Needing some help and education in Towing

AndrewN · Newbie

Needing some help and education in Towing

macka17 · Guru

What's your tow veh?.

If any Ute. apart from US or Troopy.
You'r overweight with the Tare alone on that van.

There are only 2 veh's safe to tow that weight 2931kg.
the Landcruiser or Patrol.
Or get certain ones upgraded for several grand.

.
ALL the others, Jeeps, Mitzi's. Toyota Prado,Troopy etc

Utes. Mazda\Fords.Navara's, D'Max,Holden etc
are realistically. Limited to around 2.5 ton MAX.
tow weight.

That's near a top weight van.
and the way the highways are starting to take notice and cover regulations
regarding combination weights.
A lot of people are going to be very unhappy.

I'm not being nasty.
Just pointing out the wherewithalls for a newby.

What the Aust vehicles are plated for (towing)
Is NOT the safe limits they can tow.
As the vehicle weight rises. Drawbar weights go down
as does towing weight allowed.

It's a lot more complex than car \Van salesmen tell you.
They just want your money.

There is a LOT of good info on here.
Peruse some of it. And take note.

AND.
Enjoy the next 50 yrs it's all ahead of you.

Lancelot Link · Senior Member

Would like to help but there has been enough mud thrown into the water to even scare off a catfish!

hako · Guru

I'd love to help as well but wrong location. I think Andrew is fully aware of vehicle requirements and is being very sensible asking for help and welcome to the forum Andrew.

Good Luck

rockylizard · Guru

macka17 wrote:
What's your tow veh?.

If any Ute. apart from US or Troopy.
You'r overweight with the Tare alone on that van.

There are only 2 veh's safe to tow that weight 2931kg.
the Landcruiser or Patrol.
Or get certain ones upgraded for several grand.

.
ALL the others, Jeeps, Mitzi's. Toyota Prado,Troopy etc

Utes. Mazda\Fords.Navara's, D'Max,Holden etc
are realistically. Limited to around 2.5 ton MAX.
tow weight.

That's near a top weight van.
and the way the highways are starting to take notice and cover regulations
regarding combination weights.
A lot of people are going to be very unhappy.

I'm not being nasty.
Just pointing out the wherewithalls for a newby.

What the Aust vehicles are plated for (towing)
Is NOT the safe limits they can tow.
As the vehicle weight rises. Drawbar weights go down
as does towing weight allowed.

It's a lot more complex than car \Van salesmen tell you.
They just want your money.

There is a LOT of good info on here.
Peruse some of it. And take note.

AND.
Enjoy the next 50 yrs it's all ahead of you.

Gday...

Macka, so often your responses do not address the question posed by posters but, instead, tiresomely provide a long-winded discourse on your pet topic/s.

Without even knowing the type of vehicle the poster owns, you make the statement "You'r (sic) overweight with the Tare alone on that van".

Whilst I, and many members on this forum, are aware, and mainly concede, that it is sensible (safer?) to tow a van over 3,000Kg ATM with a vehicle that is genuinely capable, to make the statement that only the Patrol and Landcruiser (and US utes and Troopys apparently) are safe to tow that weight is just another of your subjective (placing excessive emphasis on one's own moods, attitudes, opinions,etc.; unduly egocentric) comments.

There are many other vehicles that are as, or more, capable than your pet vehicles. You really do need to broaden your knowledge of CURRENT vehicles and their capabilities.

I am very aware the written word does not convey tone of voice and can therefore not convey the message in the way the originator meant, but despite your comment "I'm not being nasty", unfortunately your posts come across as dictatorial (inclined to dictate or command; imperious; overbearing).

It would be far more beneficial to the forum, and its members, if you targeted your responses to the issues raised in a thread, rather than just blazing away blindly.

Cheers - John

AndrewN · Newbie

Thanks, we are intending to buy a Discovery 4 for the reasons you outlined, just aren't in a position to yet (got to sell our house first) but need to move our van before that so looking for someone with an adequate vehicle to help.

AndrewN · Newbie

hako wrote:
I'd love to help as well but wrong location. I think Andrew is fully aware of vehicle requirements and is being very sensible asking for help and welcome to the forum Andrew.

Good Luck

Thanks for your reply.

hako - If you have a vehicle that can legally tow it, then I'd be keen to hear from you.

AndrewN · Newbie

macka17 wrote:
What's your tow veh?.

If any Ute. apart from US or Troopy.
You'r overweight with the Tare alone on that van.

There are only 2 veh's safe to tow that weight 2931kg.
the Landcruiser or Patrol.
Or get certain ones upgraded for several grand.

