Europe officially passes 2035 ban on new petrol and diesel cars

Jaahn · Guru

EUROPE OFFICIALY BANS ICE CARS FOR SALE AFTER 2035.

Mike Harding · Guru

Won't happen.

Radar · Guru

I find this hard to believe.

Xyz · Veteran Member

Its coming, get over it, probably won't effect many of us but we will see the start of it. The old petrol/ diesel guzlers won't dissappear over night but you probably won't be buying any new ones, thats for sure. All you dinosaurs out there will just have to accept change. Ian

vince56 · Senior Member

I find it unbelievable that someone would come on here and call us "dinosaurs". I suspect it is click bait.

To all our normal forum readers,

The issue is that there is not enough power to use those EV's in metro areas now and likely will never be with increasing Green agendas, no gov't will satisfy the nation's power needs with unreliable wind and solar. Nuclear will help immensely if we can ever get around the green lovies and doomsayers.

We have all seen the huge line-ups at charging stations already in this country, EV's will almost NEVER be satisfactory in the bush, we simply can't supply charging stations every 200kms around our vast shores and interior, impossible!

Typical Green logic is on show here once again, Europe hasn't got enough power today, how will they increase generation and distribution 200 to 300% to power all these hugely power-consuming cars and trucks in the next ten years?

"Dinosaurs" Xyz?, try REALISTS!

-- Edited by vince56 on Friday 17th of February 2023 10:16:15 AM

peter67 · Guru

Spot on Vince.

deverall11 · Guru

Xyz wrote:
Its coming, get over it, probably won't effect many of us but we will see the start of it. The old petrol/ diesel guzlers won't dissappear over night but you probably won't be buying any new ones, thats for sure. All you dinosaurs out there will just have to accept change. Ian

X2. 2035, 12 years away. A lot can happen in 12 years. Besides this applies to new car sales. This means you will not be able

to purchase a new ICE vehicle.Nothing about not being able to keep your ICE vehicle.

Nothing forcing you to trade. Dinosaurs at work again. Maybe a Bex and a lie down. I'm sure you remember what a Bex is.

Aussie1 · Guru

Yep, definitely spot on Vince.

Gary and Barb · Senior Member

vince56 wrote:
I find it unbelievable that someone would come on here and call us "dinosaurs". I suspect it is click bait.
To all our normal forum readers,
The issue is that there is not enough power to use those EV's in metro areas now and likely will never be with increasing Green agendas, no gov't will satisfy the nation's power needs with unreliable wind and solar. Nuclear will help immensely if we can ever get around the green lovies and doomsayers.

We have all seen the huge line-ups at charging stations already in this country, EV's will almost NEVER be satisfactory in the bush, we simply can't supply charging stations every 200kms around our vast shores and interior, impossible!
Typical Green logic is on show here once again, Europe hasn't got enough power today, how will they increase generation and distribution 200 to 300% to power all these hugely power-consuming cars and trucks in the next ten years?

"Dinosaurs" Xyz?, try REALISTS!

-- Edited by vince56 on Friday 17th of February 2023 10:16:15 AM

Wow!.....just WOW!!!

-- Edited by Gary and Barb on Friday 17th of February 2023 11:01:09 AM

yobarr · Guru

vince56 wrote:
I find it unbelievable that someone would come on here and call us "dinosaurs". I suspect it is click bait.
To all our normal forum readers,
The issue is that there is not enough power to use those EV's in metro areas now and likely will never be with increasing Green agendas, no gov't will satisfy the nation's power needs with unreliable wind and solar. Nuclear will help immensely if we can ever get around the green lovies and doomsayers.

We have all seen the huge line-ups at charging stations already in this country, EV's will almost NEVER be satisfactory in the bush, we simply can't supply charging stations every 200kms around our vast shores and interior, impossible!
Typical Green logic is on show here once again, Europe hasn't got enough power today, how will they increase generation and distribution 200 to 300% to power all these hugely power-consuming cars and trucks in the next ten years?

"Dinosaurs" Xyz?, try REALISTS!

