Premium Diesel.

Hetho · Senior Member

Premium Diesel.

yobarr · Guru

Hetho wrote:
I pulled in to a servo in Goulburn last week for diesel advertised on the board for 147.9 / lt.
put in 100 plus ltr's and at just about full I noticed the pump price was 150.9 / ltr, and it's "Premium Diesel".
You may be able to guess what the next 10 min was like, I lost the battle as the servo did have a sign advertising PD @150.9 leaning up against a shrub at the entrance.
So, as I'm continuing my journey to Benalla, Vic; I'm wondering; are there advantages to using "Premium Diesel?
I have noticed that there are quite a few servos advertising PD.
Plus as a second discussion point, BP Glenrowan had diesel at a good price and filled up, 120 ltr's.
2 things I noticed, no foaming and very clear.
Are there advantages to using BP Diesel?
I am looking forward to comments
Regards.
Hetho.

BP Ultimate Diesel has the highest Cetane rating (like octane rating?) and I use nothing else. I add 3ml/ litre of Activ 2 motorcycle engine oil. Good economy and everything seems to run more smoothly. Just saying.

Jaahn · Guru

Hi Hetho smile

I think it is mostly BS marketing. But if the cetane rating was higher then that may not even matter as any higher figure than needed to work well is wasted and does nothing extra. The newer multi micro injection electronic diesel wonders you all drive probably do not need a very high cetane number like the mechanical single injection older models did in some circumstances. hmm

Here is something to read by this PITA. https://autoexpert.com.au/posts/the-truth-about-premium-diesel-fuel

Jaahn

Warren-Pat_01 · Guru

Gary,
It would have been worse if you got pinched for speeding with that extra oomph from the premium fuel!

Now I don't feel guilty when I put "Truck diesel" in my Patrol at Caltex & Puma stations! Several fuels no longer foam but that makes it difficult for those of us who "fill-er-up"!

yobarr · Guru

Jaahn wrote:
Hi Hetho
I think it is mostly BS marketing. But if the cetane rating was higher then that may not even matter as any higher figure than needed to work well is wasted and does nothing extra. The newer multi micro injection electronic diesel wonders you all drive probably do not need a very high cetane number like the mechanical single injection older models did in some circumstances.
Here is something to read by this PITA. https://autoexpert.com.au/posts/the-truth-about-premium-diesel-fuel
Jaahn

Rubbish!

Dave1952 · Senior Member

Of course the foaming is caused by the amount of so called detergent additive which is added to the diesel when it is in the refinery. I still cannot understand why diesel is so dear when it is the very first product from the refining process. I worked for a time in the petroleum industry but no one could, or would, give me an answer for diesel prices. Seems that it is no more than the great diesel ripoff.
Anyone got any thoughts or more information, or perhaps more knowledge than I have?

-- Edited by Dave1952 on Saturday 4th of August 2018 07:15:07 PM

Des and Jane · Senior Member

Dave1952 wrote:
I still cannot understand why diesel is so dear when it is the very first product from the refining process. I worked for a time in the petroleum industry but no one could, or would, give me an answer for diesel prices. Seems that it is no more than the great diesel ripoff.
Anyone got any thoughts or more information, or perhaps more knowledge than I have?

-- Edited by Dave1952 on Saturday 4th of August 2018 07:15:07 PM

Dave, it's the age old story of supply and demand.
Years ago diesel was a fraction of the price of petrol...being by product of the refining process.
They couldn't give it away...

And then came along the diesel 4 wheel drive and SUV's etc, and clever marketing sucked in all the yuppies who bought them, it was "cool" to drive a 4X4 diesel hence the demand for diesel was there. and the clever fuel companies locked on to the fact that people now wanted diesel so the price skyrocketed.

"Seems that it is no more than the great diesel ripoff." Could not agree more, and my next vehicle will "soon" be PETROL !!!
Regards
Des

swamp · Senior Member

Hi
imagine having a lpg/ diesel you could not sit down for a week .

rockylizard · Guru

Dave1952 wrote:
Of course the foaming is caused by the amount of so called detergent additive which is added to the diesel when it is in the refinery. I still cannot understand why diesel is so dear when it is the very first product from the refining process. I worked for a time in the petroleum industry but no one could, or would, give me an answer for diesel prices. Seems that it is no more than the great diesel ripoff.
Anyone got any thoughts or more information, or perhaps more knowledge than I have?