.
ALL the others, Jeeps, Mitzi's. Toyota Prado,Troopy etc

Utes. Mazda\Fords.Navara's, D'Max,Holden etc
are realistically. Limited to around 2.5 ton MAX.
tow weight.

That's near a top weight van.
and the way the highways are starting to take notice and cover regulations
regarding combination weights.
A lot of people are going to be very unhappy.

I'm not being nasty.
Just pointing out the wherewithalls for a newby.

What the Aust vehicles are plated for (towing)
Is NOT the safe limits they can tow.
As the vehicle weight rises. Drawbar weights go down
as does towing weight allowed.

It's a lot more complex than car \Van salesmen tell you.
They just want your money.

There is a LOT of good info on here.
Peruse some of it. And take note.

AND.
Enjoy the next 50 yrs it's all ahead of you.

Thanks Macka, I believe the Discovery 4 is also adequate (which is what we are intending on buying, just aren't in a position to yet (got to sell our house first) but need to move our van before that so looking for someone with an adequate vehicle to help.

boab · Senior Member

Discovery 4 has a pay load of 680 kg take 250 kg off for ball weight leaves 430 kg for fuel, passengers ,and any other items you may pack in the car so i recon Macka is most likely right not many passenger type 4x4 are legal your better off with a 4 door ute with a pay load more like 1000 kg

hako · Guru

AndrewN wrote:
hako wrote:
I'd love to help as well but wrong location. I think Andrew is fully aware of vehicle requirements and is being very sensible asking for help and welcome to the forum Andrew.

Good Luck
Thanks for your reply.
hako - If you have a vehicle that can legally tow it, then I'd be keen to hear from you.

Andrew - as I mentioned, wrong location. We're in Toowoomba/Highfields. Hopefully someone can volunteer.

Regards

rockylizard · Guru

boab wrote:
Discovery 4 has a pay load of 680 kg take 250 kg off for ball weight leaves 430 kg for fuel, passengers ,and any other items you may pack in the car so i recon Macka is most likely right not many passenger type 4x4 are legal your better off with a 4 door ute with a pay load more like 1000 kg

Gday...

I think if you read Macka's advice he definitely is NOT recommending "a four door ute with a pay load more than 1000" and he suggests passenger type 4x4s have 'limitations' ... OH except for his beloved Patrol and, grudgingly, Landcruisers. cry

"ALL the others, Jeeps, Mitzi's. Toyota Prado,Troopy etc
Utes. Mazda\Fords.Navara's, D'Max,Holden etc
are realistically. Limited to around 2.5 ton MAX.
tow weight."

Interestingly, most who have done the research don't recommend any of the current utes for towing above 2,500Kg.

If you do some research you will find the 200 Series Landcruiser only has a 610Kg payload - then less tow ball, people, full tank, bullbar, roof rack, etc, etc etc.....

https://practicalmotoring.com.au/car-advice/why-a-3500kg-tow-rating-may-not-really-be-a-3500kg-tow-rating/

Cheers - John

-- Edited by rockylizard on Friday 5th of May 2017 01:01:15 PM

hako · Guru

boab wrote:
Discovery 4 has a pay load of 680 kg take 250 kg off for ball weight leaves 430 kg for fuel, passengers ,and any other items you may pack in the car so i recon Macka is most likely right not many passenger type 4x4 are legal your better off with a 4 door ute with a pay load more like 1000 kg

Discovery 4 has a rated tow capacity of 3500kg.

Regards

boab · Senior Member

I am aware of the rated tow rate so long as you dont exceed the pay load of 680 kg pay toad is the amount of weight you can add to the empty weight of the vehicle and includes fuel , passengers . tow ball weight and any other extras in the car
regards

macka17 · Guru

People love picking.

Basically. very few can tow 3 ton. Legally.
When their veh is full of juice. missus and other bits.

Like I said.
Towbar weights go down. Towed weights drop.

and that's before the SAFETY factors come into it.

Jeeeps. Mitzi's Prado's etc are? still 2.5 ton max.

Utes do have larger payloads.
BUT. When you utilise it. they nowhere near 3.5 or 3 ton tow weight capacity.

ALl veh's drop significantly when you load them.
That's what a lot here seem to have a problem with.
Simply check the figures first.

Most people bite on here at me.
cause I'm a little too close to the truth for some.
regarding weights and final towing\load capacity's.

More than ONE of them wouldn't make it past the Highways weight stations.

AND.
On the Australian standard veh market (UNmodified)

The Landcruiser and Patrol are about the only two that can LEGALLY
and SAFELY (Physical weight. wheelbase and grip on road, plus gearing)
tow near those 3.2\3.5t figures..
Hence most others are reduced to cover MFG's arses.
By reducing more as loaded.

