Why a 3500kg tow rating may not really be a 3500kg tow rating

Walrus · Newbie

Recommendations please

Possum3 · Guru

Although I'm a Patrol man - I think that the Toyota Troopie is pretty hard to beat as a permanent tug - They can always provide a few nights accommodation unhitched from the van when taking a run into some of the more remote tracks - their rear seating folds out of the way when grandkids are not present. Too much weight to be permanently on a ute (either dual or single cab) - there have been several utes bent like a banana in the Kimberley Regions with a lot less weight than what you're considering.

Possum3 · Guru

Troopie capacities Note: Kerb, tare & payload weights are nominal and will vary depending on options and tray/body type. Gross Vehicle Mass (GVM) is the total permissible combined weight of the vehicle, including occupants, fuel and cargo.
Weights - Kerb weight (kg) 2340 . -
-Gross Vehicle Mass (kg) 3300 .
- Gross trailer weight braked (kg) 3500 .
- Gross trailer weight unbraked (kg) 750 .
.

Note: Towing capacity subject to regulatory requirements, towbar design, vehicle design and towing equipment limitations. Ask your Dealer for details of Toyota Genuine Towbar capacity and availability.

TheHeaths · Guru

Walrus,

further to Possums comments, I doubt that you will find a dual cab ute that will be able to 1) be fully loaded to its GVM and 2) then tow a full 3500 ATM van, as it will exceed its Gross Combination Mass by a large amount.

That is the problem with the utes that claim a 3500 kg tow weight. Their GCM is often 6000 kg or thereabouts, and the GVM of the fully loaded ute is around 3000 kg so caravan is limited to around the 3000 when loaded. When you consider that ute, and think that as a start, you will have 2 people (at least 150 kg), the ball weight of around 275 to 300 kg, and fuel of about 75 kg, you will be very limited getting anything else into the ute, especially if you are looking at a canopy, bull bar and other things like that, and then still get a big load into the van.

If you are going to look at a van of that sort of weight, I think you will need to be looking at a Landcruiser, Landrover, Jeep or Patrol to tow it. If you want a ute, I suspect you will need to go to one of the big American utes that are very pricey.

Good luck with your search, but it will not be as simple, especially if you want to remain legal with weights.

-- Edited by TheHeaths on Thursday 20th of April 2017 03:58:36 PM

PeterD · Guru

Have you committed yourself with the van? If you are going to option the twin cab up with a canopy and a few options, by the time you have fuelled it up and hitched the van you may not have much room for much in he van.

Read this first before proceeding -

Why a 3500kg tow rating may not really be a 3500kg tow rating

PeterD · Guru

Possum3, you left one very important dimension out of your second post. What is the gross combination mass (GCM?) We need that to see if there is any loading capacity in the tug with the van hitched.

Possum3 · Guru

Peter,
GCM not quoted by Toyota but Gross Vehicle Mass (kg) 3300, - Gross trailer weight braked (kg) 3500. Towing weight decreases in direct proportion to how much the tow vehicle's weight increases over tare again not quoted by Toyota.

Dougwe · Chief one feather

Welcome to the gang Walrus, enjoy here and out in the playground.

With that weight hooked up behind you it would be worth looking at a Iveco light truck or similar. I have 2.7 on the back of a twin cab Colorado and really wouldn't want much more.

Desert Dweller · Guru

Load everything up to the maximum like many other travellers. Current tow ratings for the popular brands are total bull****.

The authorities seem to be slowly catching up with offenders that are overloaded. Sooner the better.

Buy a Yankee truck & you'll have no worries except for FUEL CONSUMPTION! Then you can't go anywhere because it costs too much for fuel.

-- Edited by Desert Dweller on Thursday 20th of April 2017 06:48:45 PM

kesa32 · Senior Member

Hi walrus, mate look at something lighter van wise , sorry , but as others have said a dual cab won't cut it .... that's a heavy van !

If moneys no object then yes, an f series etc to tow will work

Walrus · Newbie

Thanks for the input guys.

We've not yet bought the van. We were looking at the new Blackseries HQ19, but there's no doubt it's heavy.

Our current rig is a 2002 Jayco Freedom tandem, with a Discovery 3, but the Disco now has 260k on the clock and will probably be at risk on an outback haul.

From the suggestions so far, we may need to completely rethink the whole tug/van rig idea and find a lighter, more suitable off-road van, but they all seem to be at the bleeding edge of weight tolerances.

