sentry lithium batteries

terriwa · Senior Member

sentry lithium batteries

T1 Terry · Guru

Do you have a link?

T1 Terry

T1 Terry · Guru

OK, I found this link to a PDF www.rpc.com.au/pdf/sentry_bluetooth_manual.pdf Interesting reading. Only specially marked batteries can be connected in series, denoted by an "S" on the end of the part number, but all can be connected in parallel as long as their connection sequence is followed to a maximum of 4 batteries. A Paralleled bank can not be link to another paralleled bank in series. If a single battery in a paralleled bank fails, all the batteries must be replaced as a unit. they must be charged to 100% capacity at least every 3 mths. There is a whole lot more that is required for parallel connection and they sort all follow what I have been saying about any battery chemistry connected in parallel, but they will still run into problems with more than 2 batteries in parallel connected that way ....... experience a cruel master and the lessons are rather expensive. At $1890 per 100Ah and $2340 per 120Ah battery, that is a very expensive lithium battery, wish I could sell them at the price and then add installation on top. No idea if those prices are plus GST and plus freight either, lithium batteries are very expensive to freight within Australia.

T1 Terry

fwdoz · Guru

T1 Terry wrote:
Only specially marked batteries can be connected in series, denoted by an "S" on the end of the part number, but all can be connected in parallel as long as their connection sequence is followed to a maximum of 4 batteries.

T1 Terry

Not wanting to hijack the thread, but another brand has popped up recently as well on the Satplus website (see link).

https://www.satplus.com.au/products/solarking-lithium-battery-100-ah?variant=18536159117381

Whats your thoughts T1 Terry?

msg · Guru

I have installed them. Had for 8months so far. Seems to be working as expected. Always have heaps of power. Luckily, I didn't pay that much for them. and they were installed by son, so no installation costs. $3500 all up for 2x80amps. Includes new battery management system, solar panel and a few other bits. Not a large system but its as much as available space will allow.

Mamil · Senior Member

We use Sentry Lithium batteries at work. We build large scale solar power systems, and use the Sentry batteries as the backup power supply in the control and communications systems. For this purpose we've found them reliable and perform to spec. You can pay a bit more for the ones with Bluetooth which is a nice option being able to monitor the battery from a phone app, but something you quickly tire of in my opinion. They are at the medium to high end of the price range for Lithium, which is worth it for commercial systems which experience more varied environmental conditions and demand high reliability, but when it came to spending my own money for my caravan I bought a cheaper brand - Fusion - which was about $1000 for 100Ah. I've not had any issues with the Fusion so far.

-- Edited by Mamil on Thursday 20th of December 2018 10:27:42 PM

msg · Guru

Mine must have the bluetooth. Son monitors it on his Ipod.? My Galaxy is too old for the program.(but it suits me and is great for my ebooks.)

-- Edited by msg on Friday 21st of December 2018 01:11:25 AM

T1 Terry · Guru

fwdoz wrote:
T1 Terry wrote:
Only specially marked batteries can be connected in series, denoted by an "S" on the end of the part number, but all can be connected in parallel as long as their connection sequence is followed to a maximum of 4 batteries.

T1 Terry
Not wanting to hijack the thread, but another brand has popped up recently as well on the Satplus website (see link).
https://www.satplus.com.au/products/solarking-lithium-battery-100-ah?variant=18536159117381
Whats your thoughts T1 Terry?

Every man and his dog are into sticker branding these days but none of them have much of an idea about the product they are selling. The give away in most cases is the max continuous discharge, a true 100Ah LiFeP04 battery doesn't really have a continuous discharge max or a peak discharge max. They provide a chart to show the length of discharge possible at various loads, right up to 5CA or in the case of a 100Ah battery, 500 amps, so a 10 sec pulse of 100 amps says it is a poorly constructed 100Ah battery or it isn't truly a 100Ah capacity battery.

The biggest con lately is to advertise the battery capacity as compared to an AGM battery, so their claimed 100Ah is really a 50Ah or 60Ah battery.

If there are no graph charts showing the voltage curve over time at different discharge and recharge voltages and the temperature chart for charging and discharging, stay well clear of it. If they can't show you they have repeatedly tested their product then it shows clearly they haven't. Anything they say in the spiel is just talk if they haven't tested it to be fact and have the test results available for public display.

