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Post Info TOPIC: WDHs verses Upgrades


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RE: WDHs verses Upgrades
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For Yobarr,

"Reece state "..."ball weight remains the same"
That statement is correct. And when the van is connected imost of it is transferred to the rear axle of the tow vehicle.

But some people forget, once the WDH is connected that TBW is gain transferred mostly to the 2 front axles restoring braking and steering.

In that graphic the TBW is shown as 0kg because that weight is no longer transferred to the scale/ground through the jockey wheel. Simples really.

The graphic isn't indicating that there is 0kg TBW. Just no longer on the jockey wheel.

The graphic is 100% correct.



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montie wrote:
oldbloke wrote:
Gundog wrote:

 

Oh and towball weight is a nonsence as soon as the two units are connected together, because its unmeasurable.


 I agree.


 I agree that In the context of this discussion ball weight is irrelevant because it cannot be measured however it can never be zero......a zero ball weight would render the van untowable.


 Monty, the graphic indicates the TBW has been moved. Not eliminated.



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oldbloke wrote:

For Yobarr,

"Reece state "..."ball weight remains the same"
That statement is correct. And when the van is connected imost of it is transferred to the rear axle of the tow vehicle.

But some people forget, once the WDH is connected that TBW is gain transferred mostly to the 2 front axles restoring braking and steering.

In that graphic the TBW is shown as 0kg because that weight is no longer transferred to the scale/ground through the jockey wheel. Simples really.

The graphic isn't indicating that there is 0kg TBW. Just no longer on the jockey wheel.

The graphic is 100% correct.


 May I suggest you give up? You are so far lost in the WDH wilderness it is not even funny anymore.You write "...TBW is gain transferred mostly to the 2 front axles..." How many cars have you seen that have 2 front axles? Towball weight NEVER changes with the use of a WDH. Again,I will post details DIRECT from the Hayman Reece website,for your benefit.If you still do not understand,may I respectfully suggest you contact Hayman Reece, and point out their apparent misunderstandings? Cheers

 

E62A6DBE-57CD-453E-B906-9B4A4946785F.png09E3041E-37CF-42FD-BBC3-CD8865C924CD.png



-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 21st of April 2021 08:38:22 PM

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oldbloke wrote:
montie wrote:
oldbloke wrote:
Gundog wrote:

 

Oh and towball weight is a nonsence as soon as the two units are connected together, because its unmeasurable.


 I agree.


 I agree that In the context of this discussion ball weight is irrelevant because it cannot be measured however it can never be zero......a zero ball weight would render the van untowable.


 Monty, the graphic indicates the TBW has been moved. Not eliminated.


 The towball weight NEVER moves...it is NEVER changed by a WDH.Cheers



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Yobarr,

The graphic is correct. Think about it. All of them add up the same across the cells.


WDH Example totals.JPG

 

The TBW has been MOVED. Mate, now try to tell me the numbers don't add up. If you can't see that then you need glasses or learn to add up. Or just admit you made a mistake, But I sure ain't holding my breath for that one.

 

BTW I suggest you use a step ladder when you climb down off you horse. I wouldn't like to see you break your neck when you fall.  

 

Instead of telling me

"May I suggest you give up? You are so far lost in the WDH wilderness it is not even funny anymore"

 Show me where the math is wrong. 

 

Red BS.JPG

 

Yobarr, the red edit you made above is the "rubbish" The graphic does NOT indicate zero TBW. It indicates the TBW is no longer on the scale/ground through the jockey wheel. If you read it the weight has been MOVED.  Therefore, yes, the TBW has stayed the same, but now moved elsewhere. If you continue to deny the above my only conclusion can be that YOU are "lost in space".

 

HR WDH display - Copy.jpg

 

When you feel a little better in the morning I will accept you apology.



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yobarr wrote:
oldbloke wrote:
montie wrote:
oldbloke wrote:
Gundog wrote:

 

Oh and towball weight is a nonsence as soon as the two units are connected together, because its unmeasurable.


 I agree.


 I agree that In the context of this discussion ball weight is irrelevant because it cannot be measured however it can never be zero......a zero ball weight would render the van untowable.


 Monty, the graphic indicates the TBW has been moved. Not eliminated.


 The towball weight NEVER moves...it is NEVER changed by a WDH.Cheers


 Yobarr,

Once again you seem to avoid answering anyones questions.

