Interesting.

I have had a similar experiences this tour with our brakes, I just can not get the caravan brakes right.

I am thinking our 20 year old Hayman Reece trailer brake controller is the problem.

Our trailer brakes are all good, maybe adjustment now, the ute is well maintained, no question there.

I hope we get some really helpful replies to work with.

deverall11 wrote:

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Greg, when you mention 'new van', is it new or new to you. If new from a dealer, yes take it back and get the brakes checked.
If new to you, may be the brakes need adjusting.
In my personal experience, getting the brake controller to work like it should in the instructions
was a never never.
Ended up settling for a manual override. What I mean by that is that I would increase the
brake bias to the van as we came to a stop, albeit most of the time. If just slowing down no so much
but when it came to stopping, I would feel for the van to brake and feather the adjustment.
This was 3.5t rated van being pulled by a 200 series Landcruiser.
Maybe some of the new digital brake controllers may work better or can be more finely
adjusted.
If you van has drum brakes, they are all the same. The assumption is made that it was
built correctly with the proper size drums and magnets for the size of the van.
Larry

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 New to me. It is about 12 years old and purchased privately. Though I think it is in excellent condition, it could be that the brakes have never been adjusted since new.

Gundog wrote:

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Elecmuso wrote:

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I think a new brake controller a porportional crontoller like the Tekonsha P3 are very good

I have a P3 and love it, everytime I hook up the caravan I reset according to the instructions, the large manual lever is easy to locate and use.

Its more than likely I'll get a bit of heat from this statement, but the biggest issue with overheating brakes is automatic transmissions because there is a heavy reliance on brakes, unless you learn to change down gears rather than heavy braking, because I have a manual I am using the gearbox to slow the combination down before breaking. In particular when decending hills I use the correct gear to decend, and use short controlled applications of the overide lever using the caravan brakes to slow the rig down, 2 or 3 applications of the caravan brakes and then 1 of ute so not to overheat the Ute brakes.

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Yes good point re: downhill driving. Something I'm aware of but should do more. However in this case I had been driving around the suburbs for nearly an hour at mostly <50kph. Admittedly it COULD be that the brake heat buildup was initiated some time before I made it into the suburbs and was kept hot by frequent stopping / starting in traffic (which was particularly frequent being school pickup peak hour).

jegog wrote:

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If buying a used caravan one would be wise to fit new brake pads and repack the wheel bearings.
Automatic transmissions are designed to accelerate and to hold momentum, not for braking - that's what brakes are for.
And repairing brakes is a lot cheaper than repairing an automatic transmission.
However if someone can show me a vehicle manufacturer which recommends using engine braking I will reconsider.
Towing a caravan downhill using engine braking seems a lot less stable than using brakes with a break controller. For a start the caravan is pushing the tug via the tow-ball while the tug is trying to go slower; not unlike pushing a brick around with a stick.

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 Use the same gear to descend a hill as you go up the hill, in a manual that easy to know as you change the gear to go up, In an auto the gear box just keeps downshifting untill it get up the hill, going down that same hill you will need to identify the correct gear, to prevent overheating brakes.

A good example is Macquarie Pass, that decends the Great Dividing Range from Robertson (great pie shop there) down to the NSW south coast, towing a caravan up the pass more than likely you would be switching between 2nd and 3rd gears, decending the Pass if you left your transmision in drive by the time you reached the bottom of the pass your brakes would red hot and smoking. There you would manually select 3rd in the auto transmission to slow the decent possibily choose 2nd in some of the steeper sections also using controlled braking.

When we came down the pass I left my manual in 2nd gear, using the electric brake controllers manual overide to slow the caravan inertia, alternating between the all and caravan only breaking application.

Elecmuso wrote:

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Long story but I will try to keep it as short as I can.

1. In this instance I was towing with a BF Falcon fitted with Tekonsha Primus brake controller
2. After several hours of towing I experienced a disturbing brake fade. There was no traffic around but I had recently experienced a circumstance where I'd braked hard.
3. Seeing the mechanic the next day he found the brake fluid was >4% hydroscopic which could explain the vapour in the brake lines causing the fade. He bled and replaced the brake fluid. Still I was concerned as to why the fluid had gotten so hot. This was a new van and our maiden voyage.
4. The new van is smaller than our old. It is an Avan Cruiseliner around 1100kg. But here's the thing. When I was attempting to calibrate the brake controller I was not able to make the van brakes lockup by setting the gain to max (unlike our old Jayco Expanda). Instead I could feel a steady reassuring pull coming from the van brakes when triggered manually (lever on the brake controller) that brought the entire rig to rest comfortable (and without using the tug brakes). I had assumed this was normal and satisfactory.
5. So my question is, does this suggest that the van brakes need adjusting such that should I be running through the Tekonsha procedure I am ABLE to lock up the wheels? Then back off the brake controller gain a notch or two? This would mean that I have maximum braking capacity through the van without it locking up. Also means the tug is doing less work and brakes / brake fluid won't get so hot.
6. It is all a bit hard to explain in this forum post but hopefully the post below with the controller and brake adjustment should help clarify what I am trying to put into words.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-MkpQRUz1M

-- Edited by Elecmuso on Sunday 31st of July 2022 02:47:08 AM

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 As just about usual these replies to the post are as useless as tits on a bull.

