Incorrect go juice added

Travellers · Member

Incorrect go juice added

ants_oz · Veteran Member

If it were me, I would drain all the fuel into jerries and use it for other purposes - bonfires etc. A tank of fuel is cheap in comparison to the potential repair costs if it goes wrong.

There's no guarantees that the small amount of petrol in the tank will cause any problems for you - but it is were me, the risks are not worth it.

My two cents anyway.

Good luck with it, and hope you get away with nothing more than a few more grey hairs.

BazzMann48 · Veteran Member

I'd go with ants_oz's advice. Drain the fuel, refill with good stuff to dilute the wrong stuff remaining. I was advised it's ok as long as your fill the tank regularly to further dilute the bad stuff and to even ad some 2 stroke oil to help lubricate the fuel system.
I'm waiting to be towed to a garage after adding 16+ litres of ULP to my Diesel. Fortunately, I have not started the engine!
Good luck,
Bazz

blaze · Guru

you have already driven 30km, the petrol/diesel mix is well and truly through your system as unused fuel is returned to the tank and circulated. Do a few more kms and top up your tank again, then do it again diluting more each time. If you hadn't started vehicle I would have said drain it. The percentage of petrol should only be small, wouldn't worry about adding extra lube, should cope and why add another element to the mix.
cheers
blaze
I know a truckie that argued with our boss and filled his tanks with petrol, Got a call a bit later to tow the truck back. It had a ud engine and the driver said it had twice the horsepower for about 5km

patrol03 · Senior Member

Definitely drain the tank.Petrol is not compressible and will blow the ends of the injectors leading to a nasty blowup.

blaze · Guru

patrol03 wrote:
Definitely drain the tank.Petrol is not compressible and will blow the ends of the injectors leading to a nasty blowup.

so petrol engines don't have injectors?

cheers

blaze

Ron-D · Guru

I think the way it works is petrol engines are fired by spark plugs for there ignition, diesil fuel is fired by compression two completely different animals....

blaze · Guru

Ron-D wrote:
I think the way it works is petrol engines are fired by spark plugs for there ignition, diesil fuel is fired by compression two completely different animals....

since the demise of the carbie they both inject fuel, my question wasn't wether they fired with spark or compression.

cheers

blaze

aussie_paul · Guru

Anything up to 10% seems acceptable as long as not heavy duty operations like towing. Just keep topping the tank up as often as possible. I to know that horrible feeling!! disbelief I put 8 liters in the 80 liter tank. I drove 5 mins to home then syphoned 30 liters out and then topped up with diesel. I slowy used the mixed fuel by adding a little to tank each time I filled up.

Aussie Paul. smile

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Modern single rail . NO way ! We've had a few 7 litre Fuso, Isuzu trucks run on 20% petrol and everyone had broken rings . Diesels basically fire on detonation . But the petrol is too violent as it ignites . On a more strained four / five cylinder .. No way ! Just drain tanks as said . Bleed new fuel through to Atleast filters . Then take it easy for the next 100k or so .. If your Keen ? Add the mix slowly to farm tractor etc . A few litres each fill .,

-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Monday 24th of October 2016 06:23:29 PM

Tony Bev · Guru

ants_oz wrote:
If it were me, I would drain all the fuel into jerries and use it for other purposes - bonfires etc. A tank of fuel is cheap in comparison to the potential repair costs if it goes wrong.

There's no guarantees that the small amount of petrol in the tank will cause any problems for you - but it is were me, the risks are not worth it.

My two cents anyway.

Good luck with it, and hope you get away with nothing more than a few more grey hairs.

I am not a mechanic

But...

I will agree with ants oz advice, for peace of mind, and possibly the cheapest long term cost

The motoring organisations recommend that you drain the fuel tank, due to the fact that

Quote
Putting petrol in your diesel car will damage your fuel pump if not dealt with immediately. In diesel cars, the main fuel pump uses the diesel fuel flowing through it for lubrication. However, when you put petrol fuel in, the mix of petrol in diesel acts as a solvent, reducing lubrication and quickly causing damage to the pump as the metal parts come into contact and rub together. Other parts of the fuel system which might not be compatible with petrol, can also be damaged
Unquote

I did read a few years ago of a person in Europe who accidently completely filled his diesel car with petrol. His fuel tank exploded and his car was a write off

As a sidenote, and not to go off topic

But...

May I be one of the first to welcome you to the forum ants oz

TheHeaths · Guru

The major difference with the compression is a diesel runs at about twice the compression a petrol motor runs at.

It is that that may cause the damage Blaze. That's why water in a diesel is a very bad thing!

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Water stops fuel through filters . Plus it doesn't do injectors and pump much good, corrosion wise Etc .. LBut it's fine to inject at high pressure on inlet . Diesel turbo engines compression is from 16 to 1 to 21 to 1 compression . Petrol burns much faster, hotter ..