Great post Vince, but a bit too much logic for many to understand. Cheers

PeterInSa · Guru

Good One Vince, I guess in 2035 we will start to be like Cuba with more old Bangers on the road, of course the Government will dramatically increase the price of fuel to wean us off the old bangers, but by then EV's will be paying for road infrastructure/use/upkeep.

Mein · Senior Member

Opinions, and facts such as an inadequate supply of electricity, no longer matter because the ban has been made into law.

The Australian Capital Territory has already legislated the same ban - no new ICE vehicles from 2035.

I think an Australia-wide ban from 2050 is a definite possibility.

As selfish as it may sound, I won't be affected by such bans that come into play in 2035, or 2050, so my life isn't going to be impacted.

However, the lives of our children, and more so our grandchildren, are going to be very different from the lives we've enjoyed, in more ways than one.

Plain Truth · Guru

yobarr wrote:
vince56 wrote:
I find it unbelievable that someone would come on here and call us "dinosaurs". I suspect it is click bait.
To all our normal forum readers,
The issue is that there is not enough power to use those EV's in metro areas now and likely will never be with increasing Green agendas, no gov't will satisfy the nation's power needs with unreliable wind and solar. Nuclear will help immensely if we can ever get around the green lovies and doomsayers.

We have all seen the huge line-ups at charging stations already in this country, EV's will almost NEVER be satisfactory in the bush, we simply can't supply charging stations every 200kms around our vast shores and interior, impossible!
Typical Green logic is on show here once again, Europe hasn't got enough power today, how will they increase generation and distribution 200 to 300% to power all these hugely power-consuming cars and trucks in the next ten years?

"Dinosaurs" Xyz?, try REALISTS!
Great post Vince, but a bit too much logic for many to understand. Cheers

Waiting for his (D.I.D.) twin to reply.

Xyz · Veteran Member

Nah, definitly Dinosaurs, but your still allowed your opinion, but, thats mine. biggrin
And if you take offence at that, I 'm sorry but I think you may be a bit precious!! confuse
Ian

Plain Truth · Guru

Xyz wrote:
Nah, definitly Dinosaurs, but your still allowed your opinion, but, thats mine.
And if you take offence at that, I 'm sorry but I think you may be a bit precious!!
Ian

Won't be long, he will he will appear

Xyz · Veteran Member

Whatever it is that you are on, give it up , its obviously effecting your thinking. Ian

vince56 · Senior Member

I have no need to respond to keyboard warriors, but you throw out insults and hide behind your PC, typical.
You are correct, you can have your opinion, but "All you dinosaurs out there......." is not an opinion it is a snide remark.

And Bex powders, yes I recall them, you took one to help get over the people in this world who don't listen to reason.

Warren-Pat_01 · Guru

Hey chaps,
Don't knock poor old Xyz too much - at least he recognises that we might have some bite! How fearsome was a Tyrannosaurus?
Technology has been improving the efficiency of engines over the last few decades - otherwise we'd still be driving cars like G60 Nissan Patrols, the equivalent LandCruisers that gave 15mpg whether or not they were empty or loaded to the hilt, towing, charging over sand dunes, etc.

I'm certain eVs will come in, especially in cities but as already mentioned ALL of the issues need to be sorted out first - and that should include their performance in accidents, who will service them, power feeds in apartment blocks, etc. Governments keep telling us that power is in short supply on one hand, it will be more expensive but tell us to use more on the other!!

We have to look at the differences in lifestyle between Europe, the USA & Australia. We like getting away from the hectic life in our cities to sit on a creek out in the bush - something that's foreign to Europeans. We might have to make some changes as our adventurous tracks, roads disappear under the scourge of that black stuff. Perhaps our caravans of the future might have driven wheels too - who knows?

Xyz · Veteran Member

vince56 wrote:
I have no need to respond to keyboard warriors, but you throw out insults and hide behind your PC, typical.
You are correct, you can have your opinion, but "All you dinosaurs out there......." is not an opinion it is a snide remark.

And Bex powders, yes I recall them, you took one to help get over the people in this world who don't listen to reason.