Gday...

The reason diesel is now the dearer fuel worldwide is mainly due to supply and demand. Any product that is in demand will attract bidding for the supply and that ultimately increases the market price -

The widening of the price difference is being driven by rising demand in Asia, China, India and parts of South America where diesel is more generally used as a fuel source for motor cars. As the number of cars on Asian, Chinese and Indian roads has soared in the recent years, distillate suppliers have struggled to meet ever-growing demand for diesel. So, the faster growing demand for diesel has supported higher global prices than for unleaded.

The market in Straya is much smaller than Asia, China and South America so we just can't compete with those countries for that limited supply.

Cheers - John

Dave1952 · Senior Member

Funny thing is that I have a former colleague who is currently working in Saudi Arabia where the price of diesel is the equivalent of 8 cents per litre Australian. So the Arab argument regarding supply and demand seems a little disproportionate, does it not? Of course we have the supply and demand issue here, due, in part, to governmental mismanagement. 20 years ago, Australia produced 90% of our own petroleum needs and only really had to import the heavier crudes for specific greases, etc. what did our intelligent government do? Sent all our oil offshore for refining and then had to reimport the refined products, despite the existence of refineries in Australia which were fully capable of doing the job. Look at our situation now!

The Belmont Bear · Guru

Just came back from working in the middle east I can't really comment on the price of diesel as only heavy vehicles seem to use it. I know it used to cost me the equivalent of around A$20 to fill my Yaris from empty with premium petrol which was about 1/3 of what you would have paid for the same thing here in Australia. I believe that the difference is mostly due to all the state and federal government taxes that they whack on in this country - don't quote me on this but I head somewhere that our prices are also related to the price of oil in Singapore.

Cheers

BB

fwdoz · Guru

I just went back through my log book for the past 3 years where I had logged the times on trips where we filled up using BP Ultimate Diesel. Cannot see any variation in economy compared to the APCO we use normally. The only other two we have filled up with have been Vortex & United. Of all of these, the Vortex seems to have a worse economy.

It was quite surprising to sit down & read my notes re headwinds, hills etc & apart from a high of 15.03L/100km which involved hills & roadworks, our economy has been both reasonable & consistent in the 13's range when towing. I also supect that high reading above was when with the van on the back I overtook some annoying snail whilst heading slightly uphill confuse

yobarr · Guru

fwdoz wrote:
I just went back through my log book for the past 3 years where I had logged the times on trips where we filled up using BP Ultimate Diesel. Cannot see any variation in economy compared to the APCO we use normally. The only other two we have filled up with have been Vortex & United. Of all of these, the Vortex seems to have a worse economy.
It was quite surprising to sit down & read my notes re headwinds, hills etc & apart from a high of 15.03L/100km which involved hills & roadworks, our economy has been both reasonable & consistent in the 13's range when towing. I also supect that high reading above was when with the van on the back I overtook some annoying snail whilst heading slightly uphill

Hmmmmm.....I have heard of owners of United servo declining to put that Diesel in their own car? Just saying.

fwdoz · Guru

yobarr wrote:
Hmmmmm.....I have heard of owners of United servo declining to put that Diesel in their own car? Just saying.

Yep. Heard some stories about 18 months ago & no longer touch United. We filled up at Bairnsdale just under 3 years ago was the last time. Never again.

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

'ere ya go Dave ... some data to absorb

https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/Saudi-Arabia/diesel_prices/ Straya's in there too.

https://theconversation.com/factcheck-do-australians-pay-high-petrol-taxes-29264

I reckon the answer is to sell up from Straya, jump on a boat and head to the country of ya choice.

I reckon I'm staying here though.

Cheers - John

aussie_paul · Guru

fwdoz wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Hmmmmm.....I have heard of owners of United servo declining to put that Diesel in their own car? Just saying.
Yep. Heard some stories about 18 months ago & no longer touch United. We filled up at Bairnsdale just under 3 years ago was the last time. Never again.

What was the problem fwdoz?

Aussie Paul. smile

fwdoz · Guru

aussie_paul wrote:
fwdoz wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Hmmmmm.....I have heard of owners of United servo declining to put that Diesel in their own car? Just saying.
Yep. Heard some stories about 18 months ago & no longer touch United. We filled up at Bairnsdale just under 3 years ago was the last time. Never again.
What was the problem fwdoz?
Aussie Paul.