Can we get some real answers on brake controllers please.

Really my main question is summarised in point 5. And I am leaning towards yes the brakes need to be adjusted to make up for some brake shoe wear. Thereby making them more sensitive and able to be locked up when the gain is set too high (and subsequently backed off to the point where they don't lockup). This is how the manual says it should be done and is how I previously calibrated the brake controller gain for my previous van.

So who has adjusted their own brakes as per this YouTube video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cOyJ9ELoxg

jegog wrote:

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If buying a used caravan one would be wise to fit new brake pads and repack the wheel bearings.
Automatic transmissions are designed to accelerate and to hold momentum, not for braking - that's what brakes are for.
And repairing brakes is a lot cheaper than repairing an automatic transmission.
However if someone can show me a vehicle manufacturer which recommends using engine braking I will reconsider.
Towing a caravan downhill using engine braking seems a lot less stable than using brakes with a break controller. For a start the caravan is pushing the tug via the tow-ball while the tug is trying to go slower; not unlike pushing a brick around with a stick.

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 Might I suggest that the modern Auto transmissions have an *S* mode which provides the driver with the function to use the transmission in manual form.

To suggest that this is harmful to the transmission is incorrect but I wont go into the technical side of the operation of the modern automatic.

Having said this, using the auto trans as part of the function of engine braking when descending a hill should be considered as a normal operation which would be used by a driver with the skill to actually be towing a caravan.

Driving and towing a caravan with a car involves a lot more than what may be covered by blanket statements.

Using the same gear to go down a hill as you might use to go up it is good basic advice.

To rely on using the caravan brakes to descend a hill might easily result in complete brake fade well before the vehicle gets to the bottom of the hill and it is at the bottom of the hill where the brakes may be needed the most.

Almost every situation can be different and with each situation it will require the need for special skills in driving the combination. The sooner a licence is required for towing a caravan, the safer we will all be.

Almost all caravans have drum brakes  and *pads* are only used when disc brakes  are used. It is common safe practice when overhauling brakes on a caravan is to replace the entire assembly of backing plate, brake shoes and linings, magnets and ancilliary parts and wiring on all wheels at the same time.

Doing this ensures that all wheels are braking equally when fitted and adjusted correctly.

It should be illegal for the average Joe or Judy to tinker with brakes and more so when those do not know what they are doing.

If you have trouble with your brakes then seek the advice of a qualified person rather than the *expertise* of some on a forum who may or may not know what they are talking about.

BaldEd wrote:

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 That video is not of the Tekonsha P3 proportional brake controller that you stated you have 9 postings above!

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I never said a Tekonsha P3. Gundog did (and somehow misquoted me). Have a look at MY posts - they all mention the Primus model (except the one where I quote Gundog).

Hence why I posted the YouTube link. To make it clear!

Elecmuso wrote:

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I am the original poster and I cannot understand why you would think that! I've not pushed the product in any way.

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 Hi Greg. First of all, welcome to the forum, where you'll find a wealth of knowledge among your fellow members. Don't allow some of the strange 'logic' displayed by other members to make you despondent, as it usually is the intent of many here to help you, although sometimes that doesn't seem to be the case! Let's hope that you are successful in sorting your brakes, but it's all a bit beyond me! I use Towpro Elite which I've found to be great. Cheers

yobarr wrote:

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Elecmuso wrote:

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I am the original poster and I cannot understand why you would think that! I've not pushed the product in any way.

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 Hi Greg. First of all, welcome to the forum, where you'll find a wealth of knowledge among your fellow members. Don't allow some of the strange 'logic' displayed by other members to make you despondent, as it usually is the intent of many here to help you, although sometimes that doesn't seem to be the case! Let's hope that you are successful in sorting your brakes, but it's all a bit beyond me! I use Towpro Elite which I've found to be great. Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 3rd of August 2022 08:35:31 PM

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 Cheers for that. Most of the comments were helpful but it only takes a couple like those to put one off.