Sometimes I wonder where the forum is heading

Southern Cruizer · Guru

Sometimes I wonder where the forum is heading

TheHeaths · Guru

A well considered and presented post SC.

I second your comments and hope the forum can return to the place it was a number of years ago. As you say, I see it more and more in the Social, or perhaps Anti Social media.

Interesting the reports from those who just drop in for a look. Thats how I joined a number of years ago. Im not sure I would bother now.

landy · Guru

Agree 100% , not a good look to prospective members.

Are We Lost · Guru

Finding a good balance is not easy. I agree there is too much bickering and denigration of others going on here. But I still think threads are closed too often rather than dealing with those who inflame discussions to the point that they become abusive.

Recently I have been taking note of the number of threads I look at on here compared to another popular forum. In most cases this site wins, despite a smaller population of members. So, for me it has more interest. Perhaps part of it is because those who have strong opinions have been stifled more on the other forum, and it has become sanitised at the expense of freedom of speech.

Members with a lot of experience are needed to provide the benefit of wisdom to newbies and those who need help with a particular issue. But when your need for assistance is rare, what keeps you coming back? I liken it to buying magazines .... when starting out we devour the contents with enthusiasm, but as we gain experience the magazines are less of a draw because it is the same regurgitation over and over. The same applies with a forum. Something more is needed to keep experienced people and their wealth of knowledge coming back.

If you can't talk about what interests you, why bother. So, my suggestion is to deal with those who inflame discussions, thus enabling those discussions to continue.

-- Edited by Are We Lost on Tuesday 18th of April 2023 11:30:53 PM

shakey55 · Senior Member

Agree, but I just turn off (most of the time) when reading some of the argumentative comments.

I find that the vast majority of people, comments and assistance here is exactly what I require.

Cheers n Beers everyone

Dougwe · Chief one feather

I tend to agree with you SC. I got a lot out of the GN Forum many moons back and it saved my sanity a few times as Cindy would know.

Sadly, though, what you say is correct. I too promoted this place a lot, a real lot actually and in the 'good old days' many moons back now, many joined up.

Sadly, again, many of those and others have left for reasons you mention. Many of those were valuable and knowledgeable members. I don't promote the forum anymore, in fact, I vary really talk about it to new people I meet in my travels. I am surprised there hasn't been a bigger response to your post and would have thought one particular member would have weighed into the topic by now but there ya go, I can be mistaken at times. I am an old Indian Chief Afterall.

That all said. I would like to think that in time and with some action taken things will improve and hopefully one day in the not-too-distant future this place will get back to what it once was.

Keep Safe on the roads and out there everyone.

RickJ · Senior Member

To become accustomed to this forum I went way back in its posting history and read how it all worked. I suggest anyone with an interest in how it has operated, do the same.

There was and still is, some interesting dynamics but having said that it is also considered bad etiquette for members to discuss the running of a forum on that very forum.

Social media in forum form is dying. Social media are subject to the *instant* comment which is what people want.
Not many want an answer that has been loaded with *mother* statements involving upward of 500 words.
Actual surveys show that many of the younger contributors just switch off.

The OP had three forums but they have gone now. ???

Forums are only about members until the first sponsor dollar is taken.
Arguably the best forum that many of us have read or participated is the LCOOL FORUM. So far, this forum has not been sponsored.

Unfortunately, moderators are human on these forums and this in itself will control who stays and whose comments are *acceptable* and whose arent.

It is a shame at times that forums lose some knowledgeable contributors because those members are consistently berated by other members who may be threatened by their comments and their presence.

Enjoy it on here as with many others, it wont last forever.
We have a FB site and from what I have seen it attracts thousands and has some interesting topics available to FB participants.

Bill B · Guru

The main problem with this forum is it relies on members reporting posts before any form of moderation is taken.

Magnarc · Guru

Well said Graham. Over the past couple of years I have considered leaving numerous times. It's a pity that some folks can't have a respectful discussion about their differences without resorting to personal attacks some of which, have been particularly virulent. Regarding the sudden departure of some members whether or not they deserved to be deleted, surely a warning first before the chop?