The story going around was cases of dirty fuel at a few United outlets in Vic. There was also one United outlet in SE Vic where the wrong fuel got into the wrong underground tank, resulting in several buggered engines.

Dave1952 · Senior Member

I am not surprised about dirty fuel. If the underground tanks are getting a bit low, they will suck up the residue in the bottom of the tanks. When the tanks are installed, they are filled with water so they do not float when they are covered, especially n wet ground (of which there is not much these days in Queensland and New South Wales. They are then pumped out just before being filled with fuel, but are not blown dry prior to the fuel being pumped in.

Thanks John for the links. I have not had time to check them out yet but will do shortly.
Cheers
Dave

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Itâs road tax etc also . NZ has cheaper diesel . Although they pay mileage tax . Sticker on windscreen . Klrs on sticker must be higher than speedo . Not too many Speedo work on diesel in NZ !! Lol $1.40 . Over $2.00!for pertrol .

aussie_paul · Guru

fwdoz wrote:

The story going around was cases of dirty fuel at a few United outlets in Vic. There was also one United outlet in SE Vic where the wrong fuel got into the wrong underground tank, resulting in several buggered engines.

Did you have a buggered engine?

Aussie Paul. smile

fwdoz · Guru

aussie_paul wrote:
fwdoz wrote:

The story going around was cases of dirty fuel at a few United outlets in Vic. There was also one United outlet in SE Vic where the wrong fuel got into the wrong underground tank, resulting in several buggered engines.
Did you have a buggered engine?
Aussie Paul.

Not me. But it sure as hell got me making sure I never went near them from that point on. The poor buggers who did I believe got compensated after a bit of a bunfight.

Hetho · Senior Member

Good morning all.

Thank you for all the replays and input.

Regards.

Hetho

T1 Terry · Guru

Part of what pushes the diesel price up in Australia is how busy the mining industry is because they pay full price per ltr and go through the stuff at a rate not matched by any other diesel user group. Why would they sell to the domestic market, which is the smallest of their market share, at a price cheaper than their biggest market? They know full well you don't have a choice because you were conned into buying a diesel fuel vehicle in the first place.
As far as premium diesel v truck diesel ...... in general terms you are buying refinery grade diesel from the premium diesel pump but there is every chance you are buying a blended concoction from the truck diesel pump. Todays trucks are so over powered that a slight loss of performance isn't really noticeable and not too long back there were screams coming from the major engine manufacturers mechanical workshops about the quality of fuel causing havoc in the far more technically challenged engines resulting in a sort of black list among the long distance drivers on certain fuel outlets. Been out of the loop for some time now so no idea if that has settled down or if the offenders simply went to the wall due to lack of sales.
I own 3 diesel fuelled vehicles, I've used just about every fuel outlet branded fuel and a few of the name brand servo's truck fuel has resulted in a definite loss of performance and economy compared to others, but always the truck fuel pumps and never the premium pumps. Never had an issue using fuel from a high frequency servo even if it did have a United or other lesser known brand name out front and this is the best advertisement as to the quality of the fuel you can get. If it churns through the tanks regularly it is not likely to be full of rubbish no matter is it's petrol or diesel.
The one to remember is never fill up while the tanker is pumping into the tanks because that is when the rubbish on the bottom of the tank gets stirred up, nothing to do with the tank being full or near empty. The pick up in the servo tank is a set distance from the bottom of the tank to allow for a settling pool to allow water and rubbish to sink to the bottom. Only the long test pumps can reach the bottom of the tank to take a sample and remove the settled contaminants and anyone who has worked in a free hold servo knows the routine you have to go through at least once a week pumping the bottom of every tank to avoid the water in the fuel come backs getting any traction for their claims. Do the company owned servos carry out the same tank testing regime? Anyone worked in the modern company owned sites that can verify they have actually taken part in a tank testing pump out?

