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Post Info TOPIC: Automatic Transmission


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Automatic Transmission


rgren2 wrote:
Mein wrote:

1. Why are you linking the issue to the automatic transmission?

2. The mechanic would / should know that fault codes cannot be cleared if the problem is persisting. For example, the fault code for a misfire can be cleared if the engine is not misfiring when the OBDII is connected. But an ABS fault code (and I'm talking first hand experience here) cannot be cleared until the fault has been remedied.

3. Diesel Particulate Filters become faulty when they become (partially) clogged and therefore do not allow sufficient exhaust gas to flow through. It's not the case that DPFs allow soot to pass through when they become faulty. Therefore, a 'white rag' test is meaningless.

4. A faulty DPF is a common cause of a vehicle going into limp mode. The 'right hand turn' scenario may just be a Red Herring.

5. Until, and unless, you remedy the DPF fault code, you're going to be chasing your tail.


 Would a 2008 vehicle have a dpf filter?


 Hmm this discussion is not helping the OP with his problem. Guessing what may apply to other models, even Toyota's for another market will not apply to Japanese domestic vehicles, which generally had the highest standard anti-pollution gear fitted as soon as possible. On a parts listing for that actual model it had DPF fitted since 08/2004. However as said that will not likely be the problem anyway.

On the subject I am also intriuged why the auto transmission is implicated in the problem. Limp home mode may be used for any perceived engine problem or transmission problem that is considered to be a danger for several reasons. But if the fault is momentary and a code is not found then it may be a fault in any system, engine or transmission. The transmission is mostly self protected in itself. 

Jaahn 

 (from the parts listing vehicle number specific)  18450-78160  Converter Assy, Monolithic

[08.2004 - 08.2006] N04C..XZB51..SULNG..6FC;N04C..XZB4#,5#..DX,EX,GX,LX,STD 



-- Edited by Jaahn on Monday 6th of February 2023 04:24:56 PM

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Check your battery terminals. A drop in voltage below a certain value will cause the computer to trigger a limp home scenario. If you have a loose terminal or the battery is loose and moving around, the right turn could be causing a poor connection and a voltage drop. All vehicles after 1996 are OBD11 compatible so there is no reason you should not be able to read the codes, it is a world wide agreement that all manufacturers made their cars compatible. Just find a reader that does Toyota codes. The internet will usually give you a list of codes for your vehicle or type in the particular code number into Google and see what comes up.

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Greg O'Brien



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Greg 1 wrote:

 All vehicles after 1996 are OBD11 compatible so there is no reason you should not be able to read the codes, it is a world wide agreement that all manufacturers made their cars compatible. 


 

A slight digression away from the topic. 

I have a 2006 Nissan Patrol ute & have been told what you suggest above by others in the past.  Whilst possible to connect to an OBD port I believe it may just be an OBD 1 . A friend with a laptop & programme capable of reading OBD1 & 2 connected it to my car several years ago,  but it only showed  2 or three things,  all of which could be read without OBD. I can't recall definitely what they were now, other than RPM. I think perhaps charging voltage & perhaps coolant temperature. No fault codes. Nothing else. The laptop owning friend  & a fellow Patrol owner who had been convinced that the car would be OBD11 compatible was very surprised to find it not so. 

The Patrol utes were generally of the specs of earlier models. ie. in 2006 Patrol wagons were GU4 spec, whilst the DX 4.2 utes were still GU2 spec, but even GU2 was at least 6 years after 1996. 



-- Edited by Cuppa on Wednesday 8th of February 2023 01:11:42 PM

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Greg 1 wrote:

Check your battery terminals. A drop in voltage below a certain value will cause the computer to trigger a limp home scenario. If you have a loose terminal or the battery is loose and moving around, the right turn could be causing a poor connection and a voltage drop. All vehicles after 1996 are OBD11 compatible so there is no reason you should not be able to read the codes, it is a world wide agreement that all manufacturers made their cars compatible. Just find a reader that does Toyota codes. The internet will usually give you a list of codes for your vehicle or type in the particular code number into Google and see what comes up.