I asked that you might supply facts to support your previous statements from a weighbridge example but you post immediately above really takes the cake and says it all.

A weighbridge example from you would only be fair considering your claims of the two examples from reputable companies is not true.

Your quote..from immediately above..

 The towball weight NEVER moves...it is NEVER changed by a WDH.Cheers 

From this little gem I don't think any of us really need any explanation as to the rest of your theories on a WDH system.

I hope you got your hole dug today Chris. biggrin  biggrin

 

 

 



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oldbloke wrote:

Yobarr,

The graphic is correct. Think about it. All of them add up the same across the cells.


WDH Example totals.JPG

 

The TBW has been MOVED. Mate, now try to tell me the numbers don't add up. If you can't see that then you need glasses or learn to add up. Or just admit you made a mistake, But I sure ain't holding my breath for that one.

 

BTW I suggest you use a step ladder when you climb down off you horse. I wouldn't like to see you break your neck when you fall.  

 

Instead of telling me

"May I suggest you give up? You are so far lost in the WDH wilderness it is not even funny anymore"

 Show me where the math is wrong. 

 

Red BS.JPG

 

Yobarr, the red edit you made above is the "rubbish" The graphic does NOT indicate zero TBW. It indicates the TBW is no longer on the scale/ground through the jockey wheel. If you read it the weight has been MOVED.  Therefore, yes, the TBW has stayed the same, but now moved elsewhere. If you continue to deny the above my only conclusion can be that YOU are "lost in space".

 

HR WDH display - Copy.jpg

 

When you feel a little better in the morning I will accept you apology.


Surely you are not serious? You say the towball weight has been "MOVED".Where do you think this weight has been moved to? The towball weight NEVER moves,and NEVER changes with the use of a WDH.How on earth can it move? It is a downward force imposed on the towbar of the car,and is constant,WDH or no WDH.Back to simple physics class for you,might I suggest? Cheers



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yobarr wrote:
oldbloke wrote:

For Yobarr,

"Reece state "..."ball weight remains the same"
That statement is correct. And when the van is connected imost of it is transferred to the rear axle of the tow vehicle.

But some people forget, once the WDH is connected that TBW is gain transferred mostly to the 2 front axles restoring braking and steering.

In that graphic the TBW is shown as 0kg because that weight is no longer transferred to the scale/ground through the jockey wheel. Simples really.

The graphic isn't indicating that there is 0kg TBW. Just no longer on the jockey wheel.

The graphic is 100% correct.


 May I suggest you give up? You are so far lost in the WDH wilderness it is not even funny anymore.You write "...TBW is gain transferred mostly to the 2 front axles..." How many cars have you seen that have 2 front axles? Towball weight NEVER changes with the use of a WDH. Again,I will post details DIRECT from the Hayman Reece website,for your benefit.If you still do not understand,may I respectfully suggest you contact Hayman Reece, and point out their apparent misunderstandings? Cheers

 

-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 21st of April 2021 08:17:31 PM


 

Well, actually Yobarr the vast majority of cars have two stub axles. NOT a simple single axle like a trailer or caravan. BTW, if they only have 1 stub axle it would be very unstable, at a guess un-safe.

 

A 4x4 has 2 front axles plus a drive shaft for each. Is that correct mate? Sorry for the confusion. biggrin



-- Edited by oldbloke on Wednesday 21st of April 2021 08:28:54 PM

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Clarky 1 wrote:
yobarr wrote:
oldbloke wrote:
montie wrote:
oldbloke wrote:
Gundog wrote:

 

Oh and towball weight is a nonsence as soon as the two units are connected together, because its unmeasurable.


 I agree.


 I agree that In the context of this discussion ball weight is irrelevant because it cannot be measured however it can never be zero......a zero ball weight would render the van untowable.


 Monty, the graphic indicates the TBW has been moved. Not eliminated.


 The towball weight NEVER moves...it is NEVER changed by a WDH.Cheers


 Yobarr,

Once again you seem to avoid answering anyones questions.

I asked that you might supply facts to support your previous statements from a weighbridge example but you post immediately above really takes the cake and says it all.

A weighbridge example from you would only be fair considering your claims of the two examples from reputable companies is not true.

Your quote..from immediately above..

 The towball weight NEVER moves...it is NEVER changed by a WDH.Cheers 

From this little gem I don't think any of us really need any explanation as to the rest of your theories on a WDH system.

