our population growth.

JayDee · Guru

our population growth.

Whenarewethere · Guru

Is the 518,000 the highest number as a percentage of the population?

JayDee · Guru

My view is that it was a record number.
Jay&Dee

Whenarewethere · Guru

Australia had -85,000 in 2020/21. So one could look at the average of those 2 periods at 216,500. At least that would have some limited meaning.

Both -85k & 518k not factoring in other issues are in themselves simply meaningless numbers.

msg · Guru

Even 1 migrant is too many at this point in time. We should be making do with what we have and fix our immediate problems. Then if we must, resume the programme when we have the infrastructure to handle them. But I fear that things have sunk too low (skilled labor has been allowed to dwindle). We all know that migration covers up the budget blunders and makes the numbers look good, which is why governments of all persuasions favor it... Suggest it is all political.

dorian · Guru

JayDee wrote:
"Net overseas migration is the net gain or loss of population through international migration to and from Australia. In the year ending 30 June 2023, overseas migration contributed a net gain of 518,000 people to Australia's population. This was the largest net overseas migration estimate since records began.15 Dec 2023

... and none of them were air-conditioning mechanics, or at least that would explain why nobody has responded to my Yellow Pages requests to quote on a repair job.

Whenarewethere · Guru

In my area it appears none were shop assistants, café staff or cleaners.

yobarr · Guru

dorian wrote:
JayDee wrote:
"Net overseas migration is the net gain or loss of population through international migration to and from Australia. In the year ending 30 June 2023, overseas migration contributed a net gain of 518,000 people to Australia's population. This was the largest net overseas migration estimate since records began.15 Dec 2023
... and none of them were air-conditioning mechanics, or at least that would explain why nobody has responded to my Yellow Pages requests to quote on a repair job.

If you seriously want it fixed, don't mess around getting quotes. Just get the job done.

When I was in sales the first thing I would ask is "Are you buying, or are you just wasting my time getting quotes", and if they said "We're getting quotes" I would say "If you're buying on price you're talking to the wrong person" and I would leave.

With the current shortage of tradesmen do you really think anybody is going to waste time "quoting" you when they could be elsewhere, actually earning money?

I am sure it would be easy for you to determine the going hourly rate for a tradesman, and you then you at least have an idea.

The local pub always is a good place to find "friends of friends" who may be able to point you in the right direction, and a bit of cash "Under the table" always helps. Good luck. I think you'll need it. Cheers

P.S Yellow pages is SO 1900s.

peter67 · Guru

JayDee wrote:
Any wonder that as a country we are struggling to keep our infrastructure up with the demand placed on it from population growth.
I am not sure if this includes the net gain regarding births and deaths.
I could go on and on regarding why we have issues with vehicles, roads, housing, jobs etc etc, but I think you know the necessities we require to balance our population growth.
The figures below are approximately twice 2x the population of Townsville.

"Net overseas migration is the net gain or loss of population through international migration to and from Australia. In the year ending 30 June 2023, overseas migration contributed a net gain of 518,000 people to Australia's population. This was the largest net overseas migration estimate since records began.15 Dec 2023
Jay&Dee

And don't forget the 775,000 foreign students here each year, they have to rent somewhere....

Aussie1 · Guru

yobarr wrote:
dorian wrote:
JayDee wrote:
"Net overseas migration is the net gain or loss of population through international migration to and from Australia. In the year ending 30 June 2023, overseas migration contributed a net gain of 518,000 people to Australia's population. This was the largest net overseas migration estimate since records began.15 Dec 2023
... and none of them were air-conditioning mechanics, or at least that would explain why nobody has responded to my Yellow Pages requests to quote on a repair job.
If you seriously want it fixed, don't mess around getting quotes. Just get the job done.
When I was in sales the first thing I would ask is "Are you buying, or are you just wasting my time getting quotes", and if they said "We're getting quotes" I would say "If you're buying on price you're talking to the wrong person" and I would leave.
With the current shortage of tradesmen do you really think anybody is going to waste time "quoting" you when they could be elsewhere, actually earning money?
I am sure it would be easy for you to determine the going hourly rate for a tradesman, and you then you at least have an idea.
The local pub always is a good place to find "friends of friends" who may be able to point you in the right direction, and a bit of cash "Under the table" always helps. Good luck. I think you'll need it. Cheers
P.S Yellow pages is SO 1900s.

I agree

msg · Guru

We are not training enough people in the trades we want. That will take some time to fix.

Also, I personally know an electrician who is working in America. His firm contracted the job, and several experienced electricians were sent over. This has been going on since Covid started and has a couple more years to run.

Speaking to another electrician, he said that their firm will not quote for small domestic jobs because they prefer the large, long-time contracts from govt and developers.

So, we with small domestic jobs miss out most of the time. I bet it is the same deal for most trades.

But unemployment numbers are good, so it is a point for whichever govt.

-- Edited by msg on Thursday 18th of January 2024 11:02:55 AM

-- Edited by msg on Thursday 18th of January 2024 11:03:45 AM

Whenarewethere · Guru

msg wrote:
We are not training enough people in the trades we want. That will take some time to fix.