 This is still ot helping the OP with his problem !

Greg you are not correct in that statement IMHO. The Americans mandated it for all cars sold in their area of legislation and huffed and puffed and said everyone should do it their way too. But then all others did not do it that way ! Of course when you get on the internet you get the same answer because the USA dominates that too but it proves that you cannot believe all you read on there also.hmmbiggrin 

I have worked on lots of cars Japanese, European and Australian made that were made in the early-mid 2000's that did not support OBD2. Europeans still use EOBD now. Japanese imports did not use it as it was of no importance to them as they were made for their own market only. And as far as the Nissan Patrol goes it was probably classified as a truck so car rules did not apply anyway, that loophole was used often in Australia for 4WDs to avoid the design rules here. Still Toyota is doing that !

On a 2013 VW UP my simple code reader recently gave me a code for a fault light, and going into limp mode. But when I put some VW specific software on it the codes were quite different, (but still in the general throttle control area). If I was trouble shooting using the OB2 reader I would have been chasing my tail. Looking on the 'net for the trouble code given came up with a dozen different possible problems. None were the actual problem found in the end.  It was a faulty throttle body internal position sensor ??

Jaahn   

 



-- Edited by Jaahn on Wednesday 8th of February 2023 12:25:24 PM

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I have a 2006 Nissan Patrol ute . . . . . I believe it may just be an OBD 1

From what I've read, the 2006 Nissan Patrol uses 'Nissan Consult' system. Patrols changed to OBDII in 2008.



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Mein wrote:

I have a 2006 Nissan Patrol ute . . . . . I believe it may just be an OBD 1

 

From what I've read, the 2006 Nissan Patrol uses 'Nissan Consult' system. Patrols changed to OBDII in 2008.


 Now that you mention it, I think that sounds right, but whatever they called it, plugging into it was a waste of time. 



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Now that you mention it, I think that sounds right, but whatever they called it, plugging into it was a waste of time.

Holden did the same thing with 4 models of the Commodore - VT, VX, VY and VZ. They used the ALDL system. You could plug an OBD2 in but it couldn't read anything.



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Regarding OBD standards there is some good reading at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics .Should be read all the way through.

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Seems an elect issue . Have you checked all the earths ? Battery, chassis to motor ! Even running another to be sure ? Is the trans mounts in ok condition . Could be moving and pulling itself into N Neutral ? Exhaust filter wouldnt have anything to do with cornering ! Water in fuse box is where I would start as its a red flag for other things like corrosion etc . How many keys are on the key ring ? I guess youve checked looms for touching and shorting ?? Tape and few dear I suggest ? Cable ties .

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Hi, Jaahn

Thanks for your suggestion, I still have the same problem even without water entering into the fuse box, the odd thing I can drive hundreds of Km up & down steep Mountain passes without a problem, jet once I get int a Town or slow down usually on intersection but lately verry often after pulling into a rest stop or petrol station, after I have stopped for some time and drive off the vehicle would stay in a low gear ( don't know which gear  I am in?) the rpm go up but no gear change occurs. usually it goes to about 70 Km then the RPM getting to high then I pull over, restart immediately and it be good for many Km without problems. I am trying to bay a reasonable priced (~3-400 $)  OBD2 -24v but have not have much luck, no one wants to guaranty there product will be suitable for my JDM Vehicle and I am not prepared to experiment, so I am still driving with this rather dangerous situation,

Regards John



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John Udvardi


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In my case one problem . Was the lift pump from fuel tank supply fuel to injector pump . Detroit diesel .

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If you do not already have a scanner I would be looking at something like the item below.

www.jaltest.com/en/coverage/3/536/3387/bus/toyota/coaster-40-diesel-turbo/

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PeterInSa wrote:

If you do not already have a scanner I would be looking at something like the item below.

www.jaltest.com/en/coverage/3/536/3387/bus/toyota/coaster-40-diesel-turbo/


 Peter that is new to me but i guessed there would be an independent scanner as Toyota in those days was such a big supplier around the world. It defines the protocol used but they look expensive.