Next.........................

-- Edited by macka17 on Friday 5th of May 2017 02:03:01 PM

blaze · Guru

macka17 wrote:

AND.
On the Australian standard veh market (UNmodified)

The Landcruiser and Patrol are about the only two that can LEGALLY
and SAFELY (Physical weight. wheelbase and grip on road, plus gearing)
tow near those 3.2\3.5t figures..
Hence most others are reduced to cover MFG's arses.
By reducing more as loaded.

Next.........................

-- Edited by macka17 on Friday 5th of May 2017 02:03:01 PM

why not add the defender in that list too macka (not the 90)

cheers

blaze

rockylizard · Guru

macka17 wrote:
People love picking.

Basically. very few can tow 3 ton. Legally.
When their veh is full of juice. missus and other bits.

AND.
On the Australian standard veh market (UNmodified)

The Landcruiser and Patrol are about the only two that can LEGALLY
and SAFELY (Physical weight. wheelbase and grip on road, plus gearing)
tow near those 3.2\3.5t figures..
Hence most others are reduced to cover MFG's arses.
By reducing more as loaded.
Next.........................

Gday...

Macka I just took the next number ... you make it difficult to support your 'knowledge' and experience when you continue to make subjective statements of advice that are patently wrong if not at least misleading. hmm

"very few" of what?? Unsubstantiated and very much coloured by your opinion - albeit your opinion is formed from YOUR experience from (hopefully) previous ownership of all the vehicles on the market. ?

You really MUST begin to look past your beloved Patrol and that 'all encompassing' Landcruiser title you throw around. Are you actually aware of just how many variants of "Landcruiser" on the market?

To say they "are bout the only two that can LEGALLY and SAFELY ....." is just again patently wrong and again if not wrong is patently misleading.

It is conceded that the current crop of '4x4 utes' are doubtful contenders to tow above 2,700Kg.

No-one doubts your have MANY years (more than anyone else it seems) of experience on every surface, on all continents, in every occupation and leisure pastime.But mate - please stop FORCING your personal opinions on all and sundry. Some might call it self-serving.

Cheers - John

macka17 · Guru

like I said.John.

you or anybody else don't like my posts.
Go straight past.
You don't HAVE to read.
I DON'T force anything on anybody.
It's ALL your choices if you want to read.

On MOST of my posts I add. On the bottom.
"MY opinions only."
Read a few.

"Very few" of current that sized veh's on market.
Too many to list.

"Landcruiser." Basically means the big one. others have differing model names?.

Too Many people have been "Magazine" conned into bigger and more. is better.

Notwithstanding the fact that we have virtually NO vehicles on current market
to legally tow them with,
When loaded to hilt. Veh and van.
As most seem to be. Washing machines etc.

People picking here, should be looking at their rigs.
Are THEY all legal in weights etc. Combined and otherwise.

Oh.
One of the reasons I "push" this size and weights thing.
Is the fact that among other things.
I've driven trucks here and other country's.
seen one or two accidents. and body's.
and separated mixed up parts and bodies when on the cranes too.
NOT nice.

If my "RANTING". Educates just One mind..
into looking, checking and thinking. maybeee I should just!.

I've done some good OK.

You can ALL pick as much as you like.
I Personally will keep doing it.

As said.
You don't like.

---------------DON'T READ.-----------------

Love to ALL.
I dislike nobody.

Life's too good for misery.

And.
To WHOM it may concern.

I've found the balance in my implant.
Pain gone. 99% of time.
and drug levels going down too.

Is worth every cent. So far.

aussie_paul · Guru

rockylizard wrote:
Some might call it self-serving.
Cheers - John

I think that might be Macka's middle name!!! biggrin

Aussie Paul. smile

John Kay · Veteran Member

Hi All.

Most of what I would like to say has already been said above.

When I look for a suitable towing vehicle I would get all of the specifications and all the specifications of the van, put them on paper.

When any of the specs have been reached to there maximum that's is the legal limit ( in other words the weakest link.)

Tare (or kerb) weight: GVM (Gross Vehicle Mass): Payload: Front and rear axle load: GCM (Gross Combined Mass): Tow Ball Weight:

Regards John Kay

-- Edited by John Kay on Saturday 6th of May 2017 08:06:39 AM

macka17 · Guru

No-one doubts your have MANY years (more than anyone else it seems) of experience on every surface, on all continents, in every occupation and leisure pastime.But mate - please stop FORCING your personal opinions on all and sundry. Some might call it self-serving.

Cheers - John

============
John.
We ALL have experiences.