My side of the family is in England (even back to one screw from royal lineage 7 generations ago). In not too distant recent times bombing the crap out of my Wife's family. My Dad worked for De Haviland. Other half is German. The same issues there, bombing the crap out of England.

I still use cash, as one says "cash is king!" If you want something done locally or are in the remote outback.

The idiots who use network banking have a short life!

Even in Manly - Sydney, too many times I pay for fuel with cash & others have to leave their daughters for security (as long as they are pretty enough or have similar relative or greater value) as the network is down.

So many basic fundamental problems that only a dumb citizen can solve that politicians can't with their self interest.

dogbox · Guru

may be a bit of decentralization thrown into the mix ?

everybody wants to live in the major cities and they are running out of room to build so they must go up, if they start building houses in country towns/cities people will move in that direction the infrastructure if not already there will soon follow

Whenarewethere · Guru

Easy to fix (if no corruption involved!)

If you have spent time in Germany, great rail system, cheap, also great bus network as an overlapping system & in cities underground train networks. Towns & villages work because of decentralized system.

I could never work out why the Sydney Melbourne corridor, being the busiest route in the world & Australia effectively only has a steam train on this route.

dogbox · Guru

in the 70 and 80's a lot of people moved out of the inner suburbs of places like syd,melb an later bris. into the outer suburbs to buy places that they could afford, the travel times were not to bad but the infrastructure fell behind an travel times increased as the population moved outwards

they built Canberra with a purpose and now it thrives

Meredith · Senior Member

dorian wrote:
JayDee wrote:
"Net overseas migration is the net gain or loss of population through international migration to and from Australia. In the year ending 30 June 2023, overseas migration contributed a net gain of 518,000 people to Australia's population. This was the largest net overseas migration estimate since records began.15 Dec 2023
... and none of them were air-conditioning mechanics, or at least that would explain why nobody has responded to my Yellow Pages requests to quote on a repair job.

In our area none of them were tradesmen at all it appears. We wanted to have our downstairs bathroom renovated, everybody we have called (and there have been a lot) haven't wanted to take on any work at all for at least the next 6 months, they have more work than they could handle and they are finding it impossible to get subcontractors for things like the plastering and electrics that would be needed as part of the job. There is a major shortage of skilled and unskilled workers in many fields.

JayDee · Guru

And we put this Labor mob in to run our country for us. However, I did not do so.
It is going to get worse going forward as far as tradies availability.
We are having similar issues with getting a plumber and a roofie.
Even handymen (Persons) are hard to find.
I can recall back in 1949/50's our population was around 8 million.
I guess that 50 million will be on our doorstep by the middle of the century.

as a footnote.

In our little estate, a number of houses on 1000 sq. metre blocks are selling for over the M$1 mark.
We have a 400 sq. metre block and it keeps me active.

Jay&Dee

Whenarewethere · Guru

It's been about a 15 year problem. Personally I am not complaining.

A house a few doors along sold for $13.4m. We own 3/15 of our block of water front Units. One of the Units at the back just recently sold for a $1m with no water views.

But I actually do feel the entire system is broken, but it does go back a very long time with zero long term planning.

Ironically out forefathers of a hundred plus years ago could envisage future growth. They had land corridors all over Sydney, including, at the time what seemed impossible routes over Sydney's water ways.

Governments over the last few decades sold these land corridors, only to buy them back.

For the last 100 years governments are only capable of looking one day ahead!

dorian · Guru

yobarr wrote:

If you seriously want it fixed, don't mess around getting quotes. Just get the job done.

When I was in sales the first thing I would ask is "Are you buying, or are you just wasting my time getting quotes", and if they said "We're getting quotes" I would say "If you're buying on price you're talking to the wrong person" and I would leave.

You're so full of yourself. I wouldn't give anyone a blank cheque, and especially not you.

peter67 · Guru

Lighten up mate, no need to throw the toys out of the sandpit over some good advice given freely.

Craig1 · Guru

Have heard of more than a few stories of giving someone a " blank cheque ", so not for me either. Maybe ask for a maximum estimate

www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk

That is supposed to be- hipages-- put your job up, with your budget, worked for me a couple of times

dorian · Guru

peter67 wrote:
Lighten up mate, no need to throw the toys out of the sandpit over some good advice given freely.

Maybe you need some perspective. On two previous occasions, yobarr has said that he got an old woman to throw out her existing photovoltaic system and replace it with a new setup costing $20K (?). He did so by convincing her that its "inferior quality components" were only producing one third of the output of comparable systems sold by him. Anyone who understands the technology will realise that such a disparity is absurd. Had she known that the advice was coming from a truck driver, perhaps she would have sought a second opinion rather than giving him a blank cheque.

In my case I engaged an air-conditioning company to quote for the repair of our ducted system. We were told that the problem was due to a component which was no longer available. Instead, they wanted to install a complete new system, apart from the ducting. I wasn't about to give them a blank cheque, so the following day my brother searched for this part and found two sources for it, one of which was local. Fearing that this part truly was scarce, I immediately ordered it and it has now been delivered.