I might search for a cheaper Asian clone for my own interest and see what I can find ! Be one somewhere for sure with thousands of busses everywhere around Asia and they often had body electronics too. 

Jaahn        



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Hi. Yes my 2008 Imported Vehicle does have this Filter, it has two sensors one on each side, how could I find out if it is intermitted faulty? I am still have problem finding a OBD2 tester. even our Toyota Dealers cant check it, they have no 24v reader, I am still trying to bay one suitable for my Vehicle, so far no Luck.

Grandpa



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John Udvardi


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grandpa wrote:

Hi. Yes my 2008 Imported Vehicle does have this Filter, it has two sensors one on each side, how could I find out if it is intermitted faulty? I am still have problem finding a OBD2 tester. even our Toyota Dealers cant check it, they have no 24v reader, I am still trying to bay one suitable for my Vehicle, so far no Luck.

Grandpa


 Hi Grandpa,

I have already said that I thought the problem was an intermittent short somewhere and possibly a wire hanging loose or worn through the insulation. But what would I know only years of experience. 

Why someone suggested it could be the DPF after your description of the problem is a mystery to me. The symptoms sounded nothing like the problems they cause. They do not usually go away by stopping and restarting the engine. But a forum warrior has spoken ??

Here is my suggestion for a line of enquiry for having it scanned. Go to a place that does real modern servicing on trucks and get them to scan it. Most larger trucks have 24V systems and they are all fully electronic these days. It will cost you but you should be able to find someone to scan it for you or refer you to a place that will. There would be a Hino truck or Toyota service center that could scan it because there are modern Toyota Coaster and Hino trucks in use here later than yours.

https://www.hino.com.au/service/    As all Hino trucks are imported from Japan they might not be as uncoperative as Toyota is. I have found that problem with Toyota in past years refusing to supply parts or even to lookup their data base for vehicles not supplied in Australia. I just use an overseas data base now to get the genuine part numbers for any Toyota using the Vehicle number.

EG Megazip https://www.megazip.net  

Forget about buying a scanner as you have no experience using one and paying good money for something that gives you reads-outs you do not understand will be just compounding your problems. IMHO.

Jaahn        



-- Edited by Jaahn on Tuesday 11th of July 2023 06:10:13 PM

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The 2006 NS Gen 4 Pajero had the DPF and certainly some had issues with limp mode faults. The one I had definitely did.
However as far as I am aware DPF are not fitted to the NT, NW and the early NX however it is on the 2017 NX I have now. It has not caused any issues (yet).

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I'm with Jaahn on this one go directly to Hino or a Truck Specialist, I mean scanners are not generic to a single manufacture.

I have a bluetooth OBDII port reader connected to my Ranger full time that connects to my phone with an app called Torque, on one ocassion I had an error code advise that a throttle position sensor was faulty, hence the cruise control would not work, clearing the fault code done nothing, but when I had the mechanic look at it, he knew straight hooked his OBDII cable to his laptop and reset the the cruise control module and then updated the ECU took less than an hour never had aproblem since.



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Hi,All

I have a very peculiarly Transmission problem with my Imported 2008 Coaster and I cant seem to get it fixed.

Vehicle Specification as follow:

Model: BDG-XZB51-ZRTQ4

Engine: Hino N04C-UB 4009 160 HP Turbo Inter cooled

Transmission: Aisin Automatic 6 speed, S/N SA-2407, (A860E/A861E)

History of Problems:

The Vehicle would run perfectly normal on long trips for hundreds of Km, however entering a Town and going into a roundabout (right turn only!) it would go immediately into limp mode, the only way to restore normal drive was to turn the ignition off and immediately restart the vehicle and it would be fine until the next sharp right hand turn.