T1 Terry

aussie_paul · Guru

T1 Terry wrote:
Part of what pushes the diesel price up in Australia is how busy the mining industry is because they pay full price per ltr and go through the stuff at a rate not matched by any other diesel user group. Why would they sell to the domestic market, which is the smallest of their market share, at a price cheaper than their biggest market? They know full well you don't have a choice because you were conned into buying a diesel fuel vehicle in the first place.
As far as premium diesel v truck diesel ...... in general terms you are buying refinery grade diesel from the premium diesel pump but there is every chance you are buying a blended concoction from the truck diesel pump. Todays trucks are so over powered that a slight loss of performance isn't really noticeable and not too long back there were screams coming from the major engine manufacturers mechanical workshops about the quality of fuel causing havoc in the far more technically challenged engines resulting in a sort of black list among the long distance drivers on certain fuel outlets. Been out of the loop for some time now so no idea if that has settled down or if the offenders simply went to the wall due to lack of sales.
I own 3 diesel fuelled vehicles, I've used just about every fuel outlet branded fuel and a few of the name brand servo's truck fuel has resulted in a definite loss of performance and economy compared to others, but always the truck fuel pumps and never the premium pumps. Never had an issue using fuel from a high frequency servo even if it did have a United or other lesser known brand name out front and this is the best advertisement as to the quality of the fuel you can get. If it churns through the tanks regularly it is not likely to be full of rubbish no matter is it's petrol or diesel.
The one to remember is never fill up while the tanker is pumping into the tanks because that is when the rubbish on the bottom of the tank gets stirred up, nothing to do with the tank being full or near empty. The pick up in the servo tank is a set distance from the bottom of the tank to allow for a settling pool to allow water and rubbish to sink to the bottom. Only the long test pumps can reach the bottom of the tank to take a sample and remove the settled contaminants and anyone who has worked in a free hold servo knows the routine you have to go through at least once a week pumping the bottom of every tank to avoid the water in the fuel come backs getting any traction for their claims. Do the company owned servos carry out the same tank testing regime? Anyone worked in the modern company owned sites that can verify they have actually taken part in a tank testing pump out?

T1 Terry

Great post Terry, it is amazing what people post that is "hearsay" and treat it as gospel. I can't type fast enough to have written what you have. biggrin Thanks.

Aussie Paul. smile

T1 Terry · Guru

I'm a one finger typist, but I'm getting much quicker with all the practice over the yrs and I don't need to look for the letters as in the early days, I've even sort of mastered a second finger to press the shift key for the capitals :lol: but all left handed, if I try to add the right hand into the mix the letters are still all there but not in the correct order and it freaks out spell checker something serious wink

T1 Terry

aussie_paul · Guru

T1 Terry wrote:
I'm a one finger typist, but I'm getting much quicker with all the practice over the yrs and I don't need to look for the letters as in the early days, I've even sort of mastered a second finger to press the shift key for the capitals :lol: but all left handed, if I try to add the right hand into the mix the letters are still all there but not in the correct order and it freaks out spell checker something serious

T1 Terry

lol biggrin

Aussie Paul. smile

Jaahn · Guru

fwdoz wrote:
aussie_paul wrote:
fwdoz wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Hmmmmm.....I have heard of owners of United servo declining to put that Diesel in their own car? Just saying.
Yep. Heard some stories about 18 months ago & no longer touch United. We filled up at Bairnsdale just under 3 years ago was the last time. Never again.
What was the problem fwdoz?
Aussie Paul.
The story going around was cases of dirty fuel at a few United outlets in Vic. There was also one United outlet in SE Vic where the wrong fuel got into the wrong underground tank, resulting in several buggered engines.

Hi Great stories that get around on the 'net My mates bro in law knew someone, who knew someone who--------- Hmmmm

I was filling up at United the other day in Newcastle and spoke to the tanker driver who was filling the tanks so I asked him where he was bringing the fuel from. He said it all came from the local Caltex depot. Same fuel as goes to the Caltex stations at ~20c more per liter.

Just saying, and my first hand information from a real source standing in front of me -----

Jaahn

-- Edited by Jaahn on Tuesday 14th of August 2018 09:28:37 AM

yobarr · Guru

Jaahn wrote:
fwdoz wrote:
aussie_paul wrote:
fwdoz wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Hmmmmm.....I have heard of owners of United servo declining to put that Diesel in their own car? Just saying.
Yep. Heard some stories about 18 months ago & no longer touch United. We filled up at Bairnsdale just under 3 years ago was the last time. Never again.
What was the problem fwdoz?
Aussie Paul.
The story going around was cases of dirty fuel at a few United outlets in Vic. There was also one United outlet in SE Vic where the wrong fuel got into the wrong underground tank, resulting in several buggered engines.
Hi Great stories that get around on the 'net My mates bro in law knew someone who knew someone who--------- Hmmmm
I was filling up at United the other day and spoke to the tanker driver who was filling the tanks. Asked where he was bringing the fuel from. He said it all came from the local Caltex depot. Same fuel as goes to the Caltex stations at ~20c more per liter.
Jaahn