T1 Terry

fwdoz · Guru

T1 Terry wrote:
The give away in most cases is the max continuous discharge, a true 100Ah LiFeP04 battery doesn't really have a continuous discharge max or a peak discharge max. They provide a chart to show the length of discharge possible at various loads, right up to 5CA or in the case of a 100Ah battery, 500 amps, so a 10 sec pulse of 100 amps says it is a poorly constructed 100Ah battery or it isn't truly a 100Ah capacity battery.
If there are no graph charts showing the voltage curve over time at different discharge and recharge voltages and the temperature chart for charging and discharging, stay well clear of it.
T1 Terry

Thanks Terry. I am investigating whether to change to Lithium by February when my van gets fitted out for the Nullarbor & Cape York trips in the next 2 years.

With so many brands everywhere it makes it more difficult to narrow down the list, as Lithium is still in it's early stages. For those of us who find it a little hard to follow & grasp this technology, it becomes a nightmare wading through pages of data trying to figure out which is fact & what is propoganda.

It is a fine line between buying good lithium at a reasonable cost vs unknowingly purchasing something borderline that could end up being a nightmare. I will continue to do some more reading in an attempt to get my head around it all.

Noelpolar · Veteran Member

I've just bought a 200ah one of these.... www.ev-power.com.au/product/ev-powerpak/

Worth a look....just under $2k delivered to Goolwa with BMS.

-- Edited by Noelpolar on Saturday 22nd of December 2018 08:28:23 AM

Brenda and Alan · Guru

Does anyone know what type of lithium chemistry is used in these batteries. Are they Li/phosphate or some form of the Li/Polomer group. Their discharge profile would suggest they are not LiPo4.

Alan

-- Edited by Brenda and Alan on Monday 24th of December 2018 07:27:48 PM

-- Edited by Brenda and Alan on Monday 24th of December 2018 07:28:22 PM

Mamil · Senior Member

Brenda and Alan wrote:
Does anyone know what type of lithium chemistry is used in these batteries. Are they Li/phosphate or some form of the Li/Polomer group. Their discharge profile would suggest they are not LiPo4.
Alan

-- Edited by Brenda and Alan on Monday 24th of December 2018 07:27:48 PM

-- Edited by Brenda and Alan on Monday 24th of December 2018 07:28:22 PM

If you mean the Sentry brand, they are Lithium Iron Phosphate or LiFePO4.

T1 Terry · Guru

fwdoz wrote:
T1 Terry wrote:
The give away in most cases is the max continuous discharge, a true 100Ah LiFeP04 battery doesn't really have a continuous discharge max or a peak discharge max. They provide a chart to show the length of discharge possible at various loads, right up to 5CA or in the case of a 100Ah battery, 500 amps, so a 10 sec pulse of 100 amps says it is a poorly constructed 100Ah battery or it isn't truly a 100Ah capacity battery.
If there are no graph charts showing the voltage curve over time at different discharge and recharge voltages and the temperature chart for charging and discharging, stay well clear of it.
T1 Terry
Thanks Terry. I am investigating whether to change to Lithium by February when my van gets fitted out for the Nullarbor & Cape York trips in the next 2 years.
With so many brands everywhere it makes it more difficult to narrow down the list, as Lithium is still in it's early stages. For those of us who find it a little hard to follow & grasp this technology, it becomes a nightmare wading through pages of data trying to figure out which is fact & what is propoganda.
It is a fine line between buying good lithium at a reasonable cost vs unknowingly purchasing something borderline that could end up being a nightmare. I will continue to do some more reading in an attempt to get my head around it all.

No doubt this will get me attacked by the usual suspects, but genuine yrs of experience with LiFeP04 batteries used as house batteries that can be backed up by contacting people who are actually using their system for the number of yrs the seller claims and asking them what they think of their investment and if they would do it again.

Sadly, many claim they have many yrs of lithium battery experience but once you tunnel down, their experience was with hobby planes etc and not the same chemistry nor house battery use. If they claim they have more than 7 yrs of LiFeP04 battery experience, ask them why they left working for NASA, they are the ones with more than 7 yrs house battery experience, not someone selling something on evilbay or the internet.

T1 Terry

Jaahn · Guru

T1 Terry wrote:
fwdoz wrote:
Thanks Terry. I am investigating whether to change to Lithium by February when my van gets fitted out for the Nullarbor & Cape York trips in the next 2 years.
With so many brands everywhere it makes it more difficult to narrow down the list, as Lithium is still in it's early stages. For those of us who find it a little hard to follow & grasp this technology, it becomes a nightmare wading through pages of data trying to figure out which is fact & what is propoganda.
It is a fine line between buying good lithium at a reasonable cost vs unknowingly purchasing something borderline that could end up being a nightmare. I will continue to do some more reading in an attempt to get my head around it all.
No doubt this will get me attacked by the usual suspects, but genuine yrs of experience with LiFeP04 batteries used as house batteries that can be backed up by contacting people who are actually using their system for the number of yrs the seller claims and asking them what they think of their investment and if they would do it again.
Sadly, many claim they have many yrs of lithium battery experience but once you tunnel down, their experience was with hobby planes etc and not the same chemistry nor house battery use. If they claim they have more than 7 yrs of LiFeP04 battery experience, ask them why they left working for NASA, they are the ones with more than 7 yrs house battery experience, not someone selling something on evilbay or the internet.
T1 Terry

Hi Terry smile

This might surprise you but I think that simple statement is good and stands as good advice. Just leave it at that IMHO. Always buyer beware off the cheap sellers.