The problem now is that I can't get anyone to install it, nor quote for additional maintenance work. I am loath to re-engage the original company, as they are obviously shonky.

yobarr · Guru

When I get a day off I will respond to the dribble in the post below. Briefly, I was in the Solar industry for many years, and still have most of the facts from my thousands of sales.

When I get time I will screen-shot the review from my customer whose quality 6kw system produced 3 times as much electricity as did the 6kw El Cheapo that I removed from her roof.

Solar is one industry where you definitely get what you pay for.

This fact is far from being "absurd", a comment from someone with little apparent knowledge of the Solar industry.

It's pretty simple to understand, even for someone of limited intelligence.

As for me being merely a "truck driver", I am a man of many talents, particularly in sales, but prefer to drive trucks at $2500/week to talking to people all day, for a LOT more money.

-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 19th of January 2024 06:05:05 PM

Are We Lost · Guru

Yobarr, if your replacement system produced 3 times the power it was not because your equipment was 3 times as efficient. Maybe it was a bad install, poorly set up or faulty.

I am sure you know the real truth and that quality does not make that much difference. Advising someone to just give an unknown installer the nod without knowing the final price or reasonable estimate would be plain stupid.

Edit: Sorry I just noticed this is totally unrelated to the thread. No more from me. On a suitable thread .... bring it on!

-- Edited by Are We Lost on Friday 19th of January 2024 06:56:56 PM

yobarr · Guru

Are We Lost wrote:
Yobarr, if your replacement system produced 3 times the power it was not because your equipment was 3 times as efficient. Maybe it was a bad install, poorly set up or faulty.

I am sure you know the real truth and that quality does not make that much difference. Advising someone to just give an unknown installer the nod without knowing the final price or reasonable estimate would be plain stupid.
Edit: Sorry I just noticed this is totally unrelated to the thread. No more from me. On a suitable thread .... bring it on!

Hi Stephen, although I can't be bothered outlining the many variables that affect panel performance, you might like to start with researching "degradation". Many panel manufacturers "guarantee" 80% panel performance after 25 years, which is a joke.

And the chances of El Cheapo manufacturers being around in 25 years is nil.

Again, there are many more variables but I simply can't be bothered helping people who just want to argue about things that they have little experience with, or knowledge about. That's it from me. Cheers

dorian · Guru

This is why we need a targeted immigration policy rather than a net zero policy:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-20/tradie-shortage-delay-repair-storm-flood-damaged-homes-qld/103369160

"Queensland homeowners whose properties were damaged in recent storms and floods may have to wait up to 12 months for repairs and pay higher prices, with the state facing a tradie shortfall."

These are the same kinds of shortages that were prevalent in the communist countries of Eastern Europe.

-- Edited by dorian on Saturday 20th of January 2024 08:16:03 AM

msg · Guru

msg wrote:
We are not training enough people in the trades we want. That will take some time to fix.

Also, I personally know an electrician who is working in America. His firm contracted the job, and several experienced electricians were sent over. This has been going on since Covid started and has a couple more years to run.

Speaking to another electrician, he said that their firm will not quote for small domestic jobs because they prefer the large, long-time contracts from govt and developers.

So, we with small domestic jobs miss out most of the time. I bet it is the same deal for most trades.

But unemployment numbers are good, so it is a point for whichever govt.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I agree Dorian. As above.
However, they are not getting the right targeted workforce.
Also, if you consider the issue with the electricians (and other trades), we need to start paying sufficient wages to keep them in the country and not to simply get anyone in to work cheaply.
Perhaps, enforce somehow that they actually do the jobs they got the visa for. Most of them do not end up working in line with their visa. All they have to say is they couldn't get a job in that field so had to take what they could get.
My house needs urgent work but there is no one to do it. Like the one I did find to repair a minor issue in my van. He belted the wood with a claw hammer and put a hole in it then tried to run away. Finally, I was able to get an old Australian who was recovering from a heart attack to fix it. (He was younger than me so I can say that). He came up with an innovative solution and all has been happy since.
Seems at the moment all our skilled tradies have disappeared (overseas?) and appear to have been replaced by poorly trained ones. It is a global Issue. Are owners of large corporations moving the global workforce where they wish? Open borders policy? Globalisation?

Whenarewethere · Guru

The sad thing is that Australia does brilliantly in the Trades Olympics. Most people probably have never heard of it.

I suppose kicking & throwing balls, or running 100 metres has a more short term marketing value than useful stuff like plumbing, carpentry, electricians, construction etc.

Stop watching pointless brain dead sport. Which ever way you can push for people who actually keep roofs over our heads & toilets functioning.

dorian · Guru

The local church needed some work done to repair a roof. They waited one whole year for someone to answer the call. He came, saw what needed to be done, then left, promising to send them a quote. They never saw him again.

Aussie1 · Guru

dorian wrote:
The local church needed some work done to repair a roof. They waited one whole year for someone to answer the call. He came, saw what needed to be done, then left, promising to send them a quote. They never saw him again.

It's only a church for goodness sakes, not like someone who needed a roof over their home repaired