The Belmont Bear · Guru

Hi Travellers, with all due respect to the people on this site the best responses I see here are the ones telling you to take the advice from an expert such as a motoring organisation or a mechanic. Type your question into Google people such the NRMA, RACQ etc. will have recommendations on actions as I believe that this problem is not that uncommon. I did my time working on diesel and I can tell you as soon as you realised the error you probably shouldn't have even started your engine let alone driven it for 30kms. I understand your point about the cost of draining the fuel but not doing it and taking the risk on dilution could have cost you a whole lot more.

macka17 · Guru

Tow it from where it is to home. Drain completely.
Throw away filters and drain rail.
Can't do much with the mix in injectors and lines
Flush clean fuel right through to injector lines. and run engine. VERY quietly.
Hopefully you may get away with it.

Otherwise it. Injectors out. And flush everything back from there.
Not cheap.
But new fuel pump. and modern Injectors are VERY expensive.

Bet you don't do it again.
And I hope you get away with it.

Pre common rail you could, usually.

these ones. Sooner you than me mate.
Speak to YOUR mechanic lad. and do what HE suggests.
Otherwise find a fuel injection place in Ph book and say a please. please.

It does happen regularly but i don't know the rectify for modern fuel systems.

BazzMann48 · Veteran Member

Just had my tank drained & dried out. Fortunately, did not start engine or I would have been up for big $$$'s!
Donated contaminated fuel to mechanic to take home and light bonfires on his farm. Good cause!
I will double check the pumps (it's hard in rain with fuel company having similar name for their diesel and petrol pumps.
Also, I appreciated all the help received from RACQ and its sub-contractor/s
Stay safe - should've gone to ***-savers!

banjo · Senior Member

I did exactly the same thing with my Isuzu NPR small truck, but I only put 5 ltrs of super in the near empty tank !

I rang my son in law who is a mobile mechanic, and told him what I'd done and he said just fill her up to the brim, another 90 ltres of diesel and just run it.

Anyway that was a year ago and all good still.

PeterD · Guru

Travellers wrote:
?BT-50 is running great, have only done 30kms, maybe the last 30 good ks.? .

If you have driven 30 km you will probably have done all the damage that is going to be done.

erad · Guru

Any damage to the pump has most likely been done already. You have nothing to lose by continuing on, progressively diluting the petrol by topping up frequently.

We have a petrol car for my wife and a diesel tug for me and our caravan. I am paranoid either me or my wife about filling it with petrol. My tug is white, and I masked off the area around the filler and sprayed the inside of the filler area with bright orange paint. When you open the filler door, BANG - it smacks you in the face. Close the door and it looks 100% normal.

macka17 · Guru

Like I said.

Do NOT take notice of people that do NOT know, on something like this.

ASK a specialist/Tradesman.

it's YOUR wallet.
Fuiel Injection repair/replace costs are very high with modern systems.

blaze · Guru

macka17 wrote:
Like I said.

Do NOT take notice of people that do NOT know, on something like this.

ASK a specialist/Tradesman.

it's YOUR wallet.
Fuiel Injection repair/replace costs are very high with modern systems.

that's why I gave my advice macka, of 40 plus years

cheers

blaze

Vince · Senior Member

Hi Travellers

Did much the same a few years back, I put 20 Litres of the petrol dear stuff in my diesel Mavs 97 litres tank that was on empty.

Mechanic I rang said should be ok it's an old Nissan 4.2 donk they will run on bunker oil given the chance.

Know nothing about the new common rail motors so good luck with it

Hope you have it sorted by now.

macka17 · Guru

Yea Blaze.
I got my Trade papers in '61, City + Guilds
in those days Even in the Army wksps.,
with 6 month Rolls Royce marine diesels course
thrown in.

R.R were virtually. Remove. Replace and drive off.
NO repairs outside of wksps.
we were using the "new" CAV Rotary's in those days
along with Rail pumps.
Remember setting your first "spill point" on a Rotary?
Bit different hey.

I wouldn't even try to retip a modern injector. If you can?

The last tips for the Yanmar q3m in my yacht cost me $42 ea.
Still have recp't.
I'd dread to think what these Commons cost

The old diesels. We've run onmixes of Kero. old eng oil.
anything with oil in it will compression ignite.
SOME louder than others.

The old John Deere track loaders.
If you stalled when trimming steep batters on motorway shoulders etc,
(I've seen a few)
Stall. Then start again with engine running backwards.
Big cloud of black smoke and it revs it's way down with eng running backwards
burning it's sump oil
Funny afterwards. But a mess for us to clean up.

Could go forever on old stories on fishing boats and construction over the yrs hey.

Life is what it makes you. OR in reverse.

-- Edited by macka17 on Tuesday 25th of October 2016 05:46:26 PM

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Thing is modern engines put out more power than the old rattlers. The damage is when engine is under load .

Jenko1 · Veteran Member

If it does damage the motor as much as water does, the average price to fix a bt engine is $11-13 thousand.( a mate just had his rebuilt after filling with contaminated fuel) You should have drained the tank as soon as you realized you put petrol in it. If your mechanically minded you can do the work yourself. But to be sure I would contact a mazda dealer, as beleive it or not, they do quite a few that have had petrol in them.......at least my dealer has.

-- Edited by Jenko1 on Tuesday 25th of October 2016 11:14:40 PM

Hylife · Guru

15% petrol is going to raise the octane level fractionally but is not worth worrying about.