Really appreciate the feedback, and we do not only want to stay legal, but safe. For us and other road users.

Cheers.

-- Edited by Walrus on Thursday 20th of April 2017 07:58:02 PM

-- Edited by Walrus on Thursday 20th of April 2017 07:58:16 PM

-- Edited by Walrus on Thursday 20th of April 2017 07:58:50 PM

Possum3 · Guru

Walrus have a look at these they are all Australian made with welded steel frame - www.explorex.com.au/category/off-road/ Made originally for Mining Industry in Pilbara - Not Chinese manufacture.

Tony Bev · Guru

Also a warm welcome from me Walrus

As my old caravan only had a tare weight of about 1400 kg, and I managed to tow it with a Ford Falcon

I have no advice to add to what others have already said

I hope that you manage to find a combination of tug and caravan, which suits your needs

macka17 · Guru

Hi.
VERY few vans are actually used "off road"
Anything over around 14ft max is too big.

Around 6.5 mtr Semi Offroad. Roadstar etc.
will give you around 2.8 ton
As long as you don't load it right up.
And take a tent or roll out with side tents on veh for true offroad.
Otherwise you'll end up being very disappointed.

A Patrol. Toyota Troopie. (V8) and one of those Landcruisers (yuk)
will do the job. and that's it. SAFELY.

Apart from the aforesaid Yank Tanks.
99% of the others won't cut the mustard. gross weight wise.
Specially not one of those Jeep things.
They about 2.5 ton Max in reality.
And that covers Mitzi. All utes. Land Rover. etc.

Without going a small truck. most large vans are in reality.
out of SAFE range for towing.
And the law is finally starting to catch up with it.
There will be a lot put off the roads in next few yrs.
And not b4 time.
They NOT safe.

And that's not counting the old retired car drivers
that are getting behind the wheel
PLUS their wives.
After never driving more than the family car
with a 6x4 trlr or fishing boat.

ALl people starting to tow.
Should be compulsory to take an educational course
and be indicated so on licence.

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

As others have already said, NONE of the popular 'utes' (or even the Toyota products (Cruiser/Troopy), Patrol, Jeep, Land Rover vehicles) on the current market are truly able to tow a van with an ATM of 3,500Kg ... I wouldn't use one of them to tow more than 2,700Kg.

Additionally, any 'off-road' van with an ATM of 3,500Kg is too big to take on the majority of "off-road" roads ... unless you mean just driving on the wide, open, roads found in the outback. They are just too big to manoeuvre in 'bush tracks'. There are many lower ATM vans that have the ability to spend lots of time 'off the seal' ... it is just whether they are of a size that you want to live in.

If your heart is set on a van of that size with 'off-road' capabilities then the only solution is a small truck - eg IVECO etc - or one of the yankee 'utes'.

Have a gander at these - these units are not as bad as many make out ... just ask someone who owns one -

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-reviews/2014-ford-f-250-performax-review-29539

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-reviews/chevrolet-silverado-2500hd-review-10831

http://www.caradvice.com.au/426487/2016-ram-2500-laramie-review/

Cheers - John

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Buy a decent 4WD motorhome and go anywhere... :)

Cheers,
Peter

macka17 · Guru

Trouble with those things Pete.
is you stuck with it.
ALL the time.

With vans. and 5thers.
You can have a normal (reasonably so) vehicle for daily drive.
and van on back for touring.

Same when you get there.
Drop van at park, whatever and drive around normally.

You don't have to drag the whole bloody thing round with you.
Regardless.

If you take small veh behind, for driving alone.
Your 4wd capabilities are instantly gone.

What you need with yours,
is make your camper detachable on back. (clamp\bolt on.)

So that you can dump at storage yard and use truck by itself.
just stick camper on when going somewhere.

Be a lot more versatile then hey.

Warren-Pat_01 · Guru

Macca says you don't need a Yank Tank, but towing those weights (& with something else in the tug) I wonder.
My brother-in-law bought a 2500 Dodge Ram because it can tow 6.5T (he needs it for his harvesters). Chevs, he said have good torque but nowhere near the power of the Dodge.

Do your home work well as either way it could be expensive.

Peter, we saw a massive (long) motorhome the other day at a wayside stop just out of Miles (Qld) - there was no way I would have taken it off the black top.