Ring hayman Reese, quite approachable mob.

Phil P wrote:

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Thanks for the replies, I did email Hayman Reese with no response. I'm yet to do a trip with the Triton previously had a Hilux with a GVM Upgrade. I did a quick trip to put the caravan into storage and the rear of the Triton dropped 4 cm. The caravan was not packed properly and had no water in the tanks. I just purchased a 2nd hand set of WDH in case I need them for my next trip in a couple of weeks.

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Try phoning Hayman Reese via a main connection.

 Sometimes, I find companies can get less than efficient in checking their inboxs or phone messages. Recently, I emailed a technical question and also left a phone message at, supposedly, a company tech support location.

No response, so I found the company's phone number which happened to be different.  I telephoned, leaving a phone message on another tech support location. I received a helpful callback within half an hour.

Phil P wrote:

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Thanks for the replies, I did email Hayman Reese with no response. I'm yet to do a trip with the Triton previously had a Hilux with a GVM Upgrade. I did a quick trip to put the caravan into storage and the rear of the Triton dropped 4cm. The caravan was not packed properly and had no water in the tanks. I just purchased a 2nd hand set of WDH in case I need them for my next trip in a couple of weeks.

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 Not wanting to get too involved I will say only that a 4cm drop is not any cause for concern. Your car has an 1840kg rear axle, around same as Ranger, Colorado, DMax etc with tow ratings of 3000kg or more. Getting the car and van level is of no real importance, given that your van is a relatively light single axle model, so probably no need for WDH at all UNLESS you plan to carry huge weights in the tray when towing.

You do, of course, realise that a WDH adds weight to your van's axle so you may inadvertently exceed your van's ATM because a WDH does NOT change towball weight. 

You have said "I was impressed how well it worked in terms of distributing the weight to the front axles", which would suggest that you've used a weighbridge to check your weights, and you've returned a lot of weight to tge front axle. You must always be very careful not to take TOO much weight off the car's rear axle. Oversteer when towing a PIG trailer is not much fun! Cheers

P.S It must be noted also that a WDH puts a lot of down-pressure on the drawbar of the van, which sometimes causes problems! 

 

As I rapidly scrolled down to add my input here on Hayman Reese ph or email support, (which I have first hand experience from multiple times), I see a stupidly larger and overly used picture of a 'tragedy' caravan picture posted.  So I stop at that point and see the usual suspect has chimed in with their/him/they/them's interpretation of physics and logic.  

DKE.

I now refrain from any comment in this cursed thread apart from seek advice from a expert.

yobarr wrote:

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KJB wrote:

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A ....WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION HITCH..... DISTRIBUTES some weight from the REAR AXLE of the Tow Vehicle to the Front Axle of the Tow Vehicle and, at the same time, some Weight from the REAR AXLE of the Tow Vehicle to the Caravan/Trailer Axle Group.  

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 Thanks Kerry for AGAIN stating what is so obvious to so many.

To avoid dignifying the post by a member who seems not interested in learning I had decided not to post further, but I will again try to explain.    . This topic has been extensively covered many times before, and I have posted screenshots of information from the Hayman Reese website that clearly states that a WDH DOES NOT CHANGE TOWBALL WEIGHT. Period.

One member suggests that the OP "seek advice from an expert" when I previously have posted such advice, direct from the HR website, and confirmed by screenshots direct from that website. 

For those who cannot understand the workings of a WDH could I suggest this simple exercise that clearly shows the  effects.

Visit a weighbridge with your car and van, complete with your WDH fitted, but untensioned.

1) Weigh front axle of car and note weight.

2) Drive car onto weighbridge and note total weight of car. (GVM, to keep things simple)

3)Deduct front axle weight from total to determine rear axle weight.

4) Move forward so both car and van are on weighbridge, and note that total weight. (GCM, to keep things simple)

5) You now can deduct GVM from GCM to get weight on caravan axles. Alternatively, drive forward until only van axle group is on bridge. Note weight.

6) Reverse until only front axle of car is on weighbridge

7) Get out of car and tension WDH. Get back into car.

8) Record front axle weight. It will have increased.

9) Drive car onto weighbridge and record total weight of car. (GVM?). It will have decreased. 

10) Deduct front axle weight from total weight of car to determine rear axle weight. It will have decreased.

11) Move forward so both car and van are on weighbridge. Record weight. Total weight (GCM?) will still be as it was before WDH was tensioned. Deduct GVM from GCM to get weight on van's axle group. OR, drive forward until only van's axle group is on weighbridge. Note weight. It will have increased.

Simple stuff that will show beyond doubt, even to those with the most convoluted views and hare-brained theories, how a WDH works. 

Weight on front axle of car plus weight on rear axle of car plus weight on van's axle group will ALWAYS give the same GCM, with or without WDH.

Towball weight will NEVER change. 

Because weighbridges generally weigh in 20kg increments there may be slight variations with individual weights, but total weight won't change.

If anybody still doesn't understand, could I respectfully suggest that you contact Hayman Reese direct, and let them know that, after 50 years building WDH units, they still don't know what they're talking about. Cheers

P.S If any body would like to learn how a WDH actuall works much information can be found in previous threads on the topic, complete with screenshots of information provided by Hayman Reese.

-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 4th of February 2023 09:25:01 PM

Brenda and Alan wrote:

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yobarr wrote:

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9) Drive car onto weighbridge and record total weight of car. (GVM?). It will have decreased. 

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 Yobarr you are either very thick or your just trying to cause problems.