I consulted several Auto Transmission repair shop with that problem but got so many conflicting solution and quotes from $ 400 to $ 6000 for a complete rebuild and other suggestions like remove the entire fuel system for cleaning, complete fuel injection service, on board Computer replacement and many other suggestions. One very helpful Specialist spend an hour investigating but could not find anything, in the end he gave up and to his credit did not charge anything for his effort.

I decided that once I get home I will check all the fuses and wiring myself, There are 3 fuse boxes the last one I checked was  next to the front of to Vehicle batteries practically fully exposed to the element under the chassis, as I  removed the cover of the fuse box water run all over my hand ! that to me immediately explained that water would have been  splashed to the outside of the fuse box and effecting a particular fuse giving probably some conflicting info to the onboard computer?, I never had this problem before but then it did never rain as much as it did in the past few weeks!

After drying  out the fuses and the box I took the Vehicle for a test run a docent times around a roundabout and as I expected there was no problems, I also discovered that the fuse box is factory installed up-side down! With the sealed lid at the bottom and the bottom with a slope to a drain hole on top! Also the cable entry was not sealed at all. After several other water entries into the box I relocated the box to the front of the Battery facing the offside with the lid now facing upwards and the drain holes on the bottom. This seem to fix the problem once and for all, thats what I thought, I just come back from a long trip (no rain) going up & down steep mountains no problems, drove into Town and now the problem is back again? But with a dry fuse box? Are there any sensors that my effect this situation ?

Has any one of you any suggestions how to attack this problem? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Grandpa

 

Hi All . had another unusual protentional verry expensive experience with my Coaster. 



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John Udvardi


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Hi John I have taken the liberty to post your attachment in full as it is very interesting and instructive. I could not easily get it to load from your link ! It shows how new modern mechanics can be lead astray by relying on a computer scan and not checking the basics !!
Jaahn


Hi All,
I like to share a recent horrible experience I had with my Toyota Coaster
The Vehicle is a 2008 Model import from Japan, converted in Brisbane to their Diamond Series it has presently 172,000 Km.
On a recent trip we arrived on a camp site Friday night, the vehicle performed perfectly going over the Snowy Mountains. Saturday morning we received a call informing us that a Bushfire has broken out at our Property and is raging out of control, several Fire Trucks and a Water bombing Helicopter where on site.
So, as one could imagine we immediately wanted to return Home but guess what. The Vehicle refused to start no matter what was tried by the NRMA.
There was no Hire Vehicle available for us to go Home. The nearest Town with repair facility was Wagga Wagga but all big Garages where booked out for weeks on end. One Company pointed us to a Truck Repair Shop who might be able to help, so the NRMA transported the vehicle to Wagga Wagga.
There, the Mechanic connected his Scanner to the on Board Computer and one hour later after consulting with others gave us the result. All Injectors are faulty, and because they would not do a botchy Job! ( that could ruin their reputation) they would also take out the Injector pump which could also be faulty, there was also a possibility that some Pistons might have a crack!
There estimated repair cost would be between $10,000 to $15,000 and it may as well be cheaper to replace the Engine!
The bill for this exercise $ 580.00 and no physical work whats owe ever was done apart from using the Scanner.
Being an Ex-Motor Mechanic myself I checked for fuel at the injector, there was none, so the common rail had no pressure which made me think that there might be no fuel to the pump it could also be a faulty fuel shut off valve, but this was entirely dismissed as nonsense by the Diesel Experts.
As it made absolutely no sense what they were telling me. I called the NRMA again who brought my vehicle another 300Km back home. Some local garages told me a similar story but left the hole in the piston out, but were also fully booked out.
Several days later I was given the name of a Mobile Diesel Mechanic who, as it happen was living only about 20 km from us who was willing to have a look at the vehicle, he also agreed with my assumption that Injectors dont go bad over night.
That young Mechanic done his Diesel Mechanic Apprentice ship with the Army and spend the next 8 years repairing all kind of diesel vehicles and he also worked on Toyota Coaster with the Hino Engines, two and a half hours later my vehicle was running as smooth as it was before, the course of the problem appeared to be a loose intermitted connection on the shut of valve.
I have been driving the vehicle now for a couple of thousand Km without a problem and hope it stays that way.
Total cost of the repair ( no parts required ) $300 .
The NRMA where fantastic and tried to get us home as quick as possible but circumstances where against us all the way.
In conclusion: it demonstrates how important it is to get a good second opinion before you commit to a very expensive suggestive repair.
Our Home and Sheds where saved, but the fire came within several meters to the House, appr. 30 Acre was burned out.
16 October 2023
Regards John



