re Diesel fuel stabilizers.

Dr Sable · Member

re Diesel fuel stabilizers.

erad · Guru

I have a NW model Pajero diesel (and I love it). The cost of replacing the injection components (injectors, pump, suction control valve etc) scares me witless. So I started looking around for preventative maintenance measures to avoid any problems.

Number 1 is filtration: Common Rail Diesels use very high pressures in the fuel systems. This means extremely fine tolerances in the fuel pump and injectors. Any dirt or grit in the fuel could quickly ruin these tolerances. All the research I could do said that the factory fitted fuel filter has a nominal filtration capacity of 10 microns. There are filter kits available which have a nominal capacity of 3 microns. I am sure that in their wisdom, the original designers of the system thought that 10 microns was sufficient, and they re probably right, but for a few hundred dollars, I would prefer to go even better.

Filtering down to this level sounds good but may come at the expense of extra losses in the fuel line, possibly causing problems further along eg the fuel pump. In my case, there is no booster or lift pump in the fuel system, but I went ahead and bought the 3 micron system anyway. I have had no troubles from the fuel system since fitting it.

Number 2 is location of the filter: My filter kit is now mounted after the OEM factory filter - between the OEM filter and the engine (fuel pump is on the engine). Initially, it was mounted before the OEM filter, as recommended by the filter manufacturer. I cannot see the logic in having a 3 micron filter and then a 10 micron filter after that, so at the last filter change, I swapped them around.

Number 3 is water in the fuel: This is the biggest killer of fuel systems. It can cause rust or can otherwise damage the components. The filter kit I bought has a water trap in the base of the filter. The OEM filter arrangement also has a water trap. I check these occasionally and as yet have found no water. However, it only takes one fill from a servo to cop a dose of water. The 3 micron filters are supposed to trap water as well as filter dirt etc, so this is extra protection (I am not sure about that statement, but if it helps, it is worthwhile). You also get condensation in the fuel tank from daily cycles in ambient temperature, so you can still get hit with some water in the fuel. You are more likely to get the water from the servo tanks though. Even filling with major brand names is not total insurance - they have contamination problems from time to time.

Number 4 is lubricity of the diesel fuel: Lubricity, or the ability of the fuel to lubricate the fuel pump and injectors, is important. If you believe all you read, the low sulphur fuel we get in Australia has less lubricity than elsewhere in the world. I am not convinced that this is a problem, but I do use additives which claim to improve lubricity. They also claim to grow hair on your head, improve sexual performance.... I use CEM (Cost Effective Maintenance) products. I use a fuel enhancer and a stabiliser product. I think they have some placebo additives in them, because I actually think that they work! The engine is quieter, smoother and I think it uses less fuel when I am not working the engine hard eg towing my caravan. I don't think it increases the overall power of the engine, but it seems to improve things at light throttle. These products are not cheap, but I am convinced enough to go back and buy some more when I run out.

Another bonus of using these products is that they claim to have algae stabilisers so that you don't get gunk build up in the fuel tank and then block the filters etc. My Pajero gets fired up about once every 2 weeks, and about once every 2 months gets a long run (over 250 km). Therefore there is a lot of time for the algae to build up if it is going to, so anything I can do to prevent this is a bonus.

The dose levels recommended are ridiculously low - typically 50 mL of additive per 80 litres of diesel. it doesn't seem right, but that is the recommendation of CEM and they would love to sell more if they could, so I assume it is right.

I have taken to dosing the petrol tank of my wife's car and I believe that the car has better pickup at low revs as a result. It must be the placebo additives that they use.....

Number 5 is 2 stroke oil added to the diesel: For a while, I was using 2 stroke oil added to the fuel tank. Again, the dose rate was very low - about 250 mL per 80 Litres of diesel. This made the engine quieter at idle for sure. The theory was that the 2 stroke oil compensated for the reduced lubricity of the low suphur fuel we get. I think a lot of people still use this. I used it for about 3 years and had no problems with the car. I don't think that 2 stroke oil will reduce algae buildup in the fuel tank.

So that is my lot. As I said above, I think there is a lot of placebo stuff added, but it only has to protect me once and it has paid for itself over and over again. The important thing to consider when using these additives is NOT to do damage to your system.