FMC · Veteran Member

I agree

Grumpytoo · Senior Member

I am in agreement with the original posters thoughts. I won't comment on any post unless I have knowledge of the subject. The posting of a lot of topics have little to do with Grey Nomading or caravaning and are designed to create division.

Glenn

deverall11 · Guru

Good post SC. The behaviour of some on this forum is a reflection of how some behave in shops
and similar places. Where we live 9 times out of 10 you will find a 'senior' pushing to the
front of a queue, speeding down the road, just to illustrate some example of behaviour.
When called out, the return spray involves the feeling of a sense of entitlement.
'I've been around for x number of years, if I want to jump to the front of the queue I can
because I am older then you. I can speed if I want to and are treated unfairly when I receive
a speed camera fine because I was NOT speeding.' The list goes on. Never ceases to amaze me
why they are in such a hurry.
Some on here think, rightly so in some instances, that they know it all. The problem here is that
technology has moved on but their thinking has not. Also some who are looking for an answer
to a question asked, refuse to accept the 'correct' reply until the one 'they' want comes up.
Hence the bun fight.

deverall11 · Guru

Grumpytoo wrote:
I am in agreement with the original posters thoughts. I won't comment on any post unless I have knowledge of the subject. The posting of a lot of topics have little to do with Grey Nomading or caravaning and are designed to create division.

Glenn

X2. Wish a few more would do that instead of feeling the absolute urge to reply just for the sake of it.

Cuppa · Guru

I agree - it is not a good look for new & prospective members. The reputation of this forum community is poor.

I also agree with AWL about more than the 'meat & potatoes' being needed to retain experienced people. Responsible & respectful spiciness is to be encouraged.

Public discourse in our society has increasingly been disrupted by polemics in recent times, where in place of rational & respectful debate we see attacks not just on the beliefs of others, but upon those who express them. This has become more commonplace to the extent that for some attacking & undermining of the 'opposition' ('them & us' instead of just 'us who all have differing views & perspectives') has become normalised.

The result widely in society, led by social media is mirrored very much in this forum in the form of name calling, personal attack & expectation of being personally attacked.

One view is that without all the 'disputes' that the forum would become 'sanitised' & boring'. It is a possibility to be avoided.

I suggest that the end result of the style of disrespectful arguments common in this community will lead to 'boring & unpalatable' to the majority. Either the result of stricter rules being imposed & policed by an understandably reluctant forum admin, or by disaffected members leaving, with the remaining smaller group continuing to share the disrespectful views which both drove previous members away, & which discourage others from joining. This will never result in a healthy (ie actively participating) broader thinking membership.

For any forum community healthy & robust discourse is needed to retain the interest of experienced members, but it is how that is handled which determines whether it is healthy & not just robust. That I believe is the balance that this forum community needs to pay attention to. It is the responsibility of every member who posts. Moderation is a 'fallback position' & should, I believe, have a minor role in 'policing the rules' & a major role in educating members to self moderate.

-- Edited by Cuppa on Wednesday 19th of April 2023 09:48:25 AM

msg · Guru

I disagree Cuppa. Its not about "respectful discussion and healthy and robust discourse" as much as being about a caring community relating their travelling exploits to other like minded people. Telling others about their WOW moments. Being available with helpful advice and perhaps even a helping hand should someone need it.

Its not about being the most knowledgeable, the cleverest or the wittiest, which seems to be the current atmosphere.

It's about making friends on line and perhaps even in real life. I was at the inaugural Greens Lake meeting and I am still in contact with a number of the other attendees.

vanTas · Veteran Member

What some of us fail to recognise is that for any given situation, there is possibly more than one correct answer.

When posing a question, we can sometimes:
a)misinterpret what we see as the problem,
b)forget to include all of the facts,
c)not use the correct terminology.

Then those that answer:
a) Sometimes fail to really read the question as put,
b) jump to conclusions as to to what the problem realy is,
c) assume that the OP has an understanding of their answer.

