BT50/Ranger Auto Transmission Cooling.

iana · Guru

BT50/Ranger Auto Transmission Cooling.

yobarr · Guru

iana wrote:
Just had the vehicle serviced, and the transmission oil is burnt, needs changing. We are hauling a heavy load, driving by transmission temperature, with the scan gauge never going over 108 c. The dealers do not know anything about the temperature problem, and all of the third party agents advise the fitting of an external cooler.
Now one of the things the sellers are saying, is that with the "engine coolant against the transmission oil", plate heat exchanger, one of the big problems is coolant getting into the transmission oil, very scary they say.
However I cannot find even one reference on the net, of a post saying this has been an issue. And my conclusion is, is that this is just scaremongering in order to get sales. now I am not talking about the transmission oil passing through tubes in the engine coolant radiator, this is about a separate plate heat exchanger unit, attached near the auto gearbox.
I am wondering if anyone has had an issue, or has seen an issue with these units, as opposed to quoting heresy claims by others.

-- Edited by iana on Friday 31st of May 2019 06:34:37 AM

No experience with your model car,but I believe that BA Falcons often had problems with coolant getting in to the transmission oil....Ford and Mazda are blood brothers? Just a thought.Cheers

swamp · Senior Member

HI
Over heating a transmission is subjective . How long and often is the trans temp above 100 deg cel ?

There are 2 ways as i have been informed is fit an after maket cooler . Available in kit form
AND
Trans does have an internal thermostat . There are bypass kits that work well also .

Have your trans guy fit kit and possible thermostat bybass if siutable for your trans type .

As a side note ,all oil wears out some quicker than others when heat is involved . There is no need for sump temps tobe over 100deg cel ever .!!!! Long term heat exposure will and does wear out internal parts and obviously shortens its life . A hotter average temp increase costs at overhaul time .

iana · Guru

Please read the question, I am interested only in establishing if there is a problem with the plate heat exchanger, or is it just scare mongering.

blaze · Guru

My brother just done a lap, trans failure in Perth, broken pitman arm in Williams, sold when he got home. Ford ranger. Also had a few other little problems.
cheers
blaze

STRETCH ARMSTRONG · Senior Member

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-advice/q-and-a/ford-ranger-cooler-failure-30837 This is the main issue l've read about.

iana · Guru

Nup sorry Stretch, that article in not about the auto transmission cooler. If this was a Myth Busters project, then they would say " This Myth is done and dusted", just false advertising and scare mongering.

kesa32 · Senior Member

If your coolant is in good condition you shouldn't have a problem re the internal radiator system , yes father in laws ba ford did the milkshake
Question, are you towing in performance mode all the time or Drive ?

Also yes an external cooler will help return the oil in a cooler state than the radiator system will , btw the gearbox has its own built in temp control to help with quicker warm up times and regulate oil temp as best as it can

Towing heavy loads ld run an external cooler personally , extreme heat is a killer for any auto

-- Edited by kesa32 on Saturday 1st of June 2019 04:03:14 PM

Olive Oil · Senior Member

Easily fixed, buy a lighter caravan.

Ron-D · Guru

My Isuzu motor is the same engine that they fit in trucks it Should be bullet proof on hills biggrin

Bill B · Guru

Olive Oil wrote:

Easily fixed, buy a lighter caravan.

Real helpful DD

Nothing changed except your user name.

Warren-Pat_01 · Guru

G'day Ian,
You pose an interesting question. It has always been a recommendation to use an external cooler for an auto transmission when towing AND I'm very much aware of the earlier Ford issue. What's better - a cooked transmission or coolant in the transmission? Both sound VERY expensive.

My first Patrol (3.3L diesel) had an engine oil cooler on it - a block of alloy bolted on the engine block. I had a coolant leak once - the fluid I was using corroded a hole in the bottom part of the cooler, thankfully not into the sump. Nissan wanted $1100 for a new one - said it couldn't be repaired (BS!). I bought one from a wrecker for $50! And found an alloy welder who said it would have been easy to redo!