Definitly NOT a key board warrior, those who know me would be laughing at that comment but all the same I can understand your thinking because there are a LOT of the same on many of these forums, this one included.

If you have taken offence, and you sound as if you have, I have called myself the same over the years because of my age and thinking. All I refer to is that as we age we tend to get left behind with the modern world SOME of the time, I'm guilty of it and most people I know are also, SOMETIMES.

On this occassion I am of the beliefe that there are a LOT on hear that are having trouble recognising the change in the world with climate change and getting rid of fossil fuels. I believe age has a lot to do as to why they think like this.

To be offended by my reference to being labeled a dinosaur probably tells me more about your character, very thin skinned. You are not alone but I am NOT one of them, call me what you want biggrin

have a good day and lighten up

Ian

dorian · Guru

Xyz wrote:
Nah, definitly Dinosaurs, but your still allowed your opinion, but, thats mine.
And if you take offence at that, I 'm sorry but I think you may be a bit precious!!
Ian

Agreed. I have plenty of opinions that would put me in the dinosaur class, but I've been called far worse things. In fact, I don't find this term offensive at all.

deverall11 · Guru

vince56 wrote:
....k.

And Bex powders, yes I recall them, you took one to help get over the people in this world who don't listen to reason.

Problem is your reasoning is seriously flawed. If the world listen and acted on intellectually challenged people,

we would still be driving steam car. BTW First electric car made was in 1832. They were shelved with the discovery

of crude oil.

PeterInSa · Guru

Reality in SA is that it will take 10+ years to build a Tunnel under our busiest main road (South Road) in Adelaide. This congestion problem should have been solved years ago.

I have not heard/read of any major planning for our power network to handle the additional power requirements for charging EV's at home/business or the potential disruption to business/homes while the cables are laid underground or on poles.( eg $X00m allocated)

SA has developed a good strategy report, but providing a network to charge X00,000 EVs at home, by 2035, with or without Solar charged batteries will need $s for the infrastructure and support from both sides of politics.( Like other states we are doing the public charger access in cities and highways)

www.energymining.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/609391/DEM-ev-strategy-consultation-report.pdf

Southern Cruizer · Guru

And reading today that those planning to build or have built all these charging stations are only thinking of ....... how many can we put in. Don't think with their brains as far as disabled or handicapped people who have to use wheelchairs or walking frames to get to other side of car. When a few are charging their vehicles the ones mentioned above are knackered, just can't get to the charging point. A lot to be learnt

aussie_paul · Guru

I wear my "Dinosaur" name tag with pride. lol biggrin

Aussie Paul. smile

shakey55 · Senior Member

vince56 wrote:
I find it unbelievable that someone would come on here and call us "dinosaurs". I suspect it is click bait.
To all our normal forum readers,
The issue is that there is not enough power to use those EV's in metro areas now and likely will never be with increasing Green agendas, no gov't will satisfy the nation's power needs with unreliable wind and solar. Nuclear will help immensely if we can ever get around the green lovies and doomsayers.

We have all seen the huge line-ups at charging stations already in this country, EV's will almost NEVER be satisfactory in the bush, we simply can't supply charging stations every 200kms around our vast shores and interior, impossible!
Typical Green logic is on show here once again, Europe hasn't got enough power today, how will they increase generation and distribution 200 to 300% to power all these hugely power-consuming cars and trucks in the next ten years?

"Dinosaurs" Xyz?, try REALISTS!

-- Edited by vince56 on Friday 17th of February 2023 10:16:15 AM

Great reply Vince,

What is interesting, being a realist - the average household uses about 40 kWh of electricity per day. I believe it takes between 35 - 50 kWh of power to to fully charge an electrics vehicle.

On very hot days there are certain states that struggle supplying enough power to households because of increased power usage (aircons). You even hear of requests for people to minimise there electricity use at these times.

I can see the headlines, Consumers asked to not charge their electric vehicles today

Im yet to see how we are going to produce enough power for our ever increasing population

-- Edited by shakey55 on Sunday 19th of February 2023 04:39:22 AM

Cuppa · Guru

shakey55 wrote:
What is interesting, being a realist - the average household uses about 40 kWh of electricity per day. I believe it takes between 35 - 50 kWh of power to to fully charge an electrics vehicle.