I hope you got your hole dug today Chris. biggrin  biggrin


 What on earth are you on about? If you wish to ask any questions,in a clear manner,outlining exactly what you wish to learn,I am more than happy to supply answers.However,as stated earlier,it is becoming tiresome writing the same indesputable facts on a regular basis,when all required information can be found in previous threads,using the "search" facility at the top of the page.Good luck with your research,but please note that always I am happy to answer questions,and help those who want to be helped.Cheers

P.S "The towball weight NEVER moves...it is NEVER changed by a WDH" is an indesputable fact,so I wonder why you have highlighted it?



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Yobarr,

Didn't you see my most recent post above?

Apart from old bloke...there are many of us that are serious and wanting your explanation.

Why don't you just do your own WEIGHBRIDGE EXERCISE. and prove the examples from reputable companies incorrect by providing us all with a display of your independent results.

Some of us are waiting so come on Chris show us how you may convince us all. We are really all serious.

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Clarky 1 wrote:

Yobarr,

Didn't you see my most recent post above?

Apart from old bloke...there are many of us that are serious and wanting your explanation.

Why don't you just do your own WEIGHBRIDGE EXERCISE. and prove the examples from reputable companies incorrect by providing us all with a display of your independent results.

Some of us are waiting so come on Chris show us how you may convince us all. We are really all serious.


 Details of weighbridge exercise below.Hayman Reece CLEARLY state on their website that WDH does NOT change towball weight.To help you overcome your apparent reluctance to accept that which is undisputable,could I respectfully suggest that you access videos by John Cadogan,where everything I have said is shown to be true? There is absolutely NO need for me prove examples from reputable companies to be incorrect,because they are not.The problem is that some people simply do not understand the figures,and draw totally illogical conclusions from their observations. For the hundredth time,I will advise that a WDH does NOT change towball weight,never has,and never will.Hope this helps.Cheers

 

ED133302-8986-43B3-80CE-4C2E4E4927BE.pngA07A8D44-7D15-49E5-A642-139E0866FE74.jpeg



-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 21st of April 2021 09:35:19 PM

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Chis, Yobarr will never admit he is WRONG.

I note he is yet to show where the math in the graphic from Hayman Reece is wrong? Yabarr?

In addition he has ignored my previous post entirely. That's because he is "lost in space".

In addition he would have to admit he has got it wrong after MANY times telling the whole world over the internet that the graphic indicates there is NO TBW, when it actually indicates that it has simply been moved.

You see, he also paid a heap of $ out to get his rig up-graded. Now it looks like he wasted his $ because his steering and front braking is still compromised. In addition he is likely adding even more weight to the Toyota ute taking even more weight off the front axles increasing the risk of an accident. Yet he keeps raving on about safety and how safe his rig is.

 

Should have just purchased a WDH. Safer IMO.

Simples really.


See-Saw.jpg


And heavy springs, air bags or different shockers will never change this basic law of physics indicated above. Known in the science world as a "simple machine".

biggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrin



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Spot on oldbloke..he hasn't changed over time..

Clarky 1 wrote:

Yobarr,

Didn't you see my most recent post above?

Apart from old bloke...there are many of us that are serious and wanting your explanation.

Why don't you just do your own WEIGHBRIDGE EXERCISE. and prove the examples from reputable companies incorrect by providing us all with a display of your independent results.

Some of us are waiting so come on Chris show us how you may convince us all. We are really all serious.


 Yobarr,

You said this in a previous post within this topic.

The towball weight NEVER moves...it is NEVER changed by a WDH...

So bring on an explanation supporting you claim please.

The weighbridge figurees as previously quoted appear to render your above statement incorrect. These figures are from reputable companies.

Are they incorrect? 

 



-- Edited by Clarky 1 on Wednesday 21st of April 2021 09:30:43 PM

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oldbloke wrote:

Chis, Yobarr will never admit he is WRONG.

I note he is yet to show where the math in the graphic from Hayman Reece is wrong? Yabarr?

In addition he has ignored my previous post entirely. That's because he is "lost in space".

In addition he would have to admit he has got it wrong after MANY times telling the whole world over the internet that the graphic indicates there is NO TBW, when it actually indicates that it has simply been moved.

