GCM upgrade

Leonaot · Newbie

GCM upgrade

iana · Guru

Leonaot, be careful of the info given, I went through this, you can get your vehicle load increased, or the van load increased and have it done nationally, but you can't get the combined mass increased. This is set by the vehicle manufacturer and is fixed. For the BT50 it is 6000kg, end of story.

Leonaot · Newbie

Thanks iana.

That was my understanding also till I emailed Lovells.

Their reply was quite specific - GCM to 7000kg.

I am a little sceptical which is why I have posted here.

I think I am going to have to try to get a copy of the Lovells documentation and take it to the RTA.

ants_oz · Veteran Member

Hi Iana - that information is not correct. There are a number of vehicles which can now have a GCM upgrade applied. One example:

info.kimberleykruiser.com/prado-150-gx-and-gxl-owners-can-now-tow-a-3000-kg-off-road-caravan/ (Prado GCM upgraded by 500kg's, max towbar download increased by 50kg, max tow rating increased from 2500kg to 3000kg)

I have recently read of LC200 GXL owners who have had GCM upgraded by 150kg, which facilitated a GVM upgrade of 150kg while still retaining the full 3500kg tow rating. Unfortunately I am not in a position to search for that discussion at the moment.

I seem to recall that the only way the GCM upgrade can be applied is to BRAND NEW UNREGISTERED vehicles. Once a vehicle is registered, the GCM cannot be changed. (GVM by contrast, CAN be changed after initial rego - just some hoops to jump through).

I also seem to recall a similar discussion recently on a BT50 which had a GCM upgrade - but again - it was a new, unregistered vehicle with GCM upgrade applied prior to initial registration. And that is was Lovells who did the upgrade also rings a bell for some reason...

I hope it goes without saying that since I have chosen to not provide supporting information regarding the LC200 and BT50 upgrades, my claims are not verified and should be taken at face value only. These are only what "I seem to recall" and obviously, my recollection might not be as accurate as I would like to think it is! Regardless, the Prado upgrade on offer shows that it IS technically and legally possible - and for not much money.

-- Edited by ants_oz on Tuesday 10th of January 2017 10:35:11 AM

macka17 · Guru

Plus.
Unless the road rules have changed.

As Max load on veh goes up.
Towbar weight goes down.
Regardless of max load rating.

It's percentages I believe.
But I've yet to see any of these toys we use. capable of Max loading
WITH max drawbar weight?

Please amend me if I'm wrong.

I can't really see any advantages of a coupla kg's extra anyway.
Just take a little less crap
Specially for what it costs. You all carry too much as it is.
OR have too small a van for you.

Just remember
these MFG's design and build Chassis and suspension\ Drive components.
TO A PRICE. To a Certain strength and weight range.

so not too much leeway, safety wise at least if you increasing even more.
THEN sticking 3ish ton behind.

Asking for trouble. Go a bigger. Higher rated tug and be safe.

ALl utes are only around the 2.5 ton tow with safety and long term
in mind..

iana · Guru

Leonaot, I would be most interested in the results, of your research, my source was Pedders suspension, Mazda Australia, and the Mazda dealer.

iana · Guru

It would seem that there is not much expertise on the forum on this subject.

If for instance you are pulled over and weighed, where do the authorities get their information from? under the registration details of your vehicle, or do they look at generic figures that apply to that model. How would you prove that your vehicle has had a GCM upgrade?

Macca this is not about tow ball weights or all up weights and loading of each vehicle, it is about the combined "all up" mass of the rig.

-- Edited by iana on Wednesday 11th of January 2017 09:42:23 AM

ants_oz · Veteran Member

iana wrote:
<snip>

If for instance you are pulled over and weighed, where do the authorities get their information from? under the registration details of your vehicle, or do they look at generic figures that apply to that model. How would you prove that your vehicle has had a GVM upgrade?
<snip>

The new weight details are shown on a compliance plate which is fitted when the vehicle is modified. That new compliance place - which includes the revised weight figures - is a requirement for the approval (the vehicle can NOT have it's weight ratings increased UNLESS a new compliance plate is fitted as part of the modifications). THAT is where the authorities get their information. The new compliance plate is a legal document.

ants_oz · Veteran Member

siana wrote:
Leonaot, I would be most interested in the results, of your research, my source was Pedders suspension, Mazda Australia, and the Mazda dealer.

That Pedders Suspension did not know (or more accurately, did not TELL you) about GCM upgrades is not surprising. They are not what I would regard as "experts" in the engineering, modification and compliance field - they are a chain store. Lovells on the other hand are a manufacturer of components (Pedders buy their parts from wholesale manufacturers), and provide vehicle modification AND engineering approval services. Pedders provide a GVM upgrade - and of course that is all they want to sell you - one of THEIR GVM upgrades.

That Mazda Australia did not know - again, not surprising depending on who you talked to. Did you speak to an engineer qualified and experienced in aftermarket modifications and compliance approval processes, or a level 1 service desk mort whose job it is to field phone calls?

That the dealer didn't know? No surprises there either. Motor vehicle dealers commonly provide consumers with misleading (and often blatantly illegal) information - such as "you can't fit a bulbar, it will void your warranty".

(apologies - had to edit this a few times to correct typos as I seem to have dyslexic fingers today)

-- Edited by ants_oz on Wednesday 11th of January 2017 09:17:23 AM

-- Edited by ants_oz on Wednesday 11th of January 2017 09:29:09 AM

-- Edited by ants_oz on Wednesday 11th of January 2017 09:29:33 AM

-- Edited by ants_oz on Wednesday 11th of January 2017 09:30:09 AM

-- Edited by ants_oz on Wednesday 11th of January 2017 09:31:02 AM

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

I am not aware of light vehicles getting GCM upgrades after market.
It is done with heavy vehicles and our OKA is an example.
This is a modification plate referred to by Anthony. Both GVM and GCM were increased as well as some seating mods. and the approval and rating of a DIY towbar and other matters.