I would suggest you case out some (more than one) auto transmission experts in a big town & see what they recommend.

Greg 1 · Guru

Firstly I own both BF turbo Falcon and a 2015 Ranger. The references to the BA Falcons bear no relation to your Ranger as the BA had it's trans cooler as part of the radiator not as a separate heat exchanger like the BF onwards and Rangers do. Some of the early Falcon heat exchangers were faulty and did cause issues but most last a long time. Modern auto transmissions like to run in a certain heat range and you can have them running too cool if adding additional cooling or conversely too hot if the exchanger is by passed and the air to oil cooler is not as effective. The best thing to do is check with the vehicle manufacturer whether they recommend the installation of a trans cooler when towing or not. My Ranger hauls a 3 tonne van around, has done so for most of it's life. It has completed 3 trips across the continent and back and is currently 2/3rds the way around of the big lap, all with the standard heat exchanger and no issues. Just have the trans serviced more often when towing.

swamp · Senior Member

hi
If towing more than a 6x4 a cooler should be compulsory . Its almost guaranteed over 100 deg cel will occur at close to max load . Although it helps to be verified by OBD .
Running a thermostat in the cooler is not needed in Australia . Unless u run in snow conditions all year round NOT in OZZY FORD !!
There are thermostat bybass kits that also will lower the running temp .

If u are towing a heavy load and have no cooler the trans will wear out that bit quicker . Whatever your smokin keep doin it !!

iana · Guru

I will be back, just hurt my neck (too much computering), and have been banned from the PC. Ian

Olive Oil · Senior Member

Bill B wrote:
Olive Oil wrote:

Easily fixed, buy a lighter caravan.

Real helpful DD

Nothing changed except your user name.

DD ??

Greg 1 · Guru

Let me put it this way. Ford designed the Ranger here even though it is built in Thailand. They did millions of test miles with test mules in this country. They fit as standard, a tow bar rated to the vehicles maximum tow capacity and the water to oil heat exchanger. There is no mention in the handbook that further cooling is needed for the trans and unless the manufacturer states that one is required or do a kit themselves you will risk your warranty if you fit one. Ford have a customer enquiry desk where you can get an answer to stuff like this. Ring head office and ask. Don't take my word for it or anyone else for that matter.

Plain Truth · Guru

Olive Oil wrote:
Bill B wrote:
Olive Oil wrote:

Easily fixed, buy a lighter caravan.

Real helpful DD

Nothing changed except your user name.
DD ??

Don't you remember him.

iana · Guru

Greg 1, good comment, Olive Oil, only too true, its the weight of the rig and our climate that's the trouble. Warren-pat, good to see someone thinking out side the square.

OK I think I have established that the plate heat exchanger that's fitted to the Ford Ranger, and the BT50 has had no problems of leaking, no one has come forward over two forums, and there is nothing on the net. But the Dodge Ram, and Ford F150, & 250 use them, plus many European cars including BMW. So that method of cooling the transmission must be very good, otherwise they wouldn't use them.

I am not for one moment suggesting that radiators that have transmission cooling lines through them haven't leaked, but using that statement to include these heat exchangers is just scaremongering.

I can't get my head around the idea of taking heat from the transmission, and expelling the heat in front of the inter-cooler, the air conditioning condenser and then the engine coolant radiator. This idea would have been used in vehicles about 1914.

Not one person has mentioned the effect high temperatures are having on other components, such as the engine and air conditioner.

Just driving around town I notice the temperatures stabilize at 91' for the motor and 97' for the transmission. This is ideal, also when towing, in the early morning or on cool days the temperatures are all good. The problems arise when the ambient temperatures rise, and especially when climbing up hills slowly behind a truck etc., or driving through city streets..

Therefore the problem is with the higher ambient temperatures coupled with towing a heavier load. Now with the higher temperatures, the turbocharged air will be hotter, not being cooled enough by the intercooler so engine power will be down slightly, the air conditioner will be on not only pumping hot air into the radiator, but also using engine power to drive it, the poor old engine is trying to get rid of its heat, as well as the heat from the transmission, not a good party.