Over time technology creeps, even if there are no big advances. Techniques evolve, materials change, new tools are developed and our understanding of things moves on.
Then comes the realm of "personal preference". How Joe Blo wants something done could well be the opposite of how Fred N. sees it.

In the workforce one should never criticizie the individual, but rather rate their performance.
So similarly, on here we should only give well meaning advice and let the OP assess the info given as to its suitability for their given circumstances.

What applied in one field of industry does not always fit in another. The matter/facts/procedures used may be of interest. They may even be helpful. But they cannot be said to be the absolute answer to what arises in another field/trade/skills area.

So, should a contibutor get a bit intense in their answer there should be a moderator comment made. i.e. A warning.
If the "problem" persists, then a forced holiday w.r.t. that topic.
Following that there can be a barring across all topics for a period of time. Then permenancy.

I have seen where a discussion has got out of hand, yet hidden in the torrents there are snippets of worthwhile information.

Sometimes we need to address the problem, rather than the person. After all- there can be more than one person's problem solved through a single answer.

Cuppa · Guru

msg, I agree with all that you say being essentials. They are the 'meat & potatoes' I mentioned.

I referred several times to 'forum community' & not just to forum. This is reference to the aspects of the forum which, like you, I see as primary reason for it's existence. The cameraderie & the helping, sharing & encouraging.

But I agree with others too, that a bit more than that is needed to retain the experienced & longer term members.

Without the experienced & longer term members, the forum would not have the advice & help on tap, & there would be no forum community.

I would be most surprised if every conversation at Greens Lake has always been restricted to only 'RV Travel' matters.

My wife & I also have many friends made on past forums & subsequently met face to face. A 'family' right around Australia.
We know well how much more a good healthy forum community can provide for it's members compared to the likes of todays more 'instant' social media.

The problems outlined by Southern Cruizer mainly emanate within what I called the 'spiciness' (& occasionally spill over) which although not the forum's primary reason for existing is nevertheless integral to it's retaining the experienced long term members. Whether in the the meat & potatoes or the added spiciness, the most essential extra ingredients are respect & tolerance. Easier it seems face to face than online. But very possible online too. Whilst robust discourse is not an essential if it is healthy robust discourse it is a great sign that those essential ingredients are present.

Webmaster · Guru

Hi everyone,
I appreciate all the feedback. As has been pointed out, some topics seem to bring out personal attacks and comments … especially when the topic veers into politics or government policy. Politics are not allowed on our forum. We have found that these kinds of discussions always cause resentment and bad feelings and it is not the focus of our forum.
It also seems that sometimes personal ‘disagreements’ on various issues spill into other, unrelated topics. I would appreciate if everyone could ensure that their posts are friendly and respectful, whether or not you disagree with someone’s view. Also, please ensure that your post is focused on the topic, rather than on the person who posted.
If anyone has any issues with other members or the forum itself, please do not hesitate to send me a PM.

msg · Guru

vanTas,

"So, should a contibutor get a bit intense in their answer there should be a moderator comment made. i.e. A warning.
If the "problem" persists, then a forced holiday w.r.t. that topic.
Following that there can be a barring across all topics for a period of time. Then permenancy."

Sounds to me like a lot of things happening in life these days. Get someone in authority to decide, install penalties and punishments as the answer to an issue.

How about, tolerance, not saying anything about something you don't like.

Its OK to put up a different view but don't criticize comments from another contributor.

Let the person, who asked the question make their own mind up as to what they will take from the answers.

We are adults, its time in this day and age to temper our actions and speech whether online or in public without asking authority and running to mum and dad to punish a perceived transgression.

Magnarc · Guru

I note that, on the "other" caravan forum there is more than one moderator. This would appear to me to be advantageous. Firstly the work is shared around thus removing a lot of time consumed by one individual, and second, surely it would be better to have more than one opinion on any given problem especially if it involves the contemplated removal of a member?

I do not know if Cindy has helpers, I have never seen any other name except hers, maybe she does have others on hand. Having only been on the "other" forum for a short while I find the atmosphere totally different to this one. Many moons ago the atmosphere on here was also very different. It is a shame that we have to discuss this matter, there really should be no need for a topic like this although I agree with Graham, it had to be raised because it has gone on far too long.

