Give it a break.

denmonkey wrote:

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oldtrack123 wrote:

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 I do hope that you have removed any thing [label , specification plate ,etc ' ]that could lead anyone to think the hood or any other converted 240 equipment is 240 V & clearly indicated such converted IS "12 V DC ONLY." [ also a requirement Aus wide]

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I did remove the labelling inside the range hood that made reference to the 240v input. 

I'll double check, but I don't believe there were any other external identifiers to suggest the Voltage input on the effected device.

thank for your input

 

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 Well Done

T1 Terry wrote:

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As it appeared to be a plug in type 240v device, a trained sparkie would no doubt realise there was no 240vac plug but 12v wiring instead. Need to be careful just how much you malign the intelligence of the average electrician, they get a tad upset when portrayed as knuckle dragging morons
Far more care needs to be taken when converting a 12v device to 240vac operation so any technician knows there are lethal voltages inside where there were not lethal voltages involved in similar models of the same appliance

T1 Terry

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Terry

Sadly  ,I have to say , You obviously do not understand, why such regulations exist

It has nothing to do with the intelligence of electrical tradesmen,  but more to do with the knowledge of Mr Average in regards to electrical matters

 FULL Correct Labeling /Identification is mandatory on ALL electrical Equipment

And IF you cannot see the  possible danger  in this case, if the references to 240 v , Spec plate, ,Model Number , etc are not totally removed , ALL no longer relevant,  AlLL  no longer applicable ,Well

Such corrections , even apply if  the frequency of a generator is changed  Ie from 60Hz to 50H z

A new name plate is required

I KNOW of many other instances

All required because sensible  people, who can see & understand  the risks associated with ANY incorrect details being  left on modified equipment,  put out the regulations

Even if you DO NOT UNDERSTAND!!!

May I suggest you stick with the things you actually know about .like lithiums ,but steer clear of anything to do with LOW Voltage[as defined in the Standards],for the benefit of others, that means any wiring ,equipment etc , above 50V AC or 120V ripple free DC.

denmonkey wrote:

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Right now after working on the van and seeing the standard of some of the work that went into making it, I have my own concerns around the electrical side of things.
The 12v system uses wires that are under that are unfit for purpose. I.e. the 12v feed to the fridge from the tug.
The connections are exposed to the weather using those plastic connector strips where used under the van.
The same as used in the rangehood. I would have like to see a ceramic equivalent used here.
The labels for indentifying the incoming 240v wire were not in their correct place. Close but still not right.
The ground point(12v) on the chasis was a very small screw, which was no longer making contact.
Even when new this would have been a poor excuse for a ground.
Screws in other places have not been set straight or don't screw into anything on the other side of what they're holding down.
And who ever was on the staple gun that day, had no idea :)

All that said, looking at the level of attention paid to the manufacture of my van, if the same focus was applied to the 240v system, I'm already in trouble.

I wonder if their certification for 240 is done in house ?

Good to see you understand the potential problems, 

 You have every right to be concerned if that van was made in Victoria

Victoria does not mandate that only licensed Electricians can carry out the 240V installation

Any one in the factory can do it!

Does not require any inspection of workmanship with regard to  the 240V work 

"Certification "??? is the greatest joke 

Can you find a anything resembling an Electrical Certification  Cert on your van??

Because it is connected by an extension lead & plug , Victoria ,& only Victoria class them as  factory made mass produced APPLIANCES

Yes, it appears that they put them in the  same class as Mass produced  , by machines ,electrical appliances

Perhaps explains why the majority of makers are in Victoria

West Australia & Queensland  ,very recently ,made it very clear that they consider such work as an "Electrical Installation" subject to all the requirements of"Electrical Installations" Including individual inspection & testing & issuing a individual signed certificates 

PS Have you checked the MAINS earthing point ?, Earth continuity between all exposed metal requiring to be  correctly earthed under the Aus Standards ?

T1 Terry wrote:

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Peter, please explain the danger aspect of an appliance now powered by 12v still having a 240vac sticker some where inside?

[a]The average punter isn't allowed to mess with 240vac so is highly unlikely to add a 240vac plug and lead where there isn't one

and a licenced electrician would understand the label is no longer relevant. If the fact there is a label saying 240vac yet it is clear the appliance is 12v powered leads someone to create a dangerous situation,

[c]I'd suggest the label would make no difference at all, they probably can't read or understand what the label says ......
[d]Remember, we are talking about changing from a lethal supply to a non lethal supply, not the other way around

T1 Terry

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  Terry

Reread your  above  post 

Then read the Acts /regulations relating to correct identification of electrical equipment

but reconsider the points you have raised in above & think about them carefully especially

[a] Do you really think that is valid?

[the Electrician would understand or not , IS NOT the point. the labeling NO LONGER IS CORRECT  that includes even the MODEL number

Surely the reasons why ,are not beyond your comprehension

Sit back & seriously   think about possible consequences  of even the model number being left

But a couple of clues :

[a]the model number would indicate it is a 240V device

 what is the only internal indications that it is now a 12 device leaving out the fact that it  that it is now fixed wired  to what could be either 240v or 12V system

Answer :a CLOSE look at the actual fan  & light

[d]And that shows how you do not understand  the whole point of labeling regulations

Actually If it had off been the other way round & done correctly it would  still require correct identification

Why do you not accept  that these rules & regulations are not made by some  non qualified person s

They are made by HIGHLY qualified people in the particular field after long discussions with trade connected people .

