Alko 10inch brakes

Michael Frances · Member

Alko 10inch brakes

Possum3 · Guru

You should direct you weight concerns to Colin Young Chief Engineer at Caravan Council of Australia www.caravancouncil.com.au/ He will guide you through the mystery of weights and tolerances. He is a great guy and always helpful to van owners.

PeterD · Guru

What is the GTM and/or the weight on the wheels? The brakes on your van are controlling the load on the axle. The ball weight is carried by the tug and it is the tugs brakes that control that weight.

Working on those figures you would need 330 kg on the ball of the van (which may overload the tow bars ball weight) to keep the weights within limits.

You seem to have a problem. If the van is fairly new then this is something the manufacturer should sort out. The compliance plate should have a maximum axle weight listed on it. What is that figure?

I can look into it more when I return late afternoon.

jegog · Senior Member

The brakes are breaking the full mass of the van. The weight on the axel and ball is not a factor. The brakes are attempting to stop the van from moving horizontally, not vertically.
Of course the brakes of the tow vehicle contributes to the breaking forces on the van.
And is the rating per a single wheel or a pair of wheels?

PeterD · Guru

jegog wrote:
The brakes are breaking the full mass of the van.

The brakes break nothing. They are only required to stop the load on the axle. Next time you do some tyre kicking at a caravan show have a look at the compliance plates. You will see a few with the GTM close to the axle rating and the ATM over the axle rating.You occasionally see vans where the GTM exceeds the axle rating. (I spotted two of them on one stand, pointed this out to a salesman who promptly locked the boots and said "we will have to do something about that later.")

The problem the OP is having is that I suspect the GTM of his van exceeds the axle weight.

swamp · Senior Member

hi
Pig trailer
Single axle cap average 1500kgs
single axle braking capacity 1500kg

Dual axle 2oookg max loaded
Dual axle braking capacity 1x axle brake capacity 1500kg

Over 2 Ton all axles braked
weight rating is the component that carries the least rating

axle capacity
wheel bearing cap.
rim cap.
tyre cap.
springs cap.
chassis cap.

twin axle non load sharing suspension generic suspension is derated unless otherwise engineered .
independent coil spring refer maker

Michael Frances · Member

Thanks for your advice. The axle group on the compliance plate is 1700 kg. Does this mean the van is over weight.

Michael Frances · Member

Thanks for your advice. The axle group on the compliance plate is 1700 kg. Does this mean the van is over weight.

swamp · Senior Member

Axle assembly limit // van gross limit might be 2000kgs with 1600 kg brakes .

The weight on the axle might be 150--170 kgs less since that's on the towball

Follow up with van maker

If u still donot get a good response ,go to a weigh station and weigh fully loaded .
Also measure ball weight fully loaded .

Is it a Francis with/without adventure pack and what other options microwave /tv /aircon etc etc

Base Tare is 1490kgs

+ adventure pack 170kgs

www.avanadelaide.com.au/caravans/avan-caravans/hardtop-range

-- Edited by swamp on Tuesday 19th of March 2019 12:04:16 AM

PeterD · Guru

Michael, you can keep within your limits if you can keep your ball weigh up at 230 kg. This will give a ball loading of around 12%.

If you are not happy with those close limits imposed upon you I suggest you do as I did. I got caught with a van with discounted tare figure. I had an 1480 kg weight on a 1600 kg axle. I had the axle replaced with a 2,000 kg model. This brought the tare up to 1500 kg and I had the van certified for 2,000 kg ATM. As travelers spending months at a time on the road we use most of that 500 kg load allowance which includes 80 kg of water.

I think that if you are going to do extended traveling you will also exceed your approx 300 kg load allowance. If you install a 2,000 kg axle you will be able to have the van certified for 2,150 kg ATM and 1,950 kg GTM. This will give you a load capacity of 500 kg and allow you to carry a tank of water in that allowance. My figures are attached you should be able to view them in M$ Word.

