Correct maximum tow ball weight for new R53 Nissan Pathfinder.

Bulldozer · Senior Member

Correct maximum tow ball weight for new R53 Nissan Pathfinder.

yobarr · Guru

Bulldozer wrote:
I have just bought a new Pathfinder, and I must say its fantastic, tows great, ticks all my boxes. will be used for towing and non towing duties. I looked under the tow bar the other day and to my surprise the plate thats welded onto the tow bar, just behind the spare wheel has the max tow ball weight at 200kg. Maximum towing is 2700kg. All other imfo from door pillow stickers to hand book and other advertising stuff is listed at being TBW 270kg and 2700kg max towing. It doesn't worry me that much as my Adria van TB weight is 120kg and ATM is 2000kg. But if I wanted to buy another van one day it could affect what I buy. So what label is correct?

Perhaps not genuine towbar as normally max towball weight is 270kg. Not sure if Nissan still has a sliding scale where your car's allowable GVM reduces as towball weight increases. Bit busy now but can do research later if needed.Cheers

Bulldozer · Senior Member

Thanks yobarr, Im sure its genuine, fitted from new by Nissan, probably a HR tow bar , cant be sure though. It's what I stipulated to Nissan dealer. Had to be genuine to get 2700kg towing capacity.

JackoFJR · Senior Member

There is no sliding scale

yobarr · Guru

JackoFJR wrote:
There is no sliding scale

Could you please advise when the sliding scale was abolished? Thanks.

yobarr · Guru

Bulldozer wrote:
Thanks yobarr, Im sure its genuine, fitted from new by Nissan, probably a HR tow bar , cant be sure though. It's what I stipulated to Nissan dealer. Had to be genuine to get 2700kg towing capacity.

Perhaps you could ask your Nissan dealer to explain why your car. which has a claimed factory towball weight of 270kg, now has only a 200kg limit?

Good luck! Cheers

Cube · Member

JackoFJR wrote:
There is no sliding scale

It's possible 'yobarr's scale' is referencing a tow ball weight does play a part in a cars GVM. What ever the TB weight is, it comes of GVM. Every one that has half a brain knows this.

IMO 'Sliding scale' is an open ended term to make one sound a tad smarter than another.

yobarr · Guru

Cube wrote:
JackoFJR wrote:
There is no sliding scale
It's possible 'yobarr's scale' is referencing a tow ball weight does play a part in a cars GVM. What ever the TB weight is, it comes of GVM. Every one that has half a brain knows this.
IMO 'Sliding scale' is an open ended term to make one sound a tad smarter than another.

Again we have a disparaging comment from someone who clearly has little understanding of the subject. It is obvious to "Every one that has half a brain" that TB weight is included in a vehicle's GVM, but Nissans also have a further severe reduction in GVM as TB weight increased, well beyond actual TB weight.

The second of the charts below clearly shows what I have referred to as the 'Sliding scale' for Nissan Navara GVM. This chart is for the 2020 Navara, but I am unaware of any changes since. Perhaps the Pathfinder has similar limitations to those of both the Navara and earlier Y62s Patrols?

Just trying to make OP aware of possible limitations, and happy to be corrected.

It can clearly be seen that, on the Navara, a 300kg towball weight results in a loss of 410kg from the car's GVM, with various TB weights giving different GVMs, hence what I simply referred to as a "Sliding scale".

If I get time tomorrow I will further research the Pathfinder, but I have at least made the OP aware of possible limitations. Perhaps Nissan have already remedied the problem? Cheers

LATER!

P.S Just found figures for Pathfinder, albeit an R52, but possibly relevant? It clearly can be seen that a TB weight of 200kg reduces GVM by 300kg. . NOT GOOD!

-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 2nd of March 2023 10:20:46 AM

Radar · Guru

Yes we own a Nissan Navara with a sliding scale clearly marked on the door pillar and a read of the driver's manual makes it even clearer.

Our Navara is a 2014 model with a towing capacity of 3000kg which when towing a pig style trailer is not obtainable. Our limit is around 2.750 tonnes with 270 kilograms on the towball.

The sliding scale tells us we need to be about a 100kgs under our gross vehicle mass which is where we are with maximum weight on the drive axle of 1740 kgs.

I thought Nissan were very clever in supplying that information for people to tow large pig style trailers.

Hope that is reasonable clear.

JackoFJR · Senior Member

It clearly says the table is a " GUIDE ONLY " do not exceed max rear axle load , it's been discussed at length on the Y62 forums , it's supposed to be a guide to help owners not exceed the max rear axle weight , all it really dose is confuse people .

