No, my mechanic puts in injector cleaner during certain services and that is all.

Onto my 3rd 3.2DID Pajero now, with previous 2 doing over 250k each without problems.

-- Edited by Rod Mac on Friday 2nd of August 2019 04:30:55 PM

Cupie wrote:

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Hi ..Picked this up on a Patrol Forum.For me, it is of interest only as I have a petrol engine.It was suggested earlier on the thread, that in the older engines (non CRD) where petrol had inadvertently been put into the tank, after draining etc, a dose of 2 stroke was a good precaution.

 Do any of you 'oiler' drivers use 2 stroke as an additive? .......................................................................................................

"Due to the pollution control measures of the EC diesel-oil is nearly sulphur free and contains up to 5% of bio-diesel. Sulphur has the property to grease the high pressure injection pump and the injectors. Without sulphur, the reduced greasing property of the new diesel has already shown negative impacts on the long-term stability of the injectors and the high pressure pump.The pump manufacturers have tried to react by lining the moving parts of the pumps with Teflon or other suitable material. However, the long term stability is still not achieved as with the old (sulphur contained) diesel.The engine-research centre of a well known German car manufacturer has conducted some long term tests of diesel additives to find out whether any one of them will have an impact on the long term reliability of the diesel engine components. This introduction to explain were my information comes from.The results of this research:   ....

Any diesel additive of any manufacturer presently on the market is not worth the money!                                 BUT: 2-stroke oil, which we use in our motor saws, lawn mower or in 2-stroke motor engines has shown to have an extreme positive impact on diesel engines, if such 2-stroke oil is added to the diesel in a homeopathic doses of 1:200. In practical terms: 0,300 litre of 2-stroke oil into the 70L diesel tank. The 2-stroke oil will be absorbed by the diesel (emulsion) and grease every moving part of the high pressure pump and the injectors.                   Besides this, the 2-stroke oil will keep the diesel engine clean, as it burns cleaner as the diesel itself.                    In other words, the 2-stroke oil has a much lower ash-content as diesel, when burned. This proven fact delays the DPF (diesel particulate (soot) filter) to clog, and the "burn free" process of the DPF will be much less.

One more piece of information:In Germany we have to present our cars every 2 years to the TUV -Technical Supervision Organisation - who will check, amongst other things, the pollution of petrol and diesel engines.The measured cloud-factor of a diesel engine without use of 2-stroke oil has been 0,95.The same factor with the use of 2-stroke oil has been 0,47 - reduction of nearly half of the soot particles.Besides this, the use of 2-stroke oil in the diesel will increase the mileage by 3-5%.

and more :-You may all know that Mercedes Benz have conducted in 2007 a long distance reliability test with a number of Mercedes E-Class 320 cdi from Paris to Beijing.Due to the fact that the diesel quality in East European Countries, Russia and China does not meet the DIN requirements, and Mercedes did not want to take the risk of their engines to flop due to lousy fuel, the total tour has been accompanied by diesel tanks to re-fuel the E-Class cdi's.Selected members of the Mercedes clientele could apply to participate in selected parts of this test-tour, and advocates and notaries had to certify the correctness of this long term reliability test.Although Mercedes does not like it published or made public, it is a fact that the diesel-fuel used for this test did contain 2-stroke oil to grease the high pressure pump components and to keep the engines clean during this marathon.                               Why our car manufacturers do not officially allow the homeopathic addition of 2-stroke oil to the diesel fuel has many reasons, mostly of legal nature. Besides this, which car manufacturer has any interest in excessive reliability of their engines? Their repair shops will have great problems.

Meanwhile the "2-stroke-oil to diesel" issue has attracted the interest of a number of Universities in Germany, as this 2-stroke oil has shown to have amazing properties if added in a small does to diesel fuel (1:200), especially the positive impact on air pollution, reduced fuel consumption and improved long term reliability of the diesel engine. The pro and con discussions will go on for a while. But as soon as an academic report has been published by one of our Universities, this will change very fast. By the way:

All car manufacturers reject the addition of any fuel "additive" in their cars, and warn that guarantee MAY be affected. Nobody says, that guarantee WILL be rejected. 2-stroke oil in its properties is not an additive, as you add oil to oil if you "dope" you fuel with a doses of 2-stroke oil. The doses of 2-stroke oil in your diesel-fuel is very difficult to analyse, as every (chemical) analysis has the main function to identify substances which are harmful. But 2-stroke oil has proven not to be harmful at all, on the contrary!

Personally, I use 2-stroke oil now for many years in all of my diesel cars (my present business car is a Mercedes 320 cdi DPF Automatic). And I never had any problems whatsoever. "

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 I religiously use Activ2 Castrol 2 stroke motorcycle oil in my diesel,at 3mm/litre of diesel.Quieter at startup,more power and better economy......This oil is particularly effective in cars fitted with Denso injectors.Cheers

While I can understand the argument about the 2-stroke lubricating the fuel pump and injectors (although I've read it's more complex than this, and is only a benefit for certain types and makes of diesel fuel systems and not others), I'm highly dubious about the second half of the claim that it actually burns cleaner than pure diesel.