If fwdoz wants to get more information then he should know how to PM you.

Jaahn

fwdoz · Guru

Jaahn wrote:
Always buyer beware off the cheap sellers.
If fwdoz wants to get more information then he should know how to PM you.
Jaahn

Been an awful long time since I bought on price alone. Experiences we have when younger teach us to investigate more, learn more & ask questions. Have for a long time done my due diligence before purchasing & will continue to do so.

Thats one reason why I asked Terry; he is thorough with his responses & I respect his answers.

T1 Terry · Guru

Well thank you Bob and Jaahn, it seems Christmas presents come in all forms smile Unfortunately, price alone won't work as a filter as many sellers are well aware of the traps of selling a new technology at a rock bottom price, "too good to be true" and the famous Benjamin Franklin quote: "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.

Many sellers are now putting a "just below" premium price on poor quality lithium battery packs and get away with it by sealing the whole thing up in a case so no one can check if the sales blurb is fact or fiction without outlaying a lot of money they will never be able to recover. No refund once the "seal" is broken. If the product is truly as good as the blurb claims then it should come with a very long warranty.

The clearest indication the technology used in their "BMS" isn't quite as good as they claim, is the fact they do not show the cell voltages as part of their monitoring display. Let's face it, if their system really does work then they would have no hesitation in displaying just how well it is working as proof their system's superiority and that it actually works.

I could go into just how a cell balancing system alone can not protect the cells from damage and that this is how all batteries are built and all fail at cell level failure and not over all battery failure ... but that is going off topic and will not be taken well wink smile

T1 Terry

msg · Guru

Well, Terry, we should all believe that what you are selling is the only option and thus buy from you. Tired of you using this forum as a sales platform.

Ron-D · Guru

msg wrote:
Well, Terry, we should all believe that what you are selling is the only option and thus buy from you. Tired of you using this forum as a sales platform.

Painfully obvious we should start a new part of the forum especially for Terry ,I think he has his fans but in my opinion Terry I wish you would give it a rest, it would be nice to here from others your killing this segment of the forum its like you now own it...

T1 Terry · Guru

Ron-D wrote:
msg wrote:
Well, Terry, we should all believe that what you are selling is the only option and thus buy from you. Tired of you using this forum as a sales platform.
Painfully obvious we should start a new part of the forum especially for Terry ,I think he has his fans but in my opinion Terry I wish you would give it a rest, it would be nice to here from others your killing this segment of the forum its like you now own it...

Seriously you lot, do you really think I'm the only lithium battery builder that monitors cell voltage and uses that as the base of control?

Instead of attacking you should spend a few hrs on the web and check out just how many lithium battery builders now use this method. Did I or have I ever mentioned the name of my wife's business nor say we built the only system that uses cell monitoring? What I will say is I have the longest recorded history in Australia, if not the world, on testing the use of lithium ferrous phosphate cells for the purpose of 12v and 24v house battery use. Look it up on the web, you might not like what you find wink

These forums are a validation of the Will Rogers' definition of an expert: "An expert is a man 50 miles from home with a briefcase." Maybe the 50 miles should read "outside his own country" when we talk about being born in Australia I don't claim to be the "expert" on lithium batteries or even LiFeP04 cell chemistry, I think Professor Jay Whitacre would be deemed to hold that title, but I am the one with the most hands on experience with using LIFEp04 batteries as house batteries. No one goes even close to having as many test rigs out in the field or for as many yrs as I have, yet in this country I always have to validate myself when giving information away for free hmm

Maybe my New Yrs soul searching question should be the one that is put to me more than any other question "Why do I bother?"

T1 Terry

Dickodownunder · Guru

Ron-D wrote:
msg wrote:
Well, Terry, we should all believe that what you are selling is the only option and thus buy from you. Tired of you using this forum as a sales platform.
Painfully obvious we should start a new part of the forum especially for Terry ,I think he has his fans but in my opinion Terry I wish you would give it a rest, it would be nice to here from others your killing this segment of the forum its like you now own it...