I have been looking at the engine radiator, and wondering if the clutch is doing its job, or whether the idea of fitting electric fans would be an answer. Is the fan able to get the required airflow through it? is the fan big enough. I think the electric fans are out, too bigger job.

Alternatively, I could fit a separate cooler to the transmission, taking some of the load off the engine radiator, but fit the transmission cooler underneath the vehicle, getting the heat away from the rest of the coolers. There are quite a few persons doing this, more in the USA, found nothing in Aus yet.

The simplest alternative is of course is to set off early in the morning, and stop when the temps start rising and of course drive with the air con off. But you try telling the passenger in the left seat there's to be no air con, no chance.

And doing an oil change more frequently.

Olive Oil · Senior Member

Plain Truth wrote:
Olive Oil wrote:
Bill B wrote:
Olive Oil wrote:

Easily fixed, buy a lighter caravan.

Real helpful DD

Nothing changed except your user name.
DD ??
Don't you remember him.

He's busy on our other forums.

You appear to have a problem, can I help you with it in any way?.

Woman hater perhaps?

-- Edited by Olive Oil on Thursday 6th of June 2019 06:05:39 AM

Hewy54 · Senior Member

iana wrote:

I can't get my head around the idea of taking heat from the transmission, and expelling the heat in front of the inter-cooler, the air conditioning condenser and then the engine coolant radiator. This idea would have been used in vehicles about 1914.

Not one person has mentioned the effect high temperatures are having on other components, such as the engine and air conditioner.

My auto trans temps were also in the range you mentioned for "normal" use.
I noticed that under load (towing 1700 kg uphill on a warm day), the coolant temp went up to around 102 and the trans temp hit about 112.
On a hot day these went to 106 and 120.
Also on a hot day (38) trans temp was a constant 110 while towing on the flat.
The trans cooler I had fitted is a long thin one that sits below all other coolers on my BT50.
Coolant temps now run lower, never getting to 100, and trans temp has never hit 100.
The only thing I have noticed is that the trans temp runs higher than before if towing around the city on a hot day as there is limited air flow to cool it. Not a problem for me as I have only towed in the city once in the last 5 years.

swamp · Senior Member

HI
Hewy 54
What brand /model /construction type of cooler .???
Seems effective

serpentine tube and fin [old school] = inefficient
stacked plate == many factory coolers [can be run in side radiator or external ]
stacked plate and fin == high performance
Above typical rectangle or square

or the Chinese cylinder with 360 deg fins available in different lengths

NB many machines imported to Ozzy have radiator upgrades .

European cars also were very bad in our hot weather but not so much these days

Since the eighties aircons run high to very high pressures because condensors are to small

Do factories short change the customer as long as its satisfactory its ok . I did not say great !!!

-- Edited by swamp on Thursday 6th of June 2019 04:41:16 PM

iana · Guru

Hewy 54, your temps seem to be the same as ours, but we've not hit 120' yet!, we're towing 3 tonne, and our vehicle would be at max (or over), so 6 tonne all up. Not much reaction to my comments, expected to be howled down.

Swamp, I've been looking at the cylinder coolers, I like the fact they would not be so susceptible to damage, how ever my readings indicate the heat transfer is not as good. As per the above picture a stacked plate with an electric fan seems the go, especially for slow traveling and stop start in traffic. However to date I have found no reference to the water proofing of those motors, and am concerned about reliability when mounted between the chassis beams at the transmission.

Will be going soon to see a transmission service repair garage, and will talk to them. I am not all that trusting of the service report I received from the Mazda dealer, and will be asking to see samples of oil from the transmission and diff's.

blaze · Guru

Will be going soon to see a transmission service repair garage, and will talk to them. I am not all that trusting of the service report I received from the Mazda dealer, and will be asking to see samples of oil from the transmission and diff's.

Iy are getting samples you just as well take in proper sample bottles and have it analysed

cheers

blaze

iana · Guru

Question, has anyone on here fitted electric fans to their coolant radiators, it may well be that the fault lies in the effectiveness of the engine driven fan, and maybe the cure is to fit two electric fans in place of, with a properly constructed shroud of course.