-- Edited by JackoFJR on Thursday 2nd of March 2023 09:01:23 AM

yobarr · Guru

JackoFJR wrote:
It clearly says the table is a " GUIDE ONLY " do not exceed max rear axle load , it's been discussed at length on the Y62 forums , it's supposed to be a guide to help owners not exceed the max rear axle weight , all it really dose is confuse people .

Still it is the 'sliding scale' that I mentioned earlier, I'm sure you'd agree? "There is no sliding scale" you said earlier.

With the stupidly low rear axle ratings on these cars it is important that as much help as possible is available to owners, particularly when Nissan recommends that no WDH be fitted with their towbar. "Confuse people" you say when it is so simple it's almost embarrassing. Cheers

yobarr · Guru

Radar wrote:
Yes we own a Nissan Navara with a sliding scale clearly marked on the door pillar and a read of the driver's manual makes it even clearer.
Our Navara is a 2014 model with a towing capacity of 3000kg which when towing a pig style trailer is not obtainable. Our limit is around 2.750 tonnes with 270 kilograms on the towball.
The sliding scale tells us we need to be about a 100kgs under our gross vehicle mass which is where we are with maximum weight on the drive axle of 1740 kgs.
I thought Nissan were very clever in supplying that information for people to tow large pig style trailers.
Hope that is reasonable clear.

Great post Ralph, and nice that you realise that maximum towing capacity with PIG trailer is 2.75 ton. Low rear axle capacity of tow vehicles always is the problem, but you are one of few who realise that. Well done. Cheers

P.S Perhaps this is a solution? Problem is many people can't reverse a Pig trailer, let alone a Dog trailer.

Bulldozer · Senior Member

I do understand the sliding scale thingy, but what I find a little strange is all the stickers on the door frame, hand book ect ect is 270kg max tow ball weight. and the plate welded on the tow bar, which I might add you have to take the spare tyre out to get a clear view of it, is 200kg max tow ball weight. A little confusing thats all. The main thing is we have an gcm all up weight of car and van about 4400kg 120-140kg tow ball weight.

Bill B · Guru

Have you discussed the matter with your dealer and/or Nissan ?

yobarr · Guru

Bill B wrote:
Have you discussed the matter with your dealer and/or Nissan?

Good idea Bill! Great minds must think alike as this is exactly what I suggested in my post at 5.09pm on March 1st. Cheers

JackoFJR · Senior Member

yobarr wrote:
JackoFJR wrote:
It clearly says the table is a " GUIDE ONLY " do not exceed max rear axle load , it's been discussed at length on the Y62 forums , it's supposed to be a guide to help owners not exceed the max rear axle weight , all it really dose is confuse people .
Still it is the 'sliding scale' that I mentioned earlier, I'm sure you'd agree? "There is no sliding scale" you said earlier.
With the stupidly low rear axle ratings on these cars it is important that as much help as possible is available to owners, particularly when Nissan recommends that no WDH be fitted with their towbar. "Confuse people" you say when it is so simple it's almost embarrassing. Cheers

It's the same for all cars the TBW is part of the GVM that you can't exceed or the rear axle max and yes it really is that simple . My Y62 has that sticker in the door and manual , I can have a TBW of 350Kg providing I don't exceed GVM or rear axle max , to have a 350Kg TBW I would almost have to have a completely stock car and nothing much in the rear not to exceed rear axle weight , believe me that sticker has caused a lot of confusion for some , the latest Y62 the sticker has been removed but the chassis , suspension is the same as all other Y62's , except for the no longer available Stl model

JackoFJR · Senior Member

yobarr wrote:
Bill B wrote:
Have you discussed the matter with your dealer and/or Nissan?
Good idea Bill! Great minds must think alike as this is exactly what I suggested in my post at 5.09pm on March 1st. Cheers

yobar , I did post a copy of a reply from Nissan tech stating the sticker is just a guide and a TBW of 350kg is ok for my S4 Patrol providing I don't exceed GVM or rear axle weight of 2030Kg but if I remember correctly you claimed the copy I posted was a fake .

-- Edited by JackoFJR on Thursday 2nd of March 2023 01:48:33 PM

Are We Lost · Guru

JackoFJR wrote:
It's the same for all cars .....

No it isn't. I think you are misunderstanding the intent of the sticker. Putting aside the fact that it is a guide, it shows that your GVM (which includes towball load) must be reduced the heavier that towball load.

Looking at the first sticker for an R52 as an example, specs show a GVM of 2715kg. You plan to put a 200kg towball load onto it. So that means you can load the R52 up to 2515kg, correct?