And you believe that?

rockylizard · Guru

Jaahn wrote:
Hi Great stories that get around on the 'net My mates bro in law knew someone who knew someone who--------- Hmmmm
I was filling up at United the other day and spoke to the tanker driver who was filling the tanks. Asked where he was bringing the fuel from. He said it all came from the local Caltex depot. Same fuel as goes to the Caltex stations at ~20c more per liter.
Jaahn

Gday...

It is always interesting to read comments and 'experiences' with the various brands, blends and grades of diesel people have ecnountered.

I keep a spreadsheet on my fuel usage, for the past 10 years with this Landy, and previously for my Hyundai Terracan and Hilux and Landcruiser going back a further 15 years years.

I use any fuel I find and usually try to buy the cheapest in a town whenever I can. When travelling inland and having limited choice I just fill with what's available at the, often only, servo in town.

The only fuel I do not ever use is E10 fuel.

My spreadsheet shows that there is no difference in consumption between tank fills that can be attributed to the brand, blend or grade of fuel used.

The terrain and weather conditions that are encountered with every tankful vary so much it is impossible to provide a definite indication that a particular brand, blend or grade of fuel has been used.

I have never noticed any drop in performance in the motor, or increase in performance in the motor, just because of a fuel fill.

Even if one were to fill their tank with X brand/blend/grade of fuel and then drive the a 400Km loop, refill at the same town with the same fuel from the same servo and do the same 400km loop again ... and repeat this for a year, the changes in traffic - meeting slow vehicles some days but not others, accelerating to pass someone (or not), wind direction and speed, temperature, tyre pressures, and a host of other uncontrollable circumstances make it virtually impossible to conclusively pinpoint that a particular brand, blend, grade of fuel, even from the same servo is the contributing factor to the performance, or economy, of a vehicle. Geez - and what about minute differences in each tanker load to that servo.

Cheers - just fill up, drive, and enjoy the journey - John

T1 Terry · Guru

yobarr wrote:
Jaahn wrote:
fwdoz wrote:
aussie_paul wrote:
fwdoz wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Hmmmmm.....I have heard of owners of United servo declining to put that Diesel in their own car? Just saying.
Yep. Heard some stories about 18 months ago & no longer touch United. We filled up at Bairnsdale just under 3 years ago was the last time. Never again.
What was the problem fwdoz?
Aussie Paul.
The story going around was cases of dirty fuel at a few United outlets in Vic. There was also one United outlet in SE Vic where the wrong fuel got into the wrong underground tank, resulting in several buggered engines.
Hi Great stories that get around on the 'net My mates bro in law knew someone who knew someone who--------- Hmmmm
I was filling up at United the other day and spoke to the tanker driver who was filling the tanks. Asked where he was bringing the fuel from. He said it all came from the local Caltex depot. Same fuel as goes to the Caltex stations at ~20c more per liter.
Jaahn

And you believe that?

Does United have a fuel distribution depot that runs fuel to all the United servos? Let's face it, unless it is a servo linked to a particular fuel depot that blends special fuel for them, it is going to be the same fuel from the same depot distributed to all the branded service stations. It isn't until you get to the really big fuel turn over fuel outlets that have separate tanks for truck diesel compared to servo bowser "Premium diesel" that blending from different tankers might occur. It would require a high fuel turn over to cover the transport costs of a tanker full of blended fuel that was at a lower price per ltr wholesale than what was available from the local depot to make it worth the effort and offer a few cents per ltr discount to attract the high volume sales.

The freehold servos such as United and other such names don't have a company set selling price so they can cut margins in an attempt to increase turn over resulting in the same $$ per day profit but no advertising overheads to pay for so effectively catching up a bit of the higher price they have to pay for their fuel compared to the company owned and operated sites. The ones that really suffer are the company owned but run by someone trying to run their own small business because they get shafted from both sides and they are the ones that have disappeared over the yrs.

T1 Terry