Farmhouse wrote:

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I am surprised this post has not triggered a few comments at the least.

I do not know who Cindy is and I have searched and cannot find her past post.

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 One of the more salent points is that the vehicle must have a full ladder-chassis. None of these dreamer's machines with monocoque construction and the like. Hope this helps but all relevant information is easily found. Cheers

Thanks RickJ and vobarr, this is what I was looking for.

Looks like the re rating is only applicable to light vehicles such as utes and light trucks.



Unfortunately our Mux misses out on the upgrade. Pedders are researching atm and will give me an answer soon.


Thanks for the links.

yobarr wrote:

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Farmhouse wrote:

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Thanks RickJ and vobarr, this is what I was looking for.

Looks like the re rating is only applicable to light vehicles such as utes and light trucks.

Unfortunately our Mux misses out on the upgrade. Pedders are researching  ATM and will give me an answer soon.

Thanks for the links.

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 Just a bit of advice. Wonder what you mean when you say that Pedders are "researching ATM" as ATM refers to trailers/caravans.

Recent model MUXs have a tow rating of 3500kg, but no one in their right mind would even dream of hooking up a 3500kg PIG trailer to an MUX.

Don't have exact figures on me at moment, but. seem to recall that an MUX is out of its depth towing much more than 2800kg as a PIG trailer.  

Unfortunately the vast majority of nembers here have NO idea how tow ratings are calculated. 3500kg behind an MUX?

Tell'em they're dreamin'. Cheers

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  "Tow Ratings " by Manufacturers refer to "Towing" (or "pulling" in simple terms)  ......not to "Carrying some of the load and Towing the rest" (as per a Pig Trailer/Caravan) there is a BIG difference.

yobarr ATM also short for AT THE MOMENT sorry for the confusion.

Also our Mux is my15 so tow capacity is 3000kg.

With our GVM upgrade and air bags fitted I have no problem towing 3000kg.

Slotted rotars up front with Kevlar pads will also stop our setup.

Also tow ratings refer to tow bar towing capacity not vehicle towing capacity. 

Cheers

-- Edited by Farmhouse on Thursday 23rd of March 2023 06:14:19 PM

-- Edited by Farmhouse on Thursday 23rd of March 2023 06:15:26 PM

-- Edited by Farmhouse on Thursday 23rd of March 2023 06:17:46 PM

Farmhouse wrote:

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yobarr ATM also short for AT THE MOMENT sorry for the confusion.

Also our Mux is my15 so tow capacity is 3000kg.

With our GVM upgrade and air bags fitted I have no problem towing 3000kg.

Slotted rotars up front with Kevlar pads will also stop our setup.

Also tow ratings refer to tow bar towing capacity not vehicle towing capacity. 

Cheers

 Oh dear Glenn, you are terribly confused. Tow ratings refer to the legal, but not necessarily safe, limit of the vehicle's ability to tow a trailer. It is generally accepted, and simple physics, that the towball weight should be at least 10% of the towed vehicle's ATM. This means that if your MUX is towing a 3000kg ATM van, your towball weight should be at least 300kg.. Because of your 1075mm TBO ( towball overhang, or distance from rear axle to hitch point) the actual weight applied to your car's rear is around 400kg (+/-) . Your car has a rear axle weight at TARE of at least 1080kg, so applying 400kg to the rear axle increases that weight to 1480kg. Rear axle capacity is only 1600kg, but tare is weight of the car with NO driver,     NO passengers, NO luggage, NO spares, NO weight of actual towing structure, so NO HOPE. Your GVM upgrade, as always, is virtually a waste of money because your rear axle carrying capacity increases to only 1650kg. A HUGE 50kg! Why bother? However, if you do have that GVM upgrade you can now safely tow your 3000kg ATM van, ONLY assuming GCM upgrade which I doubt you'd have? Could you please supply all figures from your GVM upgrade so that I can give advice? Cheers

yobarr wrote:

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Farmhouse wrote:

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yobarr ATM also short for AT THE MOMENT sorry for the confusion.

Also our Mux is my15 so tow capacity is 3000kg.

With our GVM upgrade and air bags fitted I have no problem towing 3000kg.

Slotted rotars up front with Kevlar pads will also stop our setup.

Also tow ratings refer to tow bar towing capacity not vehicle towing capacity. 