Higher octane rating means a higher resistance to detonation.
As diesel engines do NOT compress the fuel (they only compress the air and the fuel is injected directly into the air which has been heated due to the compression), you will not have to worry about fuel air mix levels etc like a petrol car engine.
Lower octane rating engines all ping (knock) because of the fuel they use. Yeah, that diesel engine clatter is because of the fuel, and they are designed to handle that.

Diesel fuels can fall within a range of 15 to 25 RON.

High octane petrol is actually low grade petroleum of around 85RON with methonal added to raise the octane to 95 or 98. The higher the methanol levels the higher the octane rating.

Higher octane fuels contain no more or no less power than any other octane rating. Yes, that is right,you heard me correctly. Higher octane fuels DO NOT provide more power to an engine and DO NOT result in a more powerful explosion within the engine, or any of the other gazillion old wifes tales about fuel.

I will say it again. "Octane ratings are a measure of 'Resistance to Detonation', not of power.
If yo want to get more power from an engine with higher octane fuel you have to add more air. That can only be done by using higher compression rations, eg 13:1 and higher, using a turbo, AND by having the ECU tuned for the higher octane rating.

So, lets look precisely at what you did. You added some 15% 85RON fuel to your 15RON to 25RON fuel. This will raise the fuels octane levels by approx 3RON.

The result most likely still be completely withing the normal operational parameters of the engine. If the diesel fuel was 15RON to start with you brought it up to 18RON and if the diesel was at the top end of 25RON (highly unlikely) you will loose a little power, that is all.

The modern diesel engine is quite forgiving of poor quality fuel and can be operated reliably within a very wide octane range of 10 to 30 RON without any dramas.

The Belmont Bear · Guru

Just a point on what erad suggested - "Any damage to the pump has most likely been done already. You have nothing to lose by continuing on" The problem is that the petrol mixed with the diesel will reduce the lubrication qualities of the fuel and the pump is one of the parts that is likely be affected. There will be particles of metal created due to this lack of lubrication. If the fuel filter is on the upstream side of the pump i.e. between the tank and the pump where does this contamination go ? I am not a highly trained technician like the motor mechanics of today, I did my time as a Diesel fitter on locomotives which probably would have used a small modern diesel like this as a fuel pump so in no way am I claiming to be an expert on BT50s. If it was my vehicle and if only for the piece of mind I would be asking someone who is an expert - but that's just my opinion. Travellers I really hope you haven't done any lasting damage to your vehicle and that everything works out well for you - we all make mistakes especially when we have other things playing on our minds.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Except modern single rail don't have injector pumps like the old mechanical systems . It will mainly be pistons and ring damage . 4 to 10k latter it may smoke and have blowby big time . Although petrol is higher octain ? It has much lower flash point . It's like a high octain petrol engine runing on low octain fuel and detonating itself to pieces . The only problem in past is ethanol supplemented fuel which played havoc with seals etc . Short term this won't do any damage seal wise .

Charleark · Member

I had a 1982 diesel Nissan Patrol. From memory it was 3.3 litres. Local service station put a quarter of a tank of petrol into it unknown to me at the time. Drove it home not a problem. Next morning fired up the motor and disappeared in a cloud of smoke. Mechanic stuck his nose in the fuel filer cap and announced that he could smell petrol. Dumped the tank and replaced $600.00 worth of injectors.

Two weeks later parked at traffic lights and watched the temp gauge shoot from normal to off scale in a minute. Drove across lights and parked and shut down motor. Seized solid and split the head from one end to the other. There is only about 6mm on the head between each pot and every one was cracked. Piston liners were all damaged with water scourge marks in the pots. Required a new short motor and refurbished head. Total bill $5500.00. Luckily took garage to Consumer Protection and was compensated for $5000.00 which was the max they could pay out. I still to this day look twice when refuelling my wagon.

pinballpat · Veteran Member

Gee this is Fantastic you know this Grey Nomad Technical Form is most entertaining, Like most of the Male members I am "An Old Bloke" who has done plenty of Life on this Earth and pride myself on knowing a bit on most subjects, Logic plays a lot in understanding various subjects like Science, Maths, Physics, Electronic Mechanics and a general understanding of Human Nature, but for the Life of me this discussion about Petrol in Diesel engine and in times gone by about Power point, wiring, safety switches, solar panels, tv , mobile phones ,computers etc etc etc seems to take on the same format, on one side you have a person enquiring about a subject, various opinions will reply but as the subject expands in walks the "EXPERTS" and growls out the Laws on the Subject in question relying on their previous outdated training and experiences in life, and they can get quite loud and forceful about it. This is very similar to the Animal World where an Alpha Male wants to be looked upon as the Oracle, or infallible, standing upright beating his chest as the Testosterone pump through his body!!! Well Gents the funny part is that it is a medical fact that males past the age of 30 their levels of Testosterone deplete approx. 1% every year there after, So the rest of you "old blokes" should possibly offer calmly your opinions on a subject but also understand at this time in life sit back and enjoy the onslaught of Manboobs