EV for towing

yobarr · Guru

EV for towing

Gundog · Guru

Red Fox whitst this is slightly off topic but it is related because a Tesla 3 LR owner decided to produce a Youtube series about his journey from Sydney to Darwin via Rocky..

I watched day 1, 2 and part of day 3, in those video blogs was enough to confirm to me that these vehicles are unsuitable for cross country travel much less towing a trailer.

The 600k Brissy to Rocky leg but had to spend 50 minutes to recharge at Gympie which also needed a top up at Gin Gin to make Rocky, in the day 3 blog he required a 4 hour recharge with 3 phase power at Emerald beforeheading to Barcaldine.

I found a brag bit on a Edriven facebook post that he had to travel slowly to reach the Barkley Road house after leaving Mt Isa.

https://thedriven.io/2022/09/30/easier-than-you-think-sydney-to-darwin-in-an-electric-car/?fbclid=IwAR3XaEyu33Wvep9q-NOOmq2Kdg940C0TAl234C2oW9NOdZQ6ya3QqP55RQ8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7MXhfLikHg

Greg 1 · Guru

Gundog wrote:
Red Fox whitst this is slightly off topic but it is related because a Tesla 3 LR owner decided to produce a Youtube series about his journey from Sydney to Darwin via Rocky..
I watched day 1, 2 and part of day 3, in those video blogs was enough to confirm to me that these vehicles are unsuitable for cross country travel much less towing a trailer.
The 600k Brissy to Rocky leg but had to spend 50 minutes to recharge at Gympie which also needed a top up at Gin Gin to make Rocky, in the day 3 blog he required a 4 hour recharge with 3 phase power at Emerald beforeheading to Barcaldine.
I found a brag bit on a Edriven facebook post that he had to travel slowly to reach the Barkley Road house after leaving Mt Isa.
https://thedriven.io/2022/09/30/easier-than-you-think-sydney-to-darwin-in-an-electric-car/?fbclid=IwAR3XaEyu33Wvep9q-NOOmq2Kdg940C0TAl234C2oW9NOdZQ6ya3QqP55RQ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7MXhfLikHg

This is the interesting part of the discussion surrounding EV's.

Where you are travelling around cities and on major highway routes, there is often the opportunity to hook into a fast charger and so refuelling times are drastically reduced.

Some of the fast chargers charge at rates around 250kw/hrs so don't take very long at at all. A Hyundai Kona EV for example has a 64kw/hr battery so even from dead flat, which is unlikely, that is only going to take 15 to 20 minutes to charge on one of those chargers. The down side of course with these fast chargers is that they do shorten battery life and if you always use them rather that mainly trickle charging at home, then the life expectancy of you battery is going to be sadly reduced.

But when you get more remote, the chances of finding one of those types of chargers fades into the ether. And it isn't likely to get better as many of these remote places rely on solar and generators for their power supply and have very limited output, so cannot afford to be installing chargers whose outputs are in that magnitude. So the options may come down to as little as a 10 amp GPO.

Given a 10 amp GPO will give and output of 2.4kw/hrs, then the charge times can get very long. On our Kona example 25 to 30 hrs may well be your wait. Imagine the wait time with a F150 Lightning with a 115kw/hr battery.

The other thing is that power for your air-conditioning, heating and all other accessories runs off the main battery in an EV so all of that is range sapping. To get the maximum range you may well need to go back to the days of winding the window down in 40+ degree heat to make it to the next Roadhouse.

Yes it is possible to do the lap in an EV on it's own. People have done it. But what does not come out in these articles promoting EV's are the downsides to travel in remote areas with one.

In the cities and on the major highways with the fast chargers, then an EV can make perfect sense for commuting. But for remote area travel and hauling our vans about, the technology falls far short of where it needs to be.