Cheers

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 Oh dear Glenn, you are terribly confused. Tow ratings refer to the legal, but not necessarily safe, limit of the vehicle's ability to tow a trailer. It is generally accepted, and simple physics, that the towball weight should be at least 10% of the towed vehicle's ATM. This means that if your MUX is towing a 3000kg ATM van, your towball weight should be at least 300kg.. Because of your 1075mm TBO ( towball overhang, or distance from rear axle to hitch point) the actual weight applied to your car's rear is around 400kg (+/-) . Your car has a rear axle weight at TARE of at least 1080kg, so applying 400kg to the rear axle increases that weight to 1480kg. Rear axle capacity is only 1600kg, but tare is weight of the car with NO driver,     NO passengers, NO luggage, NO spares, NO weight of actual towing structure, so NO HOPE. Your GVM upgrade, as always, is virtually a waste of money because your rear axle carrying capacity increases to only 1650kg. A HUGE 50kg! Why bother? However, if you do have that GVM upgrade you can now safely tow your 3000kg ATM van, ONLY assuming GCM upgrade which I doubt you'd have? Could you please supply all figures from your GVM upgrade so that I can give advice? Cheers

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 My dear yobarr, no, thats condescending so I would not use that term.

yobarr  I am not confused at all, nowhere did I mention TBW ( tow ball weight) You are right with regards max GVM does not mean that the load is safe to tow. I have a certified QLD certified GVM rateing of 3200 kg for the Mux. Nowhere did I mention that the GCM or the towing capacity was increased. See original post and my following post. In Queensland youcan now, on some light trucks increase the vehicle component of the GCM. This can not be done on a Mux because the frame is not ladder like built, it states that quite clearly. Here is another FACT, no passenger vehicle has ever been fined for overloading under the AUSTRALAN road rules traffic act in any state ever.

I have been doing a lot of research on vehicle weights and regulations and I still do not have the right answers to all.

I am very confident that the setup on our Mux will tow, with care our new van when it arrives. I have spent a lot of time and money on achieving the tow vehicle I drive to achieve the best result. Yes it will struggle on hills like most do, but it will suit me just fine. I know you like a bit of banter so I hope I have succeeded with my quest.

Cheer

Glenn 

Last comment from myself.

I have installed in the rear of the Mux Titan two drawer system with a Kings fridge drawer on top.

We did this so we can regulate and control our weight in the vehicle. This is so we can, if we choose to max the van out at 3000kg.

We. packed the fridge and the drawers with exactly(?)what we will carry with the van connected.

We then filled the vehicle with fuel, 2 persons, one dog etc etc. and went over a weighbridge.

We guessed the TBW at 260kg. 

The GVM came in at 2730, so just snuck under the rateing of 2750. GCM is 5750, so we need some treeking, but close.

We can under Australian design road regulations have a GVM of 3200 kg, the new Certified GVM.

However we will never do that weight, due to the safety factor. We will stick to under 2700kg.

So 

Farmhouse wrote:

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Safety is very important to me also, as it should be.

My source is very accurate,  I would think this person would without doubt the best informed, best knowledge, most qualified person in Australia.

He travels world wide to assist big vehicle builders with warranty claims, companies like Toyota, Nissan, Ford, GMC, you name them and he has advised or assisted in court cases all over the world.

Will I name him, no I will not. Believe me this guy knows his stuff.

Seven sevens in aero naughtacal (I cant even spell it) engineering is not a bad start.

Do I bother him with this weight stuff? Not very often, but when I do he always knows his trade.

 

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 Unless he can can provide figures to support his assertion I am happy to say he's wrong. You no doubt have great faith in this chap's "advice", but this is LaLa land stuff. It's impossible to help people who refuse to learn. Cheers

P.S Nautical. What does seven sevens mean? Is it relevant to this discussion? I have no degrees relevant to this discussion, but I have  lots of experience with weights. Experience always  beats theory. 

Farmhouse wrote:

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Honestly mate Your arrogance is outstanding. Seven. Sevens is the highest mark you can achieve.

How about you show me someone who has been fined for overloading a passenger car car in Australia, I am sure you can scratch one up.

Another thing, feel free to admit you are wrong at least once, hell mate I do it every day, good for the soul.

Sorry admin, but fair dinkum enough is enough.

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 When outlandish unsupported statements are made regarding weights always I will respond. Try this story for starters. No doubt there are dozens - yes dozens - of other cases. Car was Prado, from memory? Cheers.

P.S Yes, there once was a time when, briefly, I thought that I was wrong, but I was mistaken. 

Farmhouse wrote:

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Nah surely you can do better then this.

What vehicle was it and was he charged for overloading the vehicle?

This is turning into some real fun here, hope we have an audience.

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 Could I respectfully suggest that you give up? You're clearly way out of your depth posting about stuff that you have  little understanding of. Instead  of ignoring help you might be better to heed good advice from those of us who know what we're talking about. Cheers

Farmhouse wrote:

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Sorry mate, very sad story. I hope the family have moved on after this horrible accident.

You have do some more research, still no passenger vehicle has been fined or charged with a OVERLOADED vehicle in Australia.


It is fine to concede, no one really cares.

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Hmmm. And you reckon that a Prado  is not a passenger vehicle? Surely having 5 seats, at least, would qualify this vehicle as such?

As for the family "moving on" did you not notice that there is no family left? This chap killed his wife and her son because  he chose to overload his vehicle, despite him being a long- distance truck driver who perhaps should have known better?

Girlfriends are not necessarily part of "family" and don't count. Family gone. Dead.

Did you not notice that the van was overloaded by 800kg ? 

Finally, I have no requirement to "concede" as I have provided only indesputable facts. Grow up. Cheers