Cheers,

Peter

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

Perhaps all should take the time to read this site -

http://www.statewide4x4.com.au/gvm-products/faqs.aspx

I have snipped these bits of info from that site .... BUT STILL READ THE WHOLE SITE -

GVM 01.JPG

GVM 02.JPG

GVM 03.JPG

Cheers - John

ants_oz · Veteran Member

Hi everyone,

This has obviously been lost in the body of a previous post: there is at least one current example of aftermarket GCM upgrade on a light vehicle:

info.kimberleykruiser.com/prado-150-gx-and-gxl-owners-can-now-tow-a-3000-kg-off-road-caravan/

150 series Prado GCM upgraded by 500kg's, max towball weight upgraded by 50kg to 300kg, max towing weight upgraded by 500kg from 2500kg to 3000kg. Can be fitted to new (unregistered) or already registered vehicles.

Edit - It must be noted that for this particular upgrade, the GVM remains unchanged! That is a polar opposite to the numerous GVM upgrades on the market for things like dual cab utes, which increase the GVM but leave the GCM unchanged.

-- Edited by ants_oz on Wednesday 11th of January 2017 10:28:40 AM

ants_oz · Veteran Member

Here is an article relating to the LC200

www.caravancampingsales.com.au/editorial/news/2016/four-tonne-towing-for-landcruiser-57142

I am normally loathe to use media articles like this - simply put, I don't trust the media. But I have read with my own Mk1 eyeball, product information from Lovells which supports this - I just can't find it!!! (annoying, I know). There IS a GCM upgrade as part of this package.

Dhutime · Senior Member

Hi all we are waiting for a phone call this morning to say our new 200 series is ready for pickup ,with the
3.8 GVM upgrade plus 4t tow kit which when done will have a CVM of 7800
This is being installed in Perth useing Lovells springs .
I have seen the new compliant plate .
After reading the above posts including the different opinions
I must say I'm a little confused so I will keep you all informed
It's not a cheap option but I will be legal
Dhutime

-- Edited by Dhutime on Wednesday 11th of January 2017 03:26:11 PM

macka17 · Guru

I'd like to see Toyota's legal\engineering opinion

of those weight limits on that chassis and components.
Specially with a new veh and it's warranty.

I't's About bloody time a decent capacity veh was on our market.

Without reverting to trucks.

Also. when people change front seats (I did)
or permanently remove rear two. I did that too.
They illegal without fresh compliance plate from authorized body.
I had to reinstall rear two to get roadworthy on Patrol to sell.

As it was. a 5 seater with 7 seat plate. a big no no.

-- Edited by macka17 on Wednesday 11th of January 2017 05:55:10 PM

Dhutime · Senior Member

Yep all done 2016 200 series Landcruiser new compliance plate fitted
Revised GVM from 3350 to 3800 kg
Revised BTC from 3500 to 4000 kg
Revised GCM from 6850 to 7800 kg
All with Gov approvals

iana · Guru

So if you don't have a "Modification"plate, how to the fellows weighing your rig know the combined mass of your vehicle?
Do they use the generic weights from some computer, look up your rego details or what?

ants_oz · Veteran Member

iana wrote:
So if you don't have a "Modification"plate, how to the fellows weighing your rig know the combined mass of your vehicle?
Do they use the generic weights from some computer, look up your rego details or what?

Pretty easily I would have thought:

Dhutime wrote:
Yep all done 2016 200 series Landcruiser new compliance plate fitted
<snip>

-- Edited by ants_oz on Thursday 12th of January 2017 07:57:48 AM

Leonaot · Newbie

That's a good looking set of numbers.

Are you able to advise what sort of documentation you got, or better still post copies of the

documentation for us all to read?

macka17 · Guru

Most importantly.
Has it been checked with Toyota head office in Aust, engineering dep't.

Be a bummer if you have an accident or something breaks and NO warranty cover hey.
I'd be wanting a copy of clearance from them too.
PLUS revision on my Warranty book. Just in case.

They could always plead ignorant. These are OUR figures.
YOU changed them. WE didn't authorise\clear them....

Did you??.

You know what warranty's and company's are like.
The tiniest little wriggle. They gone, you left holding can.

Dhutime · Senior Member

Leonaot wrote:
That's a good looking set of numbers.
Are you able to advise what sort of documentation you got, or better still post copies of the
documentation for us all to read?

All approval documents confirm what's on the compliance plate

Federal and state approved.

As far as warranty is concerned Toyota will warrant the vehicle but not any second stage upgrade which is covered by in our case Lovells.

macka17 · Guru

That's great Dhutime.
Including any damage to chassis etc I hope.

At least some can tow within legal weight limits now
if they have dollars to go more than dual cab trucks.

Wonder what happened to those "upgrades" Where they extended and reinforced chassis. susp.
with tag axle. (Maybe driving hub too?.)
Was mainly for mine veh's.

6 wheeler. should do a great job with the safety aspect?. Towing.
Full size Troopie\Patrol with short tray on back.

They did make them.
and if they confident chassis etc will take loads. Well.
That V8 donk certainly man enuff.
Priced right. there would be a market. Yes.
Expanding on carrying. Towing while keeping int space and tray.

Looking it up.
Seems mainly to be Troopies.
Maybe worth a thort for some hey.