WRONG. If a van with 200kg towball download is attached, the GVM gets reduced by 300kg. So now, the total it can weigh is 2415kg ....and that includes the 200kg towball weight. So now only be loaded it to 2215kg before being connected.

This makes it virtually impossible to tow such a van because there is only enough capacity above Tare for the driver and a toothbrush.

Bulldozer · Senior Member

Bill B wrote:
Have you discussed the matter with your dealer and/or Nissan ?

Not yet.

JackoFJR · Senior Member

Are We Lost wrote:
JackoFJR wrote:
It's the same for all cars .....
No it isn't. I think you are misunderstanding the intent of the sticker. Putting aside the fact that it is a guide, it shows that your GVM (which includes towball load) must be reduced the heavier that towball load.
Looking at the first sticker for an R52 as an example, specs show a GVM of 2715kg. You plan to put a 200kg towball load onto it. So that means you can load the R52 up to 2515kg, correct?
WRONG. If a van with 200kg towball download is attached, the GVM gets reduced by 300kg. So now, the total it can weigh is 2415kg ....and that includes the 200kg towball weight. So now only be loaded it to 2215kg before being connected.
This makes it virtually impossible to tow such a van because there is only enough capacity above Tare for the driver and a toothbrush.

I don't know about the R52 have you actually asked Nissan Tech department because with the Y62 even with the sticker , it's still legal to have a 350Kg TBW as long as you don't exceed GVM or PAW , just like it says on the sticker after " GUIDE ONLY " it does not say you MUST reduce GVM by any extra amount , I did have a copy of a reply from Nissan Tech don't know if I still have it , I will have to look .

Are We Lost · Guru

While the sticker may only be a guide, if there was an expensive warranty claim, Nissan may want to use exceeding their recommendations as justification not to cover the claim. Potentially the same for insurance.

Actually, I just had a browse of the Nissan site looking for specs. For the current model Pathfinder it shows 2700kg towing capacity but with a note:

Towing capacity is subject to towbar/towball capacity and is based on the fitment of a Genuine Nissan towbar. Towing capacity figure described is a maximum figure. Actual towing capacity depends on the laden mass of the vehicle, driving conditions, fitment of any accessories or towing equipment limitations including the maximum towball download. The maximum towball download for this vehicle is 270kg.

I could not find where it provided the detail for that disclaimer. But from my reading it seems to be more than a guideline.

To the OP, I would certainly be wanting the dealer to provide what the specs show .... a towbar capable of 270kg towball load with approval sticker to suit.

-- Edited by Are We Lost on Thursday 2nd of March 2023 12:18:56 PM

jegog · Senior Member

I wonder if the 270kg specified on the door frame is the theoretically calculated weight for the car as is, that is, without the tow bar fitted. That would require the weight of the tow bar to be removed from the specified maximum tow ball weight.
Tow bar 30kg to 40kg. Plus adjustable height tow ball tongue with WDH and a rating of 200kg is believable.
It makes sense to me for the weights of everything needed to hitch the trailer be included in the vehicle max. tow ball weight.

Gundog · Guru

I know the ainti WDH brigade will spinout from this reply.

the non reccommdation of the use of a WDH or similar pertains to the Genuine Nissan towbar, so that ststement would not apply if an after market towbar ie. Haymen Reece was fitted.

Its bit like my Ranger the genuine HD towbar has a maximum ball weight of 250kg, this is because, the automatic gearbox version is limited to 2500kg towing capicity with 250kg TBW, where the manual gearbox version is 3000kg with 250kg TBW. this is clearly stated on the towbar compliance plate and in the owners manual. however a HR HD towbar shows the for the manual 300/3000kg and the auto 250/2500kg.

Are We Lost · Guru

Gundog wrote:
Its bit like my Ranger the genuine HD towbar has a maximum ball weight of 250kg ......

This must be an older model is it? My automatic 2018 Ford Ranger has factory fitted towbar and is rated for 350kg. 3500kg towing capacity (in theory anyway).

Gundog · Guru

Are We Lost wrote:
Gundog wrote:
Its bit like my Ranger the genuine HD towbar has a maximum ball weight of 250kg ......
This must be an older model is it? My automatic 2018 Ford Ranger has factory fitted towbar and is rated for 350kg. 3500kg towing capacity (in theory anyway).