And these two comments have helped HOW??

This is part of what is referred to in this topic.

https://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t65178068/arguments-on-solar-anything/

A more productive reply may have been to answer the OPs question IF you have the knowledge. If you dont have the knowledge to answer the OP then dont drag the topic into an argument to suit your own agenda.

T1 has never suggested to anyone on this forum to buy from him, contact him or use his services, in fact in the four years I have been on here the only time I have seen T1 interact with another member as far as supplying anything is concerned is when he gave a guy a couple of diodes.....note the word GAVE.....free, no profit, no money earned.

Dont spoil it for the others, if you do not like T1 posting on here then dont read his posts.

While T1 and some knowledgeable others post on these topics then we all may benefit from their knowledge which is offered free and without attached conditions, and the information is coming from qualified people.

Ron-D · Guru

Well your entitaled to your opinion I found the sort of answers that we used to get on things that took just a few lines straight to the point and simple just great not self serving and helpfull ,this long diatribe that goes on forever and ever is very confusing self serving boring and hard to understand, mate if thats the sort of answers that rocks your boat god luck to you ,but too me its ridiculous...

You dont have to be a genius to work out why most of the really helpfull knowledgeable people are no longer posting ,well most of us can figure it out, I miss the guys that used to post here with there short straight to the point answers guess thats a thing of the past shame really...

-- Edited by Ron-D on Sunday 30th of December 2018 05:46:31 PM

T1 Terry · Guru

Just quick question Ron, what happened when there was more than one short straight answer? Without some type of backing that explained how that answer determined, how did anyone know which answer was right, or in fact if any of them were right? By providing the path to how the answer was determined allows all who are interest to check the figures for themselves and also substitute their own known figures and see what they came up with, then if they were not certain they had got it right they could put up their calculations for others to check.
The age old, "give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach him how to fish and he can feed himself and his family" applies here as much as anywhere.

T1 Terry

Ron-D · Guru

Terry if you dont believe that most of the questions asked here cant be answered without going into the depth you go too,you must be delusional...

you ware people down mate other knowable people dont post here in my view because of you now your warring me down biggrin

-- Edited by Ron-D on Monday 31st of December 2018 05:30:29 PM

-- Edited by Ron-D on Monday 31st of December 2018 05:32:06 PM

T1 Terry · Guru

I don't see any problems with those who have no interest in learning something new, I do see a problem when some try their hardest to stop others from having the chance to learn. Which category do you see yourself in Ron?

T1 Terry

Baz421 · Guru

T1 Terry wrote:
I don't see any problems with those who have no interest in learning something new, I do see a problem when some try their hardest to stop others from having the chance to learn. Which category do you see yourself in Ron?

T1 Terry

Probably neither T1 he's just stating an opinion and he doesn't need to feel obligated to fit into any perceived "category".

T1 Terry · Guru

Baz421 wrote:
T1 Terry wrote:
I don't see any problems with those who have no interest in learning something new, I do see a problem when some try their hardest to stop others from having the chance to learn. Which category do you see yourself in Ron?

T1 Terry
Probably neither T1 he's just stating an opinion and he doesn't need to feel obligated to fit into any perceived "category".

:lol: yet the same people choose to slot me into a "perceived category" :lol:

Happy New Yr

T1 Terry

Ron-D · Guru

Terry your your own worst enemy,I respect your hnowledge but you have an overtop way of delivering it ,when reading some of your posts I feel this Could be explained in A simpler manner,and just switch off ,Tone things down and let others have a fair go forget about trying to be the guru..

this is my last post on this Terry it will end up personal and silly ,this is good forum and I have probably gone on enough with this to much already,

-- Edited by Ron-D on Tuesday 1st of January 2019 04:48:49 PM

Dickodownunder · Guru

There are probably many on here that wish that others would EXPLAIN IT instead of ridiculing someone who does offer, in most cases, a consice description and explanation of the situation.

From my observation the very people who consistently throw criticism toward genuine contributors force those people to actually go over to top just to cover their respective hind quarters to support what they say.
This almost always results in more information provided on a tangent to the original simple answer.
Read back on most of these technical questions to see just how a couple of knowledgeable members have had to defend their answers against some who have the need to display how they may attack with a totally off topic banter statement again, just to railroad the topic for their own personal agenda.
The PWM....MPPT threads are a classic.....

Once again, nothing to contribute to the OP question, then leave the topic to those who provide the information requested.

Having said that we would all like for you to contribute if you can offer some sound input ON THE SUBJECT..