Some more than others. some travelled and done more than others.

IF you can pass some on. Good. The more the merrier in my eyes.

That's how most of us did our learning.
SOme education. Some practice.

In our cases. it was more the practice.
as nobody had done much b4 us regarding experiences.
to educate anybody with.

I didn't get much in the actual education learning (up to 12ish)
so have more problems than some getting my meanings across.
Hence the long windedness. sometimes.

And no matter what a person knows.
There ARE Always more that know more than him\her.
I've NEVER said I know everything.
Just lots of bits about lots of different things.
Some more than others.

Just some on here take things the wrong way.
with my wording.

Oh. And Disco not on list as many beguile it.
A great truck.
Earlier models, very little reliability (Electronically.)
and waaaay over rated with towing weights.

Magic at sensible figures.
I love 'em to drive. Nothing in 4wd's can touch them.

And "FORCING" anybody.

The day I come and hold your nose on screen.

IS the day I'm forcing you to do anything.

Otherwise. As I said.

U No Likee.

U NO Reedee.

Simple..

Love.

-- Edited by macka17 on Saturday 6th of May 2017 01:41:21 PM

dirvine · Senior Member

I have a 2016 Disco 4. I also have 2017 76 Landcruiser wagon. Both are rated to tow 3500. But once you load up the LC with petrol (150 litres), plus ball weight its almost on the limit with a bit of rubbish in the back and a couple of heavy people. (we are). Has plenty of grunt but feels a bit vague on the highway at anything over 85kph. The disco has more on board carry capacity and only has a 80ltr tank, so already 70kg better off than a fully loaded LC. Also the Disco does not get bogged down with ball weight. The air suspension adjusts to the load. Also the computers recognize you are towing and adjust so many items that make the disco a pleasure to tow anything. Whilst I only have a 16' Manta Ray deluxe, it is a heavy van for its size. (2400kg all up). Driving the disco you have to wonder if anything is behind you. At first I travelled at 90kph on the Hume, in the end I was doing 110 and the caravan and car was as stable as anything. To me comparing the Tugs its chalk and cheese. Disco wins hands down. But when I go across the middle of Australia in a months time, I bet you can all guess which Tug I will take!. Any rate Andrew good choice of tug, Most comfortable, most economical given its size, and you will have that "Oh what a feeling" as you pass Landcruisers stuggling to keep up. Its just the nagging feeling of Pommie unreliability that worries me about Landrover

Rip and Rosie · Guru

OMG you blokes certainly know how to hijack a thread.

Peterpan · Guru

I agree R&R,

I thought the original poster wanted some-one to follow him down to where his van is.

Show him how to hitch up the van, give him some instruction on how to tow the van in the helpers vehicle ,

and then follow them back to his home a couple of hours away. I would have offered but the van was well out of my range.

Judging by his post he had already sourced out the type of tug he would need.

His post has just about disappeared under all the hijacked material, interesting though they may be.

dirvine · Senior Member

I was just convincing him he has purchased the best tug for nearly all types of on road towing. Everybody else here was saying this tug or that. I just was pointing out from a Landrover perspective his choice was a good one, as others had tended to overlook the excellent towing qualities of the Disco. I cannot help as I have all weekends booked out till I head off.

SouthernComfort · Guru

dirvine wrote:
I have a 2016 Disco 4. I also have 2017 76 Landcruiser wagon. Both are rated to tow 3500. But once you load up the LC with petrol (150 litres), plus ball weight its almost on the limit with a bit of rubbish in the back and a couple of heavy people. (we are). Has plenty of grunt but feels a bit vague on the highway at anything over 85kph. The disco has more on board carry capacity and only has a 80ltr tank, so already 70kg better off than a fully loaded LC. Also the Disco does not get bogged down with ball weight. The air suspension adjusts to the load. Also the computers recognize you are towing and adjust so many items that make the disco a pleasure to tow anything. Whilst I only have a 16' Manta Ray deluxe, it is a heavy van for its size. (2400kg all up). Driving the disco you have to wonder if anything is behind you. At first I travelled at 90kph on the Hume, in the end I was doing 110 and the caravan and car was as stable as anything. To me comparing the Tugs its chalk and cheese. Disco wins hands down. But when I go across the middle of Australia in a months time, I bet you can all guess which Tug I will take!. Any rate Andrew good choice of tug, Most comfortable, most economical given its size, and you will have that "Oh what a feeling" as you pass Landcruisers stuggling to keep up. Its just the nagging feeling of Pommie unreliability that worries me about Landrover

I'm genuinely curious about this for 3 reasons: 1. Exactly why do you think the Disco 4 may prove less reliable than any other make? 2. You're confirming that Andrew has made a good choice (I agree), 3. My old rock solid Disco 2 TD5 never once let me down over many years, including 1000's km's of towing a very large boat. I wish I still had it instead of the flimsy Territory I bought, which by comparison is made of tin and nail varnish, and doesn't feel happy towing. I'd get back into a Disco diesel tomorrow given the chance. They are as strong as an Ox, not as macho looking as some of the "trucks" perhaps, then I suppose that might be important to some? As for LR unreliability, much BS is spouted IMO!