Whenarewethere · Guru

This is the rudest forum I am on.

I don't waste my energy responding to rubbish, or keep it to a single word on the topic if feasible.

Mike Harding · Guru

Just like any other collection of humans the ethos is determined by the boss.

TheHeaths · Guru

Magnarc wrote:
I note that, on the "other" caravan forum there is more than one moderator. This would appear to me to be advantageous. Firstly the work is shared around thus removing a lot of time consumed by one individual, and second, surely it would be better to have more than one opinion on any given problem especially if it involves the contemplated removal of a member?
I do not know if Cindy has helpers, I have never seen any other name except hers, maybe she does have others on hand. Having only been on the "other" forum for a short while I find the atmosphere totally different to this one. Many moons ago the atmosphere on here was also very different. It is a shame that we have to discuss this matter, there really should be no need for a topic like this although I agree with Graham, it had to be raised because it has gone on far too long.

Magnarc,

interesting you say this as when I first joined here in about 2012, the other place had a poor reputation for friendliness or respectful posting, and this place was acknowledged for it relaxed, friendly nature in general. There were the odd posters who were opinionated and bullying (one lead me to take a six month sabbatical) but generally the forum was nice to operate in.

Robust discussion and respectful disagreement is fine. Its when discussion immediately descends to name calling, sarcasm and in cases bullying when a different opinion is expressed that I find ridiculous.

Lets hope it gets back to what is was.

Bill B · Guru

TheHeaths wrote:

Lets hope it gets back to what is was.

Sorry but whilst certain posters are given free reign by forum management it isn't going to happen.

Warren-Pat_01 · Guru

I wasn't going to butt in on this conversation as most has already been said.

What we cannot afford to lose is experience - in technical areas, in general caravanning, in friendships that have been generated. In late 2017 we lost a damn good, experienced bloke - some may or may not agree with me. He was lost because of his often, pig-headed attitude, rubbing up someone who took offence, etc, etc. He rubbed me up the wrong way once but I chose to ignore it & I didn't answer.

In my last job in Telstra, there were two of us for looking after the technical needs of regional & rural Qld - the Sunshine, Gold Coasts & Brisbane had their own people to handle their issues. Often in curly issues with senior management, we would raise issues but we would pass the email to each other first. It was a way of defusing any antagonisms. Yes, I can be a stirrer, can get upset quickly & say the wrong thing, etc; BUT we had to attack the system without attacking the person.

For this forum? Yes, a number of us have all sorts of experiences behind us & it is great that we can share in the giving & receiving of that. I've been helped numerous times - saving me both funds & sanity.
Often as the pages grow, some posters forget what the original issue was, with some hijacking it for something else (I admit some guilt there - mostly toward the end of the epistles). And I often don't read everything that has been written (I sometimes get lost in the repetitive copying of statements). I either bow out or try to decipher what has been suggested.

Can I suggest that as someone chooses to reply, can they relook at the original query, any follow-ups then at what they have written & then hit the Post button.

One thing that gives me (& several others, I know) the gripes is a new member coming in, posing a question & after receiving often good advice, we don't hear of or see that person again. No thanks, no kiss my boot, etc! Others (new members) fail to have a look at the forum, what it contains, do their own searching before posing a question. Perhaps Dr Google is partially at fault as often this forum comes up in Internet Searches.

TheHeaths · Guru

Bill B wrote:
TheHeaths wrote:

Lets hope it gets back to what is was.
Sorry but whilst certain posters are given free reign by forum management it isn't going to happen.

BillB. I think your correct, but one can hope!

Whenarewethere · Guru

Anyone who adds the footnote TIA (Thanks In Advance), one's starting point is simply don't respond.

They are Fly-by-night, so why bother to part with valuable knowledge.

Webmaster · Guru

Thanks everyone. I appreciate the input. I hope that we can now go back to discussing and sharing experiences and stories of the wonderful grey nomad lifestyle!