You see, he also paid a heap of $ out to get his rig up-graded. Now it looks like he wasted his $ because his steering and front braking is still compromised. In addition he is likely adding even more weight to the Toyota ute taking even more weight off the front axles increasing the risk of an accident. Yet he keeps raving on about safety and how safe his rig is.

 

Should have just purchased a WDH. Safer IMO.

Simples really.


See-Saw.jpg


And heavy springs, air bags or different shockers will never change this basic law of physics indicated above. Known in the science world as a "simple machine".

biggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrin


 As I have said many times,a WDH is primarily used by those who are trying to make a car do things for which it was not designed.And to give you peace of mind,I will say that my car runs 1350kg on the steer,2300kg on the rear axle,and my van has GTM of 3150kg for all up LEGAL on all axles of 6800kg.And super-safe,with the car around 15% heavier than the van.That's with 180 litres fuel and 600 litre of water.Oh,and it's a Toyota.Cheers



-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 21st of April 2021 09:38:41 PM

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Ahaha Yobarr!

We have noticed that you still have not replied to the enquiry above

You said,

The towball weight NEVER moves...it is NEVER changed by a WDH...

That is a big call considering all the facts already shown by demonstration on a weighbridge and by a printed fact sheet from the biggest WDH supplier in Australia.
In case you forgot it was me who contacted HR after comments directed at me in a previous topic and it was HR who directed me to their weighbridge spreadsheet record as has been repeated and pasted in this topic.

So whats the go mate?.



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Clarky 1 wrote:

Ahaha Yobarr!

We have noticed that you still have not replied to the enquiry above

You said,

The towball weight NEVER moves...it is NEVER changed by a WDH...

That is a big call considering all the facts already shown by demonstration on a weighbridge and by a printed fact sheet from the biggest WDH supplier in Australia.
In case you forgot it was me who contacted HR after comments directed at me in a previous topic and it was HR who directed me to their weighbridge spreadsheet record as has been repeated and pasted in this topic.

So whats the go mate?.


 Are you serious? I have posted so much stuff from Hayman Reece tgat shows that WDH does NOT change towball weight,that it is becoming monotonous.Again,I will post these two screen shots,but may I suggest that you Google John Cadogan,and view his videos explaining the workings of a WDH.All will then become clear to you...maybe.Cheers

8694492F-A2FF-4B01-87B7-8CCF27EBB0F3.jpegACD6A85B-F8D8-4481-B21D-19EE807C13F6.jpeg



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Good nite Yobarr,

Sweet dreams mate...

Maybe in the light of day tomorrow you might be able to offer a description as to where the weight in the weighbridge exercise came from when the front axle and the van axle group weights increased once the WDH was connected to the vehicle and trailer.

Leave it with ya..



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Clarky 1 wrote:

Good nite Yobarr,

Sweet dreams mate...

Maybe in the light of day tomorrow you might be able to offer a description as to where the weight in the weighbridge exercise came from when the front axle and the van axle group weights increased once the WDH was connected to the vehicle and trailer.

Leave it with ya..


 Clarky1, He is just mindlessly repeating the same BS. He is just copy pasting off other web sites without understanding. Or as I said earlier that he has wasted a lot of $ for zilch gain.

 

Yobarr, you can apologise to us in the morning, mate. When you learn to add up.



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Or perhaps he is a troll.

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Maybe consider this: When you hook up the van the tow ball goes down proportional to the weight applied. This has unloaded the front axle of the tug. Now pump up your airbags, the rear rises and the front goes down. The rear axle is not a fixed simple pivot point as the load is through the suspension. The load applied does not change but where it goes to does.
I know this has been stated before, just trying to use a different example.

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BarneyBDB wrote:

Maybe consider this: When you hook up the van the tow ball goes down proportional to the weight applied. This has unloaded the front axle of the tug. Now pump up your airbags, the rear rises and the front goes down. The rear axle is not a fixed simple pivot point as the load is through the suspension. The load applied does not change but where it goes to does.
I know this has been stated before, just trying to use a different example.


 Perhaps someone else can demonstrate. But my understanding is that air bags don't transfer any weight back to the front axle(s).  They only level the vehicle. 

 

Perhaps a small percentage but nothing like a WDH.



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yobarr wrote:
oldbloke wrote:

For Yobarr,

"Reece state "..."ball weight remains the same"
That statement is correct. And when the van is connected imost of it is transferred to the rear axle of the tow vehicle.