Michael Frances · Member

Hi PeterD,
great explanation, thanks.
I will speak to Avan in May(booked in for a few warranty issues). and get their feedback.
Upgrading the axle(if the chasis can take it) looks like the logical step.
I assume this will result in new tyres, as the tyres have a rating of 950kg each.

Hi Swamp, std Frances van, 1615kg tare, 1930kg ATM, 10" brakes, 1700kg axle group. Straight out of the factory with all the bells and whistles at the Avan factory, so that the tare weight would include all the extras.

Hi Jegog, brake rating is per set of brakes, in this case the 2 brakes on the single axle.

Michael Frances · Member

Ooops, Hi PeterD,
if I increase the axle size, the question is ...are the 10" brakes on the single axle under sized? SOonds like I will have to go to 12" brakes...do you agree

regards Michael

yobarr · Guru

Michael Frances wrote:
Ooops, Hi PeterD,
if I increase the axle size, the question is ...are the 10" brakes on the single axle under sized? SOonds like I will have to go to 12" brakes...do you agree

regards Michael

Depends on wheel size.With 16 wheels 10 brakes are good for 1400kg per axle.If the wheels are smaller,that figure increases,but Im not sure by how much.The smaller the diameter,the less braking needed to stop the wheels turning.Cheers.

P.S Just did some research that shows,with 13 and 14 wheels,you are allowed 1600kg/axle when you are using 10 drum brakes.

-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 19th of March 2019 04:33:07 PM

-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 19th of March 2019 04:39:52 PM

-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 19th of March 2019 04:41:56 PM

PeterD · Guru

Michael Frances wrote:
Ooops, Hi PeterD,
if I increase the axle size, the question is ...are the 10" brakes on the single axle under sized? Sounds like I will have to go to 12" brakes...do you agree

Everything will be replaced. Rims, tyres, brakes axle and springs. It is not a cheap exercise but it is worth it. That is why I suggest you try for assistance from the agent/manufacturer.

Michael Frances · Member

Hi PeterD,
I have contacted Colin Young. What a great bloke.
Very helpful.
Our van is compliant.
As you suggested I will speak to Avan about the cost of upgrading the ATM and if it is worth it. I think the chassis will be a point of interest.
Love the van and the single axle, just would like another 100kg of load. The 315kg is small , once you fill the water tanks & gas bottles(210kg).
On the other hand, do we really need all the paraphernalia when out there.
Thanks Peter.
regards Michael

swamp · Senior Member

Hi
If Under 2 ton 10 inch brakes are legal .The rating in kgs for a 650mm wheel at 1400--1500kgs . If going to 16 inch wheel greater than 750mm weight rating is derated 100-200kgs . Although 10 inch are legal brake wise nearly all 16inch wheels should have 12 inch brakes . Not only better braking but they should last longer .

PeterD · Guru

I don't know where you got that data from Swampy. The AlKo web site indicates that a pair of 10" brakes cater for loaded weights up to 1600 kg. See Electric Drum Brakes

yobarr · Guru

swamp wrote:
Hi
If Under 2 ton 10 inch brakes are legal .The rating in kgs for a 650mm wheel at 1400--1500kgs . If going to 16 inch wheel greater than 750mm weight rating is derated 100-200kgs . Although 10 inch are legal brake wise nearly all 16inch wheels should have 12 inch brakes . Not only better braking but they should last longer .

If you have 16 wheels (or 15) and 10 brakes,you are limited to 1400kg/axle.That rating rises to 1600kg/axle if you have 13 or 14 wheels.Cheers

swamp · Senior Member

HI
The good trailer mob in brissy has pdf doco Vehicle components
Trailer weight on single axle depends on its design and material its made out of.

Axle rating for parallel or ford bearing 45mmsq starts at 1450--1600 and derates itself if fitted with bigger dimeter tyres .

Axle tip is under greater load
axle bearing under greater load
Brakes loose effectiveness due to the increased diameter tyres having xtra leverage on brakes

-- Edited by swamp on Saturday 23rd of March 2019 05:28:57 PM