Knight · Senior Member

I have a second diesel fuel filter on my Isuzu MU-X and use Flashlube diesel reconditioned regularly, not necessarily every time I refuel.

And I agree with Erad's comment.

yobarr · Guru

Dr Sable wrote:
Hi one and all.
If possible, I would appreciate any information regarding *diesel fuel stabilizers* from those of you who have had real world experience with those chemicals. I would prefer the good, bad or the ugly stories rather than having to read endless company adds about how good their stuff is. How best to use them, how effective they are and any benefits or downsides. Any and all information would be gratefully accepted.

Hi Robert....I use Castro Activ 2 in the fuel,at 3ml per litre.I also have a primary fuel filter,5 microns,before the 3 microns factory filter. Any new filter should be before the factory filter,which should always be the last filter before the pump.Toyota are very definite about this.If your car has a factory filter with a big micron number,change that too.....Cheers

Dougwe · Chief one feather

I'm another FlashLube user. 1ml per lt. About every third fill. I notice a positive difference.

Keep Safe on the roads and out there.

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

I reckon diesel additives are just another way to get you to empty a bit more out of your wallet.
Diesel is highly lubricating, unlike petrol, and even petrol vehicles survive very well without spending extra money on additives.
Ask commercial truck operators if they spend extra on fuel additives. I reckon I know the answer.

One exception. When we leave the OKA in the shed unused for more than 3 months, I will make sure the tanks are full and add a biocide to the fuel to prevent the growth of algae.
Cheers,
Peter

yobarr · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
I reckon diesel additives are just another way to get you to empty a bit more out of your wallet.
Cheers,
Peter

Hi Peter....before I spent hours researching my injectors,I was of the same opinion as you are.However,not using an additive an additive with Denso injectors is absolutely playing with fire.The engine just sounds better,has better performance,and good fuel economy.Cheers

blaze · Guru

snake oil

cheers
blaze

yobarr · Guru

blaze wrote:
snake oil

cheers
blaze

Hi Robert....It would seem that you have had vast experience both with and without additives in your fuel? If not,surely you are not qualified to make the above comment? Cheers

Knight · Senior Member

During the 1990 recession, the worst for 60-years, the recession Labor claimed Australia had to have, and they were right because the economy overheated after they degregulated the banking and finance industry and floated the A$ around 1985, WA Inc, Bond, Skase and other investors taking advantage of low cost loans, I was looking for business operating cost savings and one chosen was to convert a large fleet of cars to dual fuel, LPG & ULP.

The first two conversions suffered cylinder head failure, valves burnt out, before 100,000 kilometres of driving. After head replacement FlashLube kits were recommended (lead replacement formula) with a drip feed system to mix with the fuels and keep the valves lubricated. These kits were installed into all new vehicles after that. Typically a company car was kept for 4 years or 160,000 kilometres on average Australia wide branches' vehicles. Not one valve problem was experienced over a period of ten years following. And after that time a decision was made to lease vehicles and dual fuel was no longer used.

I have had 3 petrol Pajero V6 and 1 diesel with Diesel/Gas injection, all fitted with FlashLube, the last had 230,000 kilometres travelled before changeover and no valve issues.

Now my Isuzu MU-X has travelled almost 70,000 kilometres in almost 2 years and I add FlashLube Diesel Reconditioner most times I fill the tank.

-- Edited by Knight on Tuesday 16th of July 2019 04:58:34 PM

yobarr · Guru

Knight wrote:
During the 1990 recession, the worst for 60-years, the recession Labor claimed Australia had to have, and they were right because the economy overheated after they degregulated the banking and finance industry and floated the A$ around 1985, WA Inc, Bond, Skase and other investors taking advantage of low cost loans, I was looking for business operating cost savings and one chosen was to convert a large fleet of cars to dual fuel, LPG & ULP.
The first two conversions suffered cylinder head failure, valves burnt out, before 100,000 kilometres of driving. After head replacement FlashLube kits were recommended (lead replacement formula) with a drip feed system to mix with the fuels and keep the valves lubricated. These kits were installed into all new vehicles after that. Typically a company car was kept for 4 years or 160,000 kilometres on average Australia wide branches' vehicles. Not one valve problem was experienced over a period of ten years following. And after that time a decision was made to lease vehicles and dual fuel was no longer used.
I have had 3 petrol Pajero V6 and 1 diesel with Diesel/Gas injection, all fitted with FlashLube, the last had 230,000 kilometres travelled before changeover and no valve issues.
Now my Isuzu MU-X has travelled almost 70,000 kilometres in almost 2 years and I add FlashLube Diesel Reconditioner most times I fill the tank.-- Edited by Knight on Tuesday 16th of July 2019 04:58:34 PM