Baz421 · Guru

Dickodownunder wrote:
There are probably many on here that wish that others would EXPLAIN IT instead of ridiculing someone who does offer, in most cases, a consice description and explanation of the situation.

From my observation the very people who consistently throw criticism toward genuine contributors force those people to actually go over to top just to cover their respective hind quarters to support what they say.
This almost always results in more information provided on a tangent to the original simple answer.
Read back on most of these technical questions to see just how a couple of knowledgeable members have had to defend their answers against some who have the need to display how they may attack with a totally off topic banter statement again, just to railroad the topic for their own personal agenda.
The PWM....MPPT threads are a classic.....

Once again, nothing to contribute to the OP question, then leave the topic to those who provide the information requested.

Having said that we would all like for you to contribute if you can offer some sound input ON THE SUBJECT..

I probably agree with the thrust of your post, however the issues are often:

answers are NOT concise or directed to OP in MANY CASE
no one needs to cover their hindquarters as you say IF their advice is 100% factual,,,
many do rail road topics for their own purposes and this will not stop unless we have peoples names details etc in public view (yours included)
anonymity makes some feel like real men IMHO.

I was going to enter the results of my field testing (not theory) of PWM versus MPPT but decided not to as it would only resume the battle for some.

Nuff said.

Dickodownunder · Guru

Baz421 wrote:
Dickodownunder wrote:
There are probably many on here that wish that others would EXPLAIN IT instead of ridiculing someone who does offer, in most cases, a consice description and explanation of the situation.

From my observation the very people who consistently throw criticism toward genuine contributors force those people to actually go over to top just to cover their respective hind quarters to support what they say.
This almost always results in more information provided on a tangent to the original simple answer.
Read back on most of these technical questions to see just how a couple of knowledgeable members have had to defend their answers against some who have the need to display how they may attack with a totally off topic banter statement again, just to railroad the topic for their own personal agenda.
The PWM....MPPT threads are a classic.....

Once again, nothing to contribute to the OP question, then leave the topic to those who provide the information requested.

Having said that we would all like for you to contribute if you can offer some sound input ON THE SUBJECT..
I probably agree with the thrust of your post, however the issues are often:
answers are NOT concise or directed to OP in MANY CASE
no one needs to cover their hindquarters as you say IF their advice is 100% factual,,,
many do rail road topics for their own purposes and this will not stop unless we have peoples names details etc in public view (yours included)
anonymity makes some feel like real men IMHO.
I was going to enter the results of my field testing (not theory) of PWM versus MPPT but decided not to as it would only resume the battle for some.
Nuff said.

Hi Baz421

First up thank you for agreeing with my basic intention.

Please dont bring the regulator discussion into this thread, I found it the worst example of the ...

mine is better than yours... representation out of hundreds of posts on here.

I only mentioned it purely as an example of how bad a topic can degrade.

Read over this topic and there are very few that answered the question.

We had others who stated that they had batteries fitted but no one actually knows as to what type of batteries because someone else said that they had found other branded batteries in posts immediately above. Were these posts referring to the original poster questions.....who the hell would know.

Then we have the detractors that claim that the only member that offered any assessment of the batteries did so to be able to sell his batteries to the OP or anyone else reading the topic.

To quote another on here who uses this terminology with regularity on this forum....Spare Me....

There is no requirement to provide your name and details when joining this forum and if your comment Baz, was referring to me then I make no claim whatsoever to have any more than an extremely basic knowledge of batteries, solar, regulators, wiring, 240 v electrical standards or anything else related to these subjects.

Having said that I would like to include that I am reasonably intelligent and can understand most technical explanations if provided concisely and accurately....I do come from a technical background.

I can assure you Baz that my anonymity on the public forum has no reflection on my manhood and to suggest the same on any forum which is subject to scrutiny on the internet is ridiculous.

If you wish to provide your private credentials to all and sundry then go right ahead mate.

In the times I have communicated with the Admin on here I have openly provided my name as my identification.

My effort in exposing these actions by some others is to try to make this a BETTER place for providing simple answers to simple questions and if necessary provide a great platform on which technical subjects can be discussed and debated in a polite and concise manner without the ridicule and ONEUPMANSHIP that exists at present. The forum could just become a valuable resource if topics and posts are contributed with respect and thought for others.

Baz if you have some information on solar controllers which may be applicable to our RV vehicles then, by all means put it up in the appropriate forum and let us all benefit from your testing, findings and knowledge but to enter your thought as a challenge to another wont help anyone in the end.

-- Edited by Dickodownunder on Tuesday 1st of January 2019 09:17:05 PM