The above quote proves that the WDH has reduced the weight added to the car from the drawbar as the weight of the vehicle itself does not and cannot change as it is determined  solely by its mass.

As for Haymen Reece they claim that the only way to determine towball weight is WITH the van unhitched.

 The RTA at least in Vic know that this is not the case and determine tow ball weight as weight car with the hitched van minus weight of car alone. This applies with or without the use of a WDH.

The rest of your argument implies the van becomes heavier and the car becomes lighter. That is not what Newton postulated so perhaps you could come up with a new theory of universal gravitation. Peraps if you do you could let NASA know as they seem to have managed very well with Newtons

Alan

 

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 Back to your ramblings. If you care to conduct a weighing exercise with your car and van, following my list of suggested instructions, you will quickly  see that what I say is correct. Your continued waffling-on about things you clearly have little understanding is of no concern to me, but I am concerned that others may be misled by your words.

You are entitled to your opinion, but for heaven's sake don't let your confusion negatively affect members who simply are trying to learn. Cheers

 

 

-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 5th of February 2023 03:12:09 AM

The tensioning of the WDH adds an applied torque (moment) to the whole vehicle/van system, at the hitch location. With a tensioned WDH, the leverage of the bars and connections in the hitch distribute the axle loads of the whole rig differently to the untensioned state.

The distribution is such that more load is shared to the vehicle's front and more load is shared to the van's wheels with a reduction of downward load to the vehicle's rear wheels.

I have WDH which I use on good roads. I am mindful that "off-road" driving can cause (excessive) high forces around the tow bar area of the vehicle and van's A frame and should be avoided.

This thread moved away from the original query. Hopefully, the further comments can move back to the OP's query.

Brenda and Alan wrote:

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Yobarr item 9 in your previous post shows a decrease in weight  with a WDH. If as you say the towball weight has not changed then ipso facto the car has magically reduced in weight. Remember F=ma. So you are effectively saying the force of gravity is reduced by a wdh. This is just nonsense.

You clearly have very little understanding and less knowledge of physics than you think you have.

Look at your own post again and absorb the numbers that prove conclusively that you are just plain wrong.

It is you who continues to waffle on on a subject you know little about. Seek out a high school physics teacher and educate yourself on the subject.

Alan

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 Alan, it is becoming somewhat monotonous trying to make you understand how a WDH works so all I can now do is ask you to take your car and van to a weighbridge and conduct the tests I've described. Provided that you don't try to fiddle the figures to suit your agenda, it soon will become clear to you that what I've posted is absolutely correct. Not negotiable.

If you tensioned a suitable WDH to extremes it is probable that you could lift the rear wheels of a car off the ground. 

Because there is NO WAY that ALL the car's weight now is on the front axle, the total weight that the car exerts on the ground (GVM?) is reduced. The weight that is not supported by the  car's front axle now is supported by the van's axle group. Simple stuff. 

Because this has been extensively covered in the past, and you STILL don't seem to understand, there is little more that I can do EXCEPT pray that the rubbish you post doesn't negatively affect some poor unsuspecting newbie, or even a current member looking to learn more.

As I have said before, many questions about weights are asked by members who, deep down, know that their cars are overweight, but ask questions in the desperate hope that they'll get the answers they so desperately seek. Your convoluted theories add to their confusion, and do nothing to help.

There is little doubt that you believe that your theories are correct, and that you post only with the best of intentions, which is admirable, but unfortunately you're wrong. Cheers

Another result of a WDH putting downforce on the drawbar, which obviously means that the weight on the van's axle group increases.

Brenda and Alan wrote:

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You understand what a WDH does but not how it does it.

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Exactly.

You are wasting your time with trying to get Yobarr to agree. He can only parrot what others have said without being able to explain it. Many times he has been asked and many times he has avoided doing so. But it's a minor point and can't be directly measured without some specialist equipment.

Yobarr if you stopped your relentless pasting of the same unrelated photos on multiple threads it would be appreciated.

 

I received a phone call today from a former work colleague who looks in on this forum and he said two things to me.

1 You have hijacked Phil P post for which I apoligise.

2 Don't argue with fools.

On a closing note since yobarr is fond of finding quotes on the internet here is one for him.

Voltaire "It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere"

Alan

 

Come on now, the resident Xspurt can't be wrong, surely. Never!

To Brenda and Alan -
Yobar unfortunately has absolutely no understanding of "mass".
That mass is predicated upon the number and type of molecules it consists of is foreign to him.
He does not understand that a body with a mass of 100kg will still have a mass of 100kg whether it is on the beach, on top of Mt. Everest or even the moon.
In various points he has stated that a WDH alters the mass of the trailer and the vehicle.
He time and time again equates weight to mass.
Without understanding what mass is, and what weight is, he is incapable of understanding the physics involved.
He makes observations, which are correct, but his explanations are completely wrong.
I am reminded of Ibn al-Haytham An Arab mathematician who in his book Kitab Al Manazer proposed that the eyes receive light reflected from objects, rather than emanating light themselves, contradicting contemporary beliefs, including those of Ptolemy and Euclid.
The Greeks relied upon observations, whereas Ibn al-Haytham went back to first principals and step by step developed his proof.

rgren2 wrote:

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A handy hint for when you flip the shank, take the towball off then put it on the opposite side.

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A very good point, and I would add - make sure you disconnect the caravan before you flip the shank 

 

Legal. Yes. I asked the same question for use on my Iveco Daily van.