On very hot days there are certain states that struggle supplying enough power to households because of increased power usage (aircons). You even hear of requests for people to minimise there electricity use at these times.

I can see the headlines, Consumers asked to not charge their electric vehicles today
Im yet to see how we are going to produce enough power for our ever increasing population

-- Edited by shakey55 on Sunday 19th of February 2023 04:39:22 AM

Shakey I believe your average consumption figure of about 40kw per day is higher than most. The 4 categories in this article by Red Energy suggests the average varies from a low of 7Kw per day to around 41kw per day. I would suggest that the actual average consumption taking all households into account would be significantly less than 40kw per day.

https://www.redenergy.com.au/living-energy/smart-homes/how-much-is-the-average-electricity-bill-in-australia

This average will of course rise significantly when EV's become the the norm.

The argument that we cannot produce sufficient power to meet this need is I believe unsupportable, because it relies upon using current power generation methods as proof. Current power generation methods are controlled primarily by market returns & have significant lag times between use & generation. ie. they need to predict what usage will be ahead of time, but if they increase production & usage doesn't match what they have predicted their profits fall, & conversely if they under estimate there is insufficient to go around.

With sustainable non fossil fuel generation the sources of power are cost free (wind/solar/wave/hydro) only the 'managing' infrastucture has costs, & those are lower than the infrastructure costs of coal, gas (or nuclear).

We are in a time of change/of changeover. It is inevitable that things wont run seamlessly & smoothly during such a period, particularly when vested interests call the shots. Move forward to when the transition to sustainable energy is complete & it will be a very different story.

The key to the transition is to minimise disruption & balance it with the changing demand. This has never been done before & to expect it to happen without any disruption is, I suggest, unrealistic, but I also suggest that it remains important to be looking forward & not just at the present.

Cassie63 · Senior Member

So when is Australia going to start building new power stations to sustain the future growth of EV technology, solar and wind wont cut it. Let alone there is no large scale recycling of old solar panels and wind turbine blades. All goes to landfill.

Cuppa · Guru

Cassie63 wrote:
So when is Australia going to start building new power stations to sustain the future growth of EV technology, solar and wind wont cut it. Let alone there is no large scale recycling of old solar panels and wind turbine blades. All goes to landfill.

They already are, there are new sustainable 'power stations' being built all the time. We need more & faster. Why they arent being built faster has much to do with the influence of the fossil fuel industry I believe.

The commentary that sustainable power sources 'won't cut it' is a popular one, but evidence to support that is lacking. What is also lacking perhaps is the commitment to making it happen, but that is a political problem, not a technology problem. At the moment there is still more talk than action. Half hearted approaches used as ammunition by those resisting the change. Politicians walking a very narrow path trying to keep everyone happy, but effectively keeping no one happy & achieving not enough or too much change depending on where you stand. I think they need to show bold leadership.

No technology is perfect. All has it's costs. The current reliance upon fossil fuels has the highest cost of all. Recyclable turbine blades (as they should be) are already in the pipeline I believe. Yes we need to recycle solar panels, & I see no reason why that won't eventuate once it becomes economically viable. These things require economy of scale which we are getting closer to all the time.

Many of the current problems with the transition to a sustainable power system has to do with it's critics who argue loudly for no change.

Really any problems we have are related to timing & a reluctance to move away from the current planet killing generation methods, including denial that they are doing harm.

-- Edited by Cuppa on Sunday 19th of February 2023 02:30:41 PM

Cassie63 · Senior Member

Lets hope Im wrong and sustainable power Stations are viable option for future needs. However sustainable power stations are just part of the solution not the be all end all.

Cuppa · Guru

Cassie63 wrote:
Lets hope Im wrong and sustainable power Stations are viable option for future needs. However sustainable power stations are just part of the solution not the be all end all.

Hardest thing to change is thinking. Crack a significant part of the jigsaw & other pieces start to fall into place.