BTW Andrew, I'm in Melbourne and would willingly help you mate, but unfortunately your van would rip the backside out of my Territory!

-- Edited by SouthernComfort on Thursday 11th of May 2017 09:07:48 AM

-- Edited by SouthernComfort on Thursday 11th of May 2017 09:09:33 AM

rockylizard · Guru

SouthernComfort wrote:
dirvine wrote:
I have a 2016 Disco 4. ~~~SNIP~~~ Any rate Andrew good choice of tug, Most comfortable, most economical given its size, and you will have that "Oh what a feeling" as you pass Landcruisers stuggling to keep up. Its just the nagging feeling of Pommie unreliability that worries me about Landrover
I'm genuinely curious about this for 3 reasons: 1. Exactly why do you think the Disco 4 may prove less reliable than any other make? 2. You're confirming that Andrew has made a good choice (I agree), 3. My old rock solid Disco 2 TD5 never once let me down over many years, including 1000's km's of towing a very large boat. I wish I still had it instead of the flimsy Territory I bought, which by comparison is made of tin and nail varnish, and doesn't feel happy towing. I'd get back into a Disco diesel tomorrow given the chance. They are as strong as an Ox, not as macho looking as some of the "trucks" perhaps, then I suppose that might be important to some? As for LR unreliability, much BS is spouted IMO!

Gday...

cry This thread has gone way Off Topic 01.jpg .... so what the heck ... I will join in too. hmm

When I first got my Discovery 3 it was 99% because of its 'people' comfort, excellent ride, size and would easily tow 2,700Kg of van.

Like so many who have not owned a Land Rover Discovery previously, I too had a nagging feeling that perhaps I might regret the purchase 'down the track' when I was stuck 'down the track'.

My 2006 Landy (see my signature block below) had 72,000Km under its belt when I gave it a good home in 2009. It now has 227,000Km on the clock. With anything mechanical, I reluctantly sing its praises because I am very certain Mr Murphy is only a stone's throw away with his ears pricked right up.

I have spend eight years of full-time travel towing my van. I have experienced nothing that has caused me to be stuck - or even delayed - in my travels. I have predominantly travelled in outback QLD, NSW, SA and some WA. Even NW Victoria can be a bit remote in parts.

I have had the vehicle serviced all over Straya - sometime with dealers ... sometimes with independent Land Rover mobs ... sometimes with other "Posh European" dealers - Audi/Mercedes etc etc are well aware of the requirements of today's modern vehicles.

I have met at least 40 other Discovery 3 and 4 owners towing and travelling - and many with Discovery 2. I have yet to encounter one that was not happy with their vehicle and had also had a considerably good run of reliability. None would have changed their vehicle for another.

I do concede we all laud the virtues and desirability of our particular vehicles - and it will ever be so.

However, as one who has owned Landcruisers since the 1980s (60s, 80s, and 100s) after having this Discovery ... those Landcruisers were quite 'agricultural' by comparison.

Albeit, these new-fangled 200s and other 4x4s are as electronically overburdened as the Discoverys these days. Even the 2016 and onward utes are full of electronic gizmos. I can guarantee from those owners of all vehicles I have encountered on the road - they, like every goddamn modern vehicle, are becoming more and more complex.

Cheers - John

[edit: OH, the main people who are concerned about the reliability of my vehicle are those who approach me at camps with "So, how's the Landy? Been stuck much? Aren't you worried about reliability? Geez, ya braver than me bring that out here." etc etc]

-- Edited by rockylizard on Thursday 11th of May 2017 09:39:18 AM

SouthernComfort · Guru

Exactly John, Most skepticism is expressed by those who've never owned one.

BTW, these comments aren't off topic. Andrew may gain even more encouragement from accounts by real LR experiences, PLUS I did say I would jump to his aid if I had a decent tug for his particular van....

-- Edited by SouthernComfort on Thursday 11th of May 2017 09:58:17 AM

Mike Harding · Guru

Yes, yes....

But what make of caravan did he own?

Keith P · Senior Member

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Ivan 01 · Guru

Well, that was interesting biggrin