In fact, many are the result of  what people actually working in the field have found

What are your qualifications to  comment on Electrical Standards & Regulations????

T1 Terry wrote:

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Never mind Peter, certainly not worth an argument over. I think I've quoted my qualifications enough times on enough forums that you have asked the same question so I'm not going to bother repeating them again here. Let's just say I'm a step ahead of you, at least I'm still active in the electrical field

T1 Terry

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You have ZERO  Qualifications in the real  Electrical Field

Active In the Electrical field Playing around with EXTRA low voltage DC systems!!!!!!!

You legally are not even allowed to replace a 240 v light  switch!

I may not be  active  ,now,  but that does not mean  I am not aware of  or keep up with current regulations , rules , &   most importantly ,UNDERSTAND the reasoning behind them

What I do have is Many MANY long years of REAL experience covering a very wide area field of such electrical  work[Not just limited to house wiring ],but including Industrial  , heavy  Engineering,   control systems , equipment servicing etc etc , working for a very large  heavy engineering  & equipment  supply co

I have had to read ,know & understand more Australian Standards than you could even think of.

As the registered electrical license holder for that very large Co , the CO's electrical Engineer gave me  proposed amendment  to electrical Standards to submit commits on

That did not just cover AS3000  But many  Standards covering products, services etc   that we were involved with

You seem to forget that my son continues   in the field as a LICENSED ELECTRICAL   CONTRACTOR, lives very close by  & we regularly discuss trends & rules & his work far exceeds domestic house wiring.

He just renewed that licence.After passing the relevant exams .

Not just a diesel mechanic ,who took up experimenting with solar & Lithium batteries.

I again suggest you stick with the subject that you have some real experience with [through experimentation  &  on line information] Lithium battery & Solar, but keep well clear of any real electrical work on/or involved in LOW voltage electrics & above.

Perhaps you should reconsider your, "One day I'll know it all, but till then, I'll keep learning " it seems you do not want to learn ,you know it ALL

Finally I repeat [Know but others may be interested]

What are your qualifications to  comment on Electrical Standards & Regulations????

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Edited by oldtrack123 on Thursday 1st of March 2018 05:38:58 PM

T1 Terry wrote:

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What are your qualifications to comment on Electrical Standards & Regulations????biggrin

 Advanced diploma in electrical and computing technology, I didn't complete it because it went in a direction that no longer interested me at the time. Often wish I had because my interests have swung back that way but for a completely different reason, VFD (Variable Frequency Drive) for electric vehicle propulsion rather than assembly line control. We had to have all the basic knowledge a licenced sparkie required to complete the first yr plus a crap load more that would have been way outside the needs for the average sparkie.
Just like you, I do not have a sparkie licence, just like you I have regularly contact and discussions with licenced sparkies, but I also work alongside them and knowing the latest standards and try to get a handle on what will be part of the future standards as this is very much involved in what I do. Getting the people who write the standards up to speed is the major problem, unless they are actually working with the new technology they don't have clue about what they don't know and therefore what they need to adapt into the standards.
I hear that one of those involved in writing the latest standards was relieved from his position, know anything about that Peter?

T1 Terry

-- Edited by T1 Terry on Monday 5th of March 2018 02:06:07 PM

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 Yes , the "Average " sparky ,doing simple electrical installations ,does not need to know much ,except to FULLY "understand "the rules & regulations.

A lot of indications that many have difficulties  even doing that

Like those who do not understand that the term "Flexible  cable "on it's own means absolutely nothing .& suggest that ordinary "Flexible "cable ,as used in every day domestic Extension leads &appliance cords can be /is approved for  use as permanent wiring 

However My work & also Son's  far exceeded every day ordinary electrical installations

My training involved a FIVE year apprenticeship [High grades each year],which included both electrical fitter &  Electrical mechanic & in 5th year basic radio

Yes, there are different classes , of "Electricians "even today.

Also @ same time  as above doing an Electrical Engineering Diploma course [4year] but had to give it up part way through 3rd year [Personal/family  reasons]

Plus   later an additional 3year diploma  course in " Advanced Industrial Electronics" honour  grades each year.

Instructors could not understand why I was  bothering to do it, as in their words,"there was nothing  new for me to learn "

[I missed over 50% of the actual classes, due to being on callout for service work.

NOT correspondence  courses which are a BIG joke!!!  

You still haven't come up with the regs regarding the use of flex cable in fixed wiring Peter, so until then it appears to be your interpretation only. I'm guessing Jayco are not interested in your interpretation in the slightest and will continue to use 3 core flex cable in their plug and play systems.
You are the one that put colours and cable sizes into the discussion, no one else, so you are trying to score points on yourself  As for training as a radio tech  what has that got to with RV electrics? They don't use valves in anything much these days so I can't see the cross over.

Sorry Peter, I know you don't have much to do with your days now, but I'm not really interested in another nonsense to and froe debate to keep you entertained, best look for another target.

T1 Terry

oldtrack123 wrote:

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  what about the drinks.  whiskey or beer ???

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 Sambucca thanks

This thread should be in the jokes section.

Jeff