to do, just need to drill out 4mm pop rivet on the end,You should be able to just pull winder body to the inside once screws are out and then apply sealer, and then screw them back in, all done, so all up a bit fiddly but not really hard to do.
Hope this helps
Don

 Having just been through this exercise to cure a similar leak. It seems to me that sealing the inside of the winder box is closing the stable door. The water is coming through or past the window to get in there in the first place. Only three places that I thought it can get in that I could see. 1 Past the sealing foam tape that seals the window to the caravan skin. 2 Through the pop rivet that holds the winder arm  to the the black plastic cover on outside of window or where this link box seals to window frame. 3 Past the weather strip around the out side edge of window but would only occur if travelling or windy to blow the water in.

So much for theory I fixed all these and still had a leak in about the same place. Turned out to be a badly made window that was short on one side allowing easy ingress into the van. I had not put the window cover back on at this stage as I was repairing that as well other wise it would not have shown up.

Alan

-- Edited by Brenda and Alan on Monday 17th of October 2016 09:29:19 AM

here is pic of winder looking at it from the frame side, you will notice the box is sealed except for the slot that the arm moves up and down in, the water will go in here and come out of the small hole at the bottom (theres a hole in frame also) make sure you don't block the hole with sealer, you can also see whats left of the sealing tape

Don

-- Edited by DonVicki on Monday 17th of October 2016 12:41:04 PM

-- Edited by DonVicki on Monday 17th of October 2016 12:43:01 PM

Don that slot is inboard of the weather seal so if the window is closed the water must come in as in items 2 or 3 of my earlier post. The sealing of the winder to the window in itself is not preventing water getting to the inside of the window.

Alan

Got the window cover opened as far as it would go, opened the window to the maximum and examined the situation.
Identified the screws that I would need to remove to take out the mechanism and noted how difficult it would be to get at the top one.
Noted that the water needed to get past the window seal before it could enter the slot, and if this seal was doing its job properly, then there would be no leak.
Considering that this window is one that we were rarely likely to open, I figured that a good seal down the edge of the window is all that would be needed to stop the leak. However, we still needed to allow for the window to be opened if it was needed at some time in the future.

I decided to see if I could improve the seal. I wiped the outside of the frame with silicone lubricant (which would limit the adhesion of the silicone sealant) but left the rubber seal on the window itself clean. I then extruded a bead of silicone down the side of the window frame and closed the window on it.

The aim is to have the silicone sealant adhere to the rubber seal, but still detach from the window frame if we ever need to open the window.

I should know within a day or two if I have cured the leak. More rain is forecast.
I guess I'll find out if I can open the window again when (if) the need arises.

Thanks for your assistance, folks. I'll save your replies for future reference if I need to go further and replace the mechanism.
Cheers

C00P

Some great info there Peter, never thought of looking there!

Thanks for the help. Will be useful if my first attempt fails.
Regards

C00P

Well, the silicone sealant on the dust seal made no difference, the water still gets in. Can't see how it does- the window has an outer cover as well as its own seals.
The next move will be to follow Don's instructions and remove the winder bodies and seal them. The winders still work, although they are a bit "lumpy" in their operation so probably have some teeth missing from the cogs. I'll have a go at it tomorrow when there is no rain forecast.

Cheers

C00P

-- Edited by C00P on Tuesday 18th of October 2016 10:37:52 AM

Thanks Don. I am considering replacing them, as soon as I can get them out. They certainly don't turn smoothly.

The outer cover does not lift up far enough to give sufficient access to the screws that retain the winder, so I'll have to remove the outer cover by tapping it sideways out of its hinge. I may also have to drill out the rivets in the operating arms so I can raise the window enough to remove the top screws.

Given I have to go to all that trouble, I might as well replace the winders while I am at it. I may also replace the dust seal as it has probably hardened over the years and I doubt it seals all that well. I think I can do this without removing the window itself.

Hoping to get it all done in one day, as soon as I have the parts on hand.

Cheers

 

Coop

 

-- Edited by C00P on Tuesday 18th of October 2016 08:32:16 PM

Thanks Alan,

I got hold of a pair of new winders today and replaced the old ones. Discovered from one of the local techies that one source of the leaks is at the rivet that attaches the wind-out arm to the window frame (via the black fittings). Seems the water wicks in past the rivet and/or fittings and weeps down the arm into the winder body and then out the bottom into the van, so sealing at this point is important. Tried to get some new dust seal, but nobody local carries it (including Clark rubber) and it's not in Caravan Plus's catalogue. (It's profile is like a tube with a "T" attached- see pic.  Have sent them an email to see if they can obtain it. If I can't get it I may replace it with some self-adhesive closed-cell foam (assuming I can get it in a narrow enough gauge).

It all went smoothly enough. Just have to replace the rivets and then the top cover tomorrow and await the next dose of rain to see if we have achieved anything! At least the window now opens smoothly. Drilling out the rivet heads was an exercise in patience- found that the drill bit tended to go off to one side and the rivet would turn, but by angling the drill bit towards the part of the head with the most meat it reduced the tendency for the rivet to turn and allowed the head to get chewed off.

Cheers

 

C00P

 

Thanks Alan. I actually temporarily sealed that side of the window (the part that moves) to the window frame with silicone sealant to test that theory and it made no difference, so the water is getting in elsewhere.

I hadn't thought of it getting in between the window frame and the hole in the van wall. It appears to be well sealed, but to eliminate this possibility I have cleaned all around the frame and run a bead of sealant across the top and down both sides. Thank you for that suggestion.

If what I have done so far doesn't work, then it really only leaves the dust seal, and in that case I'll contact that Victorian company and replace the seal with foam tape.

The van is not that old (it's a Humpback, built in 2010) so I wouldn't have expected the seals to be obsolete!

Thanks for the advice and information.

Regards

C00P