-- Edited by Jaahn on Sunday 19th of November 2023 05:02:57 PM

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Hi, Jaahn

I have driven since that "Repair" about 4000 Km without any starting problem, so hopefully that was all what the problem was,
Interestingly I contacted the Garage which Quoted me the 10000 to 15000 repair and they quietly refunded the entire money thy took of me without any comment!
Yet my problem with the Limp mode keeps persisting ! As I said before I can start a Journey drive 2 to 300 Km non stop through the Mountains twisting through sharp bends rocking ap and down - no miss! yet if I get into a Town or stop somewhere and after a while drive off again, it might get into Limp mode again, a stop, ignition off and on again, its good again for the rest of the Journey that day. The next Day start off, no problem until I stop again. it drives me nuts!
I will ask the Mechanic wo found my starting problem if he would use my Vehicle on day when he goes shopping int Town ( he nearly passing my place on his way to town ) and put his Scanner on while doing his Shopping, it my record some codes, I have never seen any alarms on the Dashboard either so its still a mystery to be solved. Perhaps with luck I might still get,
Regards John

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John Udvardi


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Hi John,
Your saga is not done yet. That is interesting but possibly not to you personally. It is interesting too that you got a 'no questions asked' refund on the ineffective and misleading work and quote from that other garage.

I believe you are on the right track to ask the good mechanic to do some driving with his scanner plugged in. Then if he gets it to stop and go into a limp mode he can immediately look at live data and the circumstances that were being shown before the event. If it is in limp or restricted mode then there will certainly be some data to say why. A good scanner will show recorded data from the computer at the time of an event. It may depend on the scanner though and how it can interprets the Toyota data.

I do not believe you will get any codes ! Sorry ! Codes when set for problems never go away just by switching off and restarting. They are held in memory for later examination always and particularly when a dash light has been set on. But there will be data in there held in memory to be found by a qualified scanner. Hmm finding one is the problem. I still think it is a loose wire or bad contact or even the ign switch but just guessing !
good luck Jaahn



-- Edited by Jaahn on Thursday 25th of January 2024 10:01:26 AM



-- Edited by Jaahn on Thursday 25th of January 2024 10:05:01 AM

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Just cements my reasoning never to buy another diesel.

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Hi John,

When you dried and refitted the fuse box it seemed to have solved the problem for a while.

Don't know how many fuses are in the box, but, I would attempt to trace back each wire from the box and check the terminations on the engine and gearbox for corrosion and looseness.

I would look carefully in the vicinity of where the water was possibly leaking over cables and connections.

It may be as simple and similar as the original no-start problem that the mechanic had solved.

Good luck!



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Bicyclecamper wrote:

Just cements my reasoning never to buy another diesel.


 Ric that is a strange statement !!hmm

IMHO the fact it is diesel or petrol is not relevant to the problem. It is caused by electricity being involved with the vehicle and modern complications ! aww

If it was an earlier diesel with a mechanical pump then it would be immune from silly problems like this. All you needed was a wire fitted to the pump cut-off lever coming to the driver. It was common in PNG and up the bush here, for the electric fuel cut-off motor to fail due to creek crossings so it was removed and replaced by a wire 'control' which never failed in my experience. I drove a 7 Ton early Toyota truck for a week up in the mountains there, with failed alternator, by just roll starting it. No electricity need to run during the day. Possibly a squirt of ether helped from cold. Ahh the good ol'days  awwno

Jaahn



-- Edited by Jaahn on Friday 26th of January 2024 12:06:52 PM

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