Symo2540 · Veteran Member

Hi we have a BT50 2015 Model GT. Tow a Crusader caravan at around 2.5T. New gearbox at 50k under warranty, oil only slightly discoloured but lots of metal. Now have 100k on the vehicle. We have used a Scan Guage 2 from 10k, really good tool to monitor and observe Coolant and Auto Trans Fluid (ATF) temp. Lots of discussion suggest ATF should be changed at 50k or less if towing a lot.

On a recent trip to Adelaide on a 5 week trip with van we had the transmission serviced in Adelaide, oil was discoloured with metallic sludge on magnets. We had probably only done about 20k of towing.

Following discussions with the manager there we had the transmission thermostate removed and an external PWR cooler installed behind the grille and the original cooler removed off the gearbox.

Following the modifications the transmission runs about 30 Deg C cooler, not towing and 20 Deg C cooler when towing around the 70 Deg c mark, outside air in mid to hi 20s. Very happy with the modication.

Highly recommend if you own a Ranger or BT50.

Hope this helps.

swamp · Senior Member

HI
Iana
Use of cylinder type coolers are not covered by some transmission places . On my aftermarket performance transmission . I will ask them ,,as I have no room infront of the radiator either . Looking for a solution also .

Being familiar with eng/trans coolers the cylinder type very pretty but very inefficient . Need a lot more fins to surface area . The internal construction/ design needs to be known. Considering they are no name branding and china sourced I would also want to inspect for manufacturing debris /shavings .

Averaging towing on a hot day of 90-95cel on a hot 35 cel day would be ideal .
Any temp under 80 deg cel would be considered cold .

iana · Guru

Hi swamp, the cylinder coolers I have read about have not received very good reports. There is a chassis mounted plate type cooler available. I am heading more towards an electric fan assisted cooler, as the passive cooler would not be very efficient when say stopped at lights, slow traffic or steel climbs at slow speed.

One of my concerns is that we have not got a bull bar on the vehicle, mounting a cooler at the front would mean that in the event of hitting a roo, we would be "Dead in the water" no oil in the gear box. By installing the cooler towards the rear of the vehicle, under the ray, it would not be damaged.

The question I have is the ability of the auto transmission oil pump to pump a distance, and can the oil cooler be mounted above the transmission, i.e. head.

swamp · Senior Member

hi
Coolers yes ideally should mount as close to trans height as practical.

Cooler mounting
Vertical or near vertical eg more up down the better
Always have the access ports ,preferably at top or second preference side .
WHY
1/ to bleed the air out of the cooler [pressure will bleed air out eventually]
2/ so the cooler remains full of oil . Especially important on start up so nothing runs without oil lubrication

Types /brands of cooler

1/ most OEM are Eaton marketed as TRU Cool made by Long Industries . Commodore use these.

available in 3/4 and 1 1/2 inch thick stacked plate type . There are plate and fin types also.

2/ Serck

Big manufacturer of heat exchangers

European 50mm thick core

-- Edited by swamp on Monday 10th of June 2019 09:10:31 AM

Hewy54 · Senior Member

swamp wrote:
HI
Hewy 54
What brand /model /construction type of cooler .???
Seems effective

serpentine tube and fin [old school] = inefficient
stacked plate == many factory coolers [can be run in side radiator or external ]
stacked plate and fin == high performance
Above typical rectangle or square

or the Chinese cylinder with 360 deg fins available in different lengths

NB many machines imported to Ozzy have radiator upgrades .
European cars also were very bad in our hot weather but not so much these days
Since the eighties aircons run high to very high pressures because condensors are to small
Do factories short change the customer as long as its satisfactory its ok . I did not say great !!!

-- Edited by swamp on Thursday 6th of June 2019 04:41:16 PM

Sorry for taking so long to get back with info.

The cooler I had fitted is from the USA and is a Maxi Cooler.

It is only 152mm wide, but 585mm long so it sits below the other cooling "devices", and is protected as it sits behind the front body work.