Hi Dennis...interesting post which confirms what I have learned over the years.Cheers

blaze · Guru

yobarr wrote:
blaze wrote:
snake oil

cheers
blaze
Hi Robert....It would seem that you have had vast experience both with and without additives in your fuel? If not,surely you are not qualified to make the above comment? Cheers

qualified to speak on the matter

cheers

blaze

blaze · Guru

Knight wrote:
During the 1990 recession, the worst for 60-years, the recession Labor claimed Australia had to have, and they were right because the economy overheated after they degregulated the banking and finance industry and floated the A$ around 1985, WA Inc, Bond, Skase and other investors taking advantage of low cost loans, I was looking for business operating cost savings and one chosen was to convert a large fleet of cars to dual fuel, LPG & ULP.

The first two conversions suffered cylinder head failure, valves burnt out, before 100,000 kilometres of driving. After head replacement FlashLube kits were recommended (lead replacement formula) with a drip feed system to mix with the fuels and keep the valves lubricated. These kits were installed into all new vehicles after that. Typically a company car was kept for 4 years or 160,000 kilometres on average Australia wide branches' vehicles. Not one valve problem was experienced over a period of ten years following. And after that time a decision was made to lease vehicles and dual fuel was no longer used.

I have had 3 petrol Pajero V6 and 1 diesel with Diesel/Gas injection, all fitted with FlashLube, the last had 230,000 kilometres travelled before changeover and no valve issues.

Now my Isuzu MU-X has travelled almost 70,000 kilometres in almost 2 years and I add FlashLube Diesel Reconditioner most times I fill the tank.

-- Edited by Knight on Tuesday 16th of July 2019 04:58:34 PM

gas burns hotter and dryer than petrol and that's why the lube was added, ford fitted vavles suitable for their gas only vehicles. Industrial gas powered engines (forklifts ,interior sweepers, etc.) had no lubing systems added run very clean internals and no premature failures

cheers

blaze

DeBe · Guru

I run an XF 4.1 alloy head ford panel van that i fitted LPG. Its now done 220,000Ks with out any drip feed system. All early alloy head cross flow fords up to AU series 3 handled LPG fine with out any adons. But the series 3 AU if it came out of the factory petrol only, then there was going to be a problem on LPG with valve recession. The factory fitted LPG head had different valves fitted.

yobarr · Guru

Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 16th of July 2019 07:55:25 PM

Craig1 · Guru

Another Forum, Toyota, seems to claim/think that the " Majors, BP, Shell, Caltex " run additives in their versions of Premium Diesel to accomodate the low sulphur diesel we get. I must contact my preferred local supplier,Apco to see what they say.

Baz421 · Guru

blaze wrote:
Knight wrote:
During the 1990 recession, the worst for 60-years, the recession Labor claimed Australia had to have, and they were right because the economy overheated after they degregulated the banking and finance industry and floated the A$ around 1985, WA Inc, Bond, Skase and other investors taking advantage of low cost loans, I was looking for business operating cost savings and one chosen was to convert a large fleet of cars to dual fuel, LPG & ULP.

The first two conversions suffered cylinder head failure, valves burnt out, before 100,000 kilometres of driving. After head replacement FlashLube kits were recommended (lead replacement formula) with a drip feed system to mix with the fuels and keep the valves lubricated. These kits were installed into all new vehicles after that. Typically a company car was kept for 4 years or 160,000 kilometres on average Australia wide branches' vehicles. Not one valve problem was experienced over a period of ten years following. And after that time a decision was made to lease vehicles and dual fuel was no longer used.

I have had 3 petrol Pajero V6 and 1 diesel with Diesel/Gas injection, all fitted with FlashLube, the last had 230,000 kilometres travelled before changeover and no valve issues.