But some people forget, once the WDH is connected that TBW is gain transferred mostly to the 2 front axles restoring braking and steering.

In that graphic the TBW is shown as 0kg because that weight is no longer transferred to the scale/ground through the jockey wheel. Simples really.

The graphic isn't indicating that there is 0kg TBW. Just no longer on the jockey wheel.

The graphic is 100% correct.


 May I suggest you give up? You are so far lost in the WDH wilderness it is not even funny anymore.You write "...TBW is gain transferred mostly to the 2 front axles..." How many cars have you seen that have 2 front axles? Towball weight NEVER changes with the use of a WDH. Again,I will post details DIRECT from the Hayman Reece website,for your benefit.If you still do not understand,may I respectfully suggest you contact Hayman Reece, and point out their apparent misunderstandings? Cheers

 

E62A6DBE-57CD-453E-B906-9B4A4946785F.png09E3041E-37CF-42FD-BBC3-CD8865C924CD.png



-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 21st of April 2021 08:38:22 PM


 Interesting. In one post you agree that the TBW is distributed.  Then another that it doesn't move. Your contradicting yourself now yobbo.  Desperate eh.



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yobarr wrote:
oldbloke wrote:

So I'm a little puzzled. Some people have their tow vehicles tow rating up graded and because its now level do not use a WDH. 

 
As has been discussed many times the WDH distributes some TBW load off the rear axle onto the front wheels and the van axles.
 
Am I wrong or does the rating increase primarily done by simply installing more/stiffer leaf springs? Perhaps also beef up the chassis?
 
If this is the case, wouldn't the rear axle still act as a fulcrum thereby taking most of the weight and also reducing the weight/load on the front wheels (perhaps not as bad) resulting in poorer braking and steering?  Sure, head lights would remain aligned. I get the feeling its not much different to using air bags?  Think see-saw.
 
Ummm, let's keep this civil. :)

 Hi Neil...later today I will try to answer your questions,but it must be noted that a WDH does NOT change towball weight,EVER.It simply DISTRIBUTES weight from the car's rear axle to both the car's front axle,and the van's axle group.Airbags do NOT transfer any weight,and do little more than make the car look pretty,and perhaps ride better? Cheers


 



-- Edited by oldbloke on Thursday 22nd of April 2021 05:47:00 AM

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It is becoming increasingly obvious that this thread is not about towball weight but more about baiting a certain member.

A few posters have now resorted to name calling and personal attacks.

Time for admin to shut it down me thinks.



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Clarky 1 wrote:
yobarr wrote:

 The towball weight NEVER moves...it is NEVER changed by a WDH.Cheers


 Yobarr,

Once again you seem to avoid answering anyones questions.

I asked that you might supply facts to support your previous statements from a weighbridge example but you post immediately above really takes the cake and says it all.

A weighbridge example from you would only be fair considering your claims of the two examples from reputable companies is not true.

Your quote..from immediately above..

 The towball weight NEVER moves...it is NEVER changed by a WDH.Cheers 

From this little gem I don't think any of us really need any explanation as to the rest of your theories on a WDH system.

I hope you got your hole dug today Chris. biggrinbiggrin

 


 Hi Stu

It is obvious that he got the hole dug for himself with that statement above.

biggrin biggrin biggrin

Regards

Rob



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montie wrote:

It is becoming increasingly obvious that this thread is not about towball weight but more about baiting a certain member.

A few posters have now resorted to name calling and personal attacks.

Time for admin to shut it down me thinks.


 Thanks Montie,for this post.Already I had decided to opt out,as it was becoming obvious to me that I was being baited.Physics and logic may well confuse some people,but a stubborn refusal to accept facts is pathetic.Cheers

 

6BDAE47C-F5AC-49E9-B771-83BC793A6A15.png



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yobarr wrote:
montie wrote:

It is becoming increasingly obvious that this thread is not about towball weight but more about baiting a certain member.

A few posters have now resorted to name calling and personal attacks.

Time for admin to shut it down me thinks.


 Thanks Montie,for this post.Already I had decided to opt out,as it was becoming obvious to me that I was being baited.Physics and logic may well confuse some people,but a stubborn refusal to accept facts is pathetic.Cheers

 

6BDAE47C-F5AC-49E9-B771-83BC793A6A15.png


 Do you always talk about yourself on forums mate ?



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smile   smile   smile   biggrin



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