-- Edited by Greg 1 on Tuesday 4th of October 2022 02:17:32 PM

StewG · Senior Member

I am optimistic that battery technology will continue to improve. Even more likely IMO is the hydrogen fuel cell hybrid concept to become mainstream. Given that I will only be towing for another maybe half dozen or so years (if I'm lucky), the diesel tug that I have at present will probably be the last tug that I own. So I won't be worried about range anxiety or waiting on battery improvements. On the other hand, my city-based small car might be replaced by an EV. The only concern at present is that a small ICE will cost about $20k-$40k to buy and the EV equivalent about double that at present. There is much to like about an EV; quiet, smooth, low maintenance, charge it up at home off solar, and on a trip on the eastern seaboard no problems with recharging. Yes, if you wish to do a dash of 2,000km without any break in the journey other than a couple of 5 minute stops for fuel, don't use an EV. I recall 50 years ago when friends did a 36 hour dash to Perth from Melbourne, swapping drivers along the way. That has never been my method of travel so the long distance EV trip would fit my need for regular breaks and stop-overs.

I watched the video youtu.be/HRieGSkoOAQ and found it quite interesting. The main points I noted were the caravans used were the light-weight European type and the range was of the order of say, 200km for a sedan towing depending on a host of factors. Typical Australian caravans are heavier than their European counterparts, presumably due to our rougher outback roads. My van has a typical on road weight of 2.6 tonne, roughly double that of the vans in the video and beyond the capability of the Kia EV. So my diesel tug has a range of about 500km towing the van and I can carry an extra 250km (40 litres) in jerrycans on the van. It is early days for EV towing, but not practical for me while diesel is plentiful and towing EVs are range limited.

Red Fox · Member

My God. Weights is WAY OFF TOPIC. Rude, bad mannered & arrogant. It is normal that threads stay ON TOPIC.

Mike Harding · Guru

Red Fox wrote:
My God. Weights is WAY OFF TOPIC. Rude, bad mannered & arrogant. It is normal that threads stay ON TOPIC.

Not on any news-group or forum I've participated in on the internet in the past 30 years it isn't.

yobarr · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
Red Fox wrote:
My God. Weights is WAY OFF TOPIC. Rude, bad mannered & arrogant. It is normal that threads stay ON TOPIC.
Not on any news-group or forum I've participated in on the internet in the past 30 years it isn't.

You're right, of course, Mike. Like any conversation, discussions on a forum about any one topic are likely to naturally progress into discussions about separate, but usually related, topics. Such is human nature. "Rude, bad mannered & arrogant" is the claim. Believe me, in my 7 decades on earth I've been called far worse things by far better people than the person who made that claim. Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 4th of October 2022 08:13:57 PM

yobarr · Guru

Whenarewethere wrote:
BHP, Rio Tinto & FMG have ordered battery powered locos. If you can move trains with tens of thousands of tonnes of ore, a caravan is a piece of cake.

Hi Jonathan. If you perhaps take the time to research these so-called "Battery powered locos" you will discover that things are nowhere near as "Green" as they initially appear to be. Cheers

Trailer Sailer · Senior Member

Well whilst planning to replace my regular shopping transport VW Touareg ( which was previously my primary 3500kgs rated tow vehicle) with an an appropriate long range electric vehicle (as soon as they get a decent one that can double as my house battery) I will be keeping my small diesel AWD truck for towing my nearly 3.5 ton on trailer yacht.
BTW both were capable of towing the yacht and remaining inside their GVM and GCM limits though the Touareg went close when carrying everything for extended cruising.
I hope the Isuzu NLS being a commercial truck (on a car license) that exemptions for trucks being refuelled with diesel will outlast it and perhaps even me!
I doubt in the next 10-15 years battery technology will allow my yacht tow from South East South Australia to either The Whitsundays or the Kimberleys via an electric tow vehicle in a reasonable time frame including recharging will be feasible with current technology and incremental improvements. We shall see.
At least on the sidetracked weights issue if we ever do get effective and range capable fast enough recharging electric tow vehicles they will likely be so heavy with batteries as to quiet the insistent tow vehicle must be heavier than the towed trailer crowd often posting here!
Being now retired to a remote location with a house producing a vast surplus of solar electricity currently propping up energy company profits I wait eagerly for the right electric commuter vehicle to make my occasional 110klm each way run to Adelaide and more frequent 35klms to Murray Bridge a free fuel journey provided by my homes roof solar.
I just cannot see the several thousand kilometre tow of my large yacht to my favourite sailing destination being feasible in the immediate future however hence in part investing in a new ice small truck.
PS Just in case anyone should note my over the white line trailer that was intentional road straightening on an exceptionally tight mountain pass bend in the road with a trailer killing huge curbside drainage channel whilst having good oncoming visibility not inattentive driving. :)