How many of us can remember going to Asian cities when all the motorbikes were powered by 2-stroke engines, and the clouds of smoke they produced! And I still remember having 2-stroke boat engines, and there's nothing anyone can say to convince me they burnt cleaner than today's 4-stroke ones!

But those two examples are petrol engines, so maybe diesel is different - right? Well, consider this. A small amount of oil does find its way into the combustion chambers of modern diesels already - it comes past the piston rings from the sump. My understanding is that this is seen as a bad thing by auto manufacturers because it raises the emissions they are trying so hard to reduce, and it can clog the DPF filters because it causes MORE ash, not less. That's why engines with DPF fitted specify a low SAPS oil, to reduce the effects of the DPF being clogged from the residue of burning even small amounts of lubricant oil.

As for the third claim that it increases fuel efficiency by 3-5%, now I think it's just going into the realms of the snake oil salesman, but I'm going to give the usual disclaimer that I'm not an expert on these things, just thinking aloud!

-- Edited by Mamil on Saturday 3rd of August 2019 02:58:46 PM

I have to agree with you Mamil. It's like back many years ago when I was a test driver in the automotive industry, we often had people making claims that they had bolted some other carburetor to a car and were getting large gains in fuel economy. Never mind that the manufacturer had spent large sums flow metering and testing various carbies to arrive at the best one and settings for that particular engine. If it were so easy that you could pull one off the shelf and get immediate improvements every manufacturer would be doing it. We put a few of these claims to physical test and not one of those we tested lived up to the claims and in fact were worse than the original specs. Hence I treat most of these claims with great scepticism.

Aus-Kiwi wrote:

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 Modern injected 2 stroke outboards are totally different . EPA keeps them in order .

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 They certainly did - they banned their sale because of the pollution they cause and putting oil into a diesel is probably illegal for the same reason.

Cheers,

Peter

Eaglemax wrote:

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One of my Air Force Sargeants told me when I was only 18yo after spotting a bottle of upper cylinder head libricant in my engine bay "if the engineers that designed the engine thought it should be there they'd have designed it there as standard" Tony

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 Unfortunately engineering is underpinned by accountants and their veiw of economics.

My experience is that older diesels benefit from adding the oil, my 35 year old Volvo smokes less on startup, runs smoother, quieter and is perhaps a little more pokey. Perhaps.

Not sure if it assists the diesel heater much as I suffered a string of issues after adding to the main tank. Probably coincidence, just sayin'.

Modern high pressure diesels get no benefit at all.

A good mate of mine was a Caterpillar field service engineer and spent his whole working life with CAT. His advice to me when I got my first diesel was to always have clean oil, clean fuel and change the oil and filters regularly. His advice regarding additives was long and colourful and boiled down to DON'T.

More advice from him was, when working on cars was to always throw away used fasteners and replace them with new ones and to always use a good accurate torque wrench. It seems to work as my old Series III diesel lasted over a million km's and my current Td5 has over 400k km's on it. Neither car has suffered any failures apart from normal wear and tear (clutches, alternators, etc)

-- Edited by markf on Monday 5th of August 2019 01:59:45 PM

Diesel fuel has changed. Original additives have been phased out or reduced.

https://www.environment.gov.au/protection/fuel-quality/standards/diesel

l have a 1990 1HZ diesel motor now with 400 000 k's. Have been putting 330ml ( old engine oil flush bottles with long neck) mineral based 2 stroke oil per tank (penrite green keeper oil) for over 5 years. No pump issues, runs fantastic, cold starting with in 1 crank, no injector issues. Never had a problem. Mate has an 80 series 1HZ was sceptical and has seen me use it all this time, finally convinced him to use some, with in a week noticed better idle, economy, and starting etc.. What convinced me, l had an old (20 year)Victor lawnmower (as we all did), decided it probably need new rings etc. Once l opened it up, no sludge or carbon build up, so basically after 20 years clean as a whistle!!! And lets face it we were not always kind to our mowers. So the 2 stroke oil keeps things lubricated and clean.

I did it way back . Its $1200 or so for a rebuilt pump . Over the years $40 to $60 a tin of two stroke would soon pay for that ! I used it as temp measure to uncarbon the engine . It softens the carbon in chambers, ( not adding to it !)  the water injection did the rest . Can tell by how clean the glow plugs are . Starts much easier . Plus these engines suffer stuck or sticking valves . More often use has made a big difference. Short trips with diesels is bad news !!

-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Sunday 11th of August 2019 01:06:47 PM