Now my Isuzu MU-X has travelled almost 70,000 kilometres in almost 2 years and I add FlashLube Diesel Reconditioner most times I fill the tank.

-- Edited by Knight on Tuesday 16th of July 2019 04:58:34 PM
gas burns hotter and dryer than petrol and that's why the lube was added, ford fitted vavles suitable for their gas only vehicles. Industrial gas powered engines (forklifts ,interior sweepers, etc.) had no lubing systems added run very clean internals and no premature failures
cheers
blaze

Yep Blaze ,, fact are facts eh

Jaahn · Guru

Knight wrote:
During the 1990 recession, the worst for 60-years, the recession Labor claimed Australia had to have, and they were right because the economy overheated after they degregulated the banking and finance industry and floated the A$ around 1985, WA Inc, Bond, Skase and other investors taking advantage of low cost loans, I was looking for business operating cost savings and one chosen was to convert a large fleet of cars to dual fuel, LPG & ULP.

The first two conversions suffered cylinder head failure, valves burnt out, before 100,000 kilometres of driving. After head replacement FlashLube kits were recommended (lead replacement formula) with a drip feed system to mix with the fuels and keep the valves lubricated. These kits were installed into all new vehicles after that. Typically a company car was kept for 4 years or 160,000 kilometres on average Australia wide branches' vehicles. Not one valve problem was experienced over a period of ten years following. And after that time a decision was made to lease vehicles and dual fuel was no longer used.
I have had 3 petrol Pajero V6 and 1 diesel with Diesel/Gas injection, all fitted with FlashLube, the last had 230,000 kilometres travelled before changeover and no valve issues.
Now my Isuzu MU-X has travelled almost 70,000 kilometres in almost 2 years and I add FlashLube Diesel Reconditioner most times I fill the tank.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi smile

This may be a great story but what the hell does it have to do with diesel fuel stabilisers which is what was asked by the OP. Diesel engines come with good valves that do not have any problems, that LPG engines had and indeed it was well known about around the world before LPG was offered widely here. Any factory conversions that had problems were just crap engineering. But it is not revelant to diesels and todays engines or fuel systems at all IMHO. disbelief

Jaahn

yobarr · Guru

Baz421 wrote:
blaze wrote:
gas burns hotter and dryer than petrol and that's why the lube was added, ford fitted vavles suitable for their gas only vehicles. Industrial gas powered engines (forklifts ,interior sweepers, etc.) had no lubing systems added run very clean internals and no premature failures.cheersblaze
Yep Blaze ,, fact are facts eh

All very interesting,but exactly what relevance does this have in a discussion about DIESEL fuel stabilizers? Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 16th of July 2019 08:45:45 PM

-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 16th of July 2019 08:50:43 PM

oldbloke · Guru

I believe some truck companies add used sump oil to the fuel. Not sure how much.

blaze · Guru

I got a box of hycloces for sale, anybody wanta buy some
cheers
blaze

blaze · Guru

yobarr wrote:
Baz421 wrote:
blaze wrote:
gas burns hotter and dryer than petrol and that's why the lube was added, ford fitted vavles suitable for their gas only vehicles. Industrial gas powered engines (forklifts ,interior sweepers, etc.) had no lubing systems added run very clean internals and no premature failures.cheersblaze
Yep Blaze ,, fact are facts eh
All very interesting,but exactly what relevance does this have in a discussion about DIESEL fuel stabilizers? Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 16th of July 2019 08:45:45 PM

-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 16th of July 2019 08:50:43 PM

SFA, just replying to another off topic part of the thread

cheers

blaze

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

oldbloke wrote:
I believe some truck companies add used sump oil to the fuel. Not sure how much.

Sump oil costs about ZERO, which is a lot cheaper than diesel. If it does no damage, that would be reason enough.

The relevant question is "Do commercial truck operators spend EXTRA cash on diesel fuel additives?"

Yes, or no?

Cheers,

Peter

Izabarack · Guru

During my research into the use and effectiveness of fuel stabilisers, I came across a research paper that concentrated on the effect of any additives on the lubricity of diesel. This was at the time that low sulphur was being introduced. Stabilisers, apparently, reduce lubricity. Bio diesel increases lubricity by the greatest margin of all the additives tested.