Yes its a 2010 PK

Ben Taxyl · Member

Bulldozer wrote:
I have just bought a new Pathfinder, and I must say its fantastic, tows great, ticks all my boxes. will be used for towing and non towing duties. I looked under the tow bar the other day and to my surprise the plate thats welded onto the tow bar, just behind the spare wheel has the max tow ball weight at 200kg. Maximum towing is 2700kg. All other imfo from door pillow stickers to hand book and other advertising stuff is listed at being TBW 270kg and 2700kg max towing. It doesn't worry me that much as my Adria van TB weight is 120kg and ATM is 2000kg. But if I wanted to buy another van one day it could affect what I buy. So what label is correct?

Hi Bulldozer.

Have just returned home from a trip and saw your post. From what I understand, you are limited to the lowest towball rating listed on the vehicle or the towbar. As it is, you can not exceed 200kg regardless of what is printed in the manual. My Y61 Patrol has a 3500kg capacity towbar but is limited to 3200 tow capacity by Nissan sticker on door. The same sticker also limits download to 200kg. Nissan don't seem to give much credence to the 10 percent idea. There is no sliding scale thingo on my Patrol.

Cheers,Ben.

yobarr · Guru

Ben Taxyl wrote:
Bulldozer wrote:
I have just bought a new Pathfinder, and I must say its fantastic, tows great, ticks all my boxes. will be used for towing and non towing duties. I looked under the tow bar the other day and to my surprise the plate thats welded onto the tow bar, just behind the spare wheel has the max tow ball weight at 200kg. Maximum towing is 2700kg. All other imfo from door pillow stickers to hand book and other advertising stuff is listed at being TBW 270kg and 2700kg max towing. It doesn't worry me that much as my Adria van TB weight is 120kg and ATM is 2000kg. But if I wanted to buy another van one day it could affect what I buy. So what label is correct?
Hi Bulldozer.
Have just returned home from a trip and saw your post. From what I understand, you are limited to the lowest towball rating listed on the vehicle or the towbar. As it is, you can not exceed 200kg regardless of what is printed in the manual. My Y61 Patrol has a 3500kg capacity towbar but is limited to 3200 tow capacity by Nissan sticker on door. The same sticker also limits download to 200kg. Nissan don't seem to give much credence to the 10 percent idea. There is no sliding scale thingo on my Patrol.
Cheers,Ben.

Welcome to the forum, Ben. What you post is correct, but Nissan's weights were all over the place "way back". What year is your car? Later, maybe tomorrow, I will explain how it all works, and how the "sliding scale" is intended to help people who don't have a good understanding of weights. Important that we have year of manufacture of your car. Cheers

Bulldozer · Senior Member

I reckon some one has made a mistake, maybe the tow bar manufacture. Because all the official stickers on the door pillow, drivers hand book, advertising literature, says 270 kg! And the plate tacked on the back of the tow bar is hard to read, you have to take the spare tyre out to read it. I wonder in a court of law who would be deemed correct if something nasty happened. And how many owners would get down and go to the trouble of taking the spare out just to see if there was a hard to read plate tacked on the tow bar. I would say not many! I am going to contact Nissan and see what they say.

-- Edited by Bulldozer on Wednesday 29th of March 2023 07:03:51 PM

yobarr · Guru

Bulldozer wrote:
I reckon some one has made a mistake, maybe the tow bar manufacture. Because all the official stickers on the door pillow, drivers hand book, advertising literature, says 270 kg! And the plate tacked on the back of the tow bar is hard to read, you have to take the spare tyre out to read it. I wonder in a court of law who would be deemed correct if something nasty happened. And how many owners would get down and go to the trouble of taking the spare out just to see if there was a hard to read plate tacked on the tow bar. I would say not many! I am going to contact Nissan and see what they say.

Just supply year of manufacture, model, engine etc and I will try to help you. Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 29th of March 2023 08:04:20 PM

Bulldozer · Senior Member

yobarr wrote:
Bulldozer wrote:
I reckon some one has made a mistake, maybe the tow bar manufacture. Because all the official stickers on the door pillow, drivers hand book, advertising literature, says 270 kg! And the plate tacked on the back of the tow bar is hard to read, you have to take the spare tyre out to read it. I wonder in a court of law who would be deemed correct if something nasty happened. And how many owners would get down and go to the trouble of taking the spare out just to see if there was a hard to read plate tacked on the tow bar. I would say not many! I am going to contact Nissan and see what they say.
Just supply year of manufacture, model, engine etc and I will try to help you. Cheers

Year, 2022. Model, Nissan Pathfinder, R53 STL. Engine 3.5 V6 petrol. 4WD. ( that what the badge says on the back ) Thanks yobarr.

-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 29th of March 2023 08:04:20 PM

-- Edited by Bulldozer on Wednesday 29th of March 2023 09:13:55 PM