PS Just in case a

-- Edited by Trailer Sailer on Tuesday 4th of October 2022 10:04:12 PM

Whenarewethere · Guru

In 2014 we were touring around France for 4 months. In Aviignon they were using solar powered battery boats on the river. We had a look at the other Pope's palace in Avignon, interesting history, he knocked out all the windows which in that day & age made gold look like scrap metal in value, for new glazing.

The Pope re-tiled & re-tapestried his bedroom with artwork which would make 99% or the population blush with the various human acts of boys & girls portrayed so he could sleep well at night.

Anyway, back to battery powered modern devices. Solar & battery boats worked very well. I am sure technology has improved a touch since 2014.

Red Fox · Member

yobarr wrote:
Mike Harding wrote:
Red Fox wrote:
My God. Weights is WAY OFF TOPIC. Rude, bad mannered & arrogant. It is normal that threads stay ON TOPIC.
Not on any news-group or forum I've participated in on the internet in the past 30 years it isn't.
You're right, of course, Mike. Like any conversation, discussions on a forum about any one topic are likely to naturally progress into discussions about separate, but usually related, topics. Such is human nature. "Rude, bad mannered & arrogant" is the claim. Believe me, in my 7 decades on earth I've been called far worse things by far better people than the person who made that claim. Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 4th of October 2022 08:13:57 PM

Yes, I bet you have.

You need to think hard about why.

Greg 1 · Guru

Just need to add a correction to my previous posts regarding the F150 Lightning.

There are two batteries available for this Ute.
The standard one that comes with every model bar the very top model rated at 95kw/hr.

But if you wish to pay an additional $30,000 AUD you can have the large battery which in the latest models is now 131kw/hr.

With current exchange rates, costs of the RHD conversion etc, it is expected that this will retail here at somewhere in the vicinity of $190,000 with the large battery. At that price I am definitely not in the market for one.

Ivan 01 · Guru

Greg,

Apparently there are ways around the expensive battery option on some makes.

This technology may are off and be applied to the bigger truck type tow vehicles.

https://youtu.be/3AlndKQSs6Q

Greg 1 · Guru

Ivan 01 wrote:
Greg,

Apparently there are ways around the expensive battery option on some makes.

This technology may are off and be applied to the bigger truck type tow vehicles.

https://youtu.be/3AlndKQSs6Q

Probably cost you $30,000 in AA batteries.

Whenarewethere · Guru

Greg 1 wrote:
Ivan 01 wrote:
Greg,

Apparently there are ways around the expensive battery option on some makes.

This technology may are off and be applied to the bigger truck type tow vehicles.

https://youtu.be/3AlndKQSs6Q
Probably cost you $30,000 in AA batteries.

Reminds me of the Get Smart episode where Agent 86 desk does 60mph, but uses very expensive ink!

Ivan 01 · Guru

Greg 1 wrote:
Ivan 01 wrote:
Greg,

Apparently there are ways around the expensive battery option on some makes.

This technology may are off and be applied to the bigger truck type tow vehicles.

https://youtu.be/3AlndKQSs6Q
Probably cost you $30,000 in AA batteries.

Aldi stock of AAs would be stretched. biggrin