Bottom line, I use diesel fast enough so that I have no need for adding a stabiliser. Other bottom line is to use diesel sold in NSW as much as possible as a percentage of Bio in diesel is legislated.

Iza

pipes · Senior Member

G'day.
For what it's worth, Every time I fill my 1991 Mazda T 3500, I put one liter of mineral turps. 350000, and it is still running perfectly.
Pipes

Mariner30 · Senior Member

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
oldbloke wrote:
I believe some truck companies add used sump oil to the fuel. Not sure how much.
Sump oil costs about ZERO, which is a lot cheaper than diesel. If it does no damage, that would be reason enough.
The relevant question is "Do commercial truck operators spend EXTRA cash on diesel fuel additives?"
Yes, or no?
Cheers,
Peter

I drove diesel trucks for 30 yrs for a large company,

retired now

Never added anything to the fuel all that time apart from adblue the last few years,

Knew quite a lot contract commercial operators att, never heard them discussing using fuel stabilizers,

Have two older diesel powered boats, don't had anything to those,

There is a lot of diesel boats here that sit for weeks or even months between trips, haven't any discussions re stabilizers from those folk,

Jaahn · Guru

oldbloke wrote:
I believe some truck companies add used sump oil to the fuel. Not sure how much.

Hi smile

People have always put old sump oil in the tank of diesels costs nothing and gets rid of it. They sometime also put other oils and stuff like turps or alcohol and thinners etc because there was a black market for it, as I heard. The old diesels ran ok on it all probably. BUT when I was working as a diesel mechanic we did not use anything and if the companies that I did the work for threw that sort of sh*t in their tanks I would have left. hmm I maintained a high standard of normal maintaince and used quality products and never had a failure to proceed

I have pumped out diesels that were flooded in a storm down the exhaust, pushed into a dam by vandals and normal working out in the pouring rain for hours. Never felt the need for additives just good clean oil and filters and good fuel handling practice. In those days all diesels had dual fuel filters and water drains. aww

Jaahn

-- Edited by Jaahn on Wednesday 17th of July 2019 10:12:02 AM

deverall11 · Guru

Does anybody here subscribe to the theory that as fuel filter gets dirty, the holes get smaller and by
default will filter more. For example, say you buy a new filter with a rating of 10 microns, as it gets
dirty that might come down to 5 microns.
Not something i would do with an air filter but seems to make sense with a fuel filter. Although this
could make sense with an air filter as well.
The assumption here is that a dirty fuel filter will not restrict fuel flow to the extent that it will
affect performance adversely. I suppose it is the same as installing a 5 micron filter when a 10
micron is recommended.
Interested in constructive and educated comments. Knockers need not apply.
Thank you,
Larry

Jaahn · Guru

Hi Larry smile

I guess we all believe that a 5 micron filter has all the 'holes' pretty exactly 5 micron in size. Well that may not be so, indeed unlikely even. The average size will be about that but some bigger and some smaller. The quality of the manufacturing process will have a great bearing on it. The filter medium is made so the 'weave' will produce the average size. I have no idea how ! hmm

With hydraulic filters and most truck air filters there is a pressure drop measuring device that indicates the gradual resistance increase as the filter gets clogged, to give the operator some indication of the condition.

So how that affects your theory I am not sure. But I suspect the big holes stay open longer and the small ones block first disbelief But my experience is that filters work OK until you get some bad fuel then block. But usually a combination of water and the crap that comes with it. So I carry a spare filter with me. If I have it I will not need it seems to work OK.

Jaahn

-- Edited by Jaahn on Wednesday 17th of July 2019 12:08:26 PM

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

DeBe wrote:
I run an XF 4.1 alloy head ford panel van that i fitted LPG. Its now done 220,000Ks with out any drip feed system. All early alloy head cross flow fords up to AU series 3 handled LPG fine with out any adons. But the series 3 AU if it came out of the factory petrol only, then there was going to be a problem on LPG with valve recession. The factory fitted LPG head had different valves fitted.

Alloy heads had tough valve seat inserts being alloy heads !! Even if engine was a leaded model ! Why they used them on taxis , LPG ..

-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Wednesday 17th of July 2019 01:58:56 PM