Mandatory speed limiting

Whenarewethere · Guru

Mandatory speed limiting

Peter_n_Margaret · Senior Member

On those fancy unlimited speed autobahns that you mention, EVERY vehicle with a GVM of 3.5T or more is limited to 80kph NOW.
That includes all trucks and many RVs.
And no commercial trucks are permitted to drive on Sunday without a special permit.
Cheers,
Peter

landy · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:

On those fancy unlimited speed autobahns that you mention, EVERY vehicle with a GVM of 3.5T or more is limited to 80kph NOW.

That includes all trucks and many RVs.

And no commercial trucks are permitted to drive on Sunday without a special permit.

Cheers,

Peter

Sounds like a good idea to me peter.

landy · Guru

My daily driver has this feature, when selected it reads the speed limit singe's and adjusts the limiter to suite .

-- Edited by landy on Monday 8th of July 2024 10:16:33 PM

dogbox · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:

On those fancy unlimited speed autobahns that you mention, EVERY vehicle with a GVM of 3.5T or more is limited to 80kph NOW.

That includes all trucks and many RVs.

And no commercial trucks are permitted to drive on Sunday without a special permit.

Cheers,

Peter

again referring to NSW heavy vehicles were prohibited at one time, from coming into Sydney on a Sunday afternoon but i may be showing my age

as far as speed limiting cars, trucks have been speed limited since the 1980's and before that most Pommy trucks were geared to a maximum speed of 40 MPH as per the speed limit for HGV in the UK

Greg 1 · Guru

Not a big fan of speed limiting. I have witnessed too many close calls on country roads with road trains passing another vehicle with a closing speed only marginally faster and taking 5 kilometres to get past and ending up creating a dangerous situation with on coming traffic. The same too with a driver who elects to pass a road train travelling at 100kph and the driver of the car refuses to go any faster than the posted speed limit of 110kph and ends up taking so long to make the overtake that they are faced with oncoming traffic and there is almost been a head on. I know that the law says you cannot exceed the limit under any circumstances, but this becomes senseless if you are faced with imminent death all because you must not speed up under any circumstances. I know there will be those that say don't pass then, wait for an overtaking lane, but there are many highways in this country that simply don't have them. An example of this was on the Stuart Hwy across the Hay Plain. I was sat at my usual 100kph and was slowly gathered in by a roadtrain doing about 2kph faster than me. About 20ks out of Balranald he elected to pass me on a long straight but his passing speed was such that he just wasn't going to make it in the length of the straight. 2kph was going to take him all the way to Balranald to get the job done. There happened to be some on coming vehicles come onto the straight as he started his move but he persisted. If I hadn't backed right off and actually braked quite firmly there would have been a head on. Perhaps if he hadn't have been speed limited the situation may not have developed quite like it did. A much more sensible device is the cruise control with speed sign recognition so that it maintains the legal speed but can be over ridden should the need arise.

Are We Lost · Guru

I agree with Greg. In the example of 2kph faster, that is 200 metres in 6 minutes. Maybe more than 3 minutes to overtake/be overtaken by a roadtrain with sufficient room to pull in front.

The problem is even if the overtake begins with no other car in sight, a lot can change in that time. Impatience, unfortunately drives human nature to persist, when logic and safety says the attempt should be abandoned. Even 5kph faster still takes a long time. If half way past, braking and pulling back in behind may present its own dangers.

If speeding up 10kph or more enables a faster overtake, (whether over the limit or not) that is a lot safer. Of course the even safer option is to sit behind, but for some that is all too hard.

Perhaps the rules should be changed to allow a brief increase in speed above posted limits for such situations when safe to do so.

dogbox · Guru

Are We Lost wrote:

I agree with Greg. In the example of 2kph faster, that is 200 metres in 6 minutes. Maybe more than 3 minutes to overtake/be overtaken by a roadtrain with sufficient room to pull in front.

The problem is even if the overtake begins with no other car in sight, a lot can change in that time. Impatience, unfortunately drives human nature to persist, when logic and safety says the attempt should be abandoned. Even 5kph faster still takes a long time. If half way past, braking and pulling back in behind may present its own dangers.

If speeding up 10kph or more enables a faster overtake, (whether over the limit or not) that is a lot safer. Of course the even safer option is to sit behind, but for some that is all too hard.

Perhaps the rules should be changed to allow a brief increase in speed above posted limits for such situations when safe to do so.

are we going to make excuses/exceptions to speed

JackoFJR · Senior Member

are we going to make excuses/exceptions to speed

We should be legally permitted to exceed the speed limit to safely overtake , but it will never happen because it will get abused , the other option is to travel at the same speed as the trucks , Road Trains , that's what I do they never catch me and I very rarely need to over take them , sometimes in hills or those limited to 90KPH .

Peter_n_Margaret · Senior Member

If you are travelling at 100kph, it is a lot easier to overtake another vehicle that is doing 70kph than one that is doing 95kph.
Cheers,
Peter

landy · Guru

An example of this was on the Stuart Hwy across the Hay Plain.
I was sat at my usual 100kph and was slowly gathered in by a roadtrain doing about 2kph faster than me.
About 20ks out of Balranald he elected to pass me on a long straight but his passing speed was such that he just wasn't going to make it in the length of the straight. 2kph was going to take him all the way to Balranald to get the job done.
There happened to be some on coming vehicles come onto the straight as he started his move but he persisted.
If I hadn't backed right off and actually braked quite firmly there would have been a head on.
Perhaps if he hadn't have been speed limited the situation may not have developed quite like it did.
A much more sensible device is the cruise control with speed sign recognition so that it maintains the legal speed but can be over ridden should the need arise.

I do not know if this applys to all modern speed limiters Greg but my vehicle is only limited to normal throttle pressure. If at any time you feel the speed limiter is limiting your safety a quick push down on the throttle brings the sort of response you you would expect from any automatic gearbox, it changes down a couple of gears and takes off, If your passing something just lifting your foot after you have passed puts you back in limited mode.
Landy

Are We Lost · Guru

Landy, your comment led me to open the link posted by Whenarewethere in the original post (I should have looked before).

From that link, apparently the legislation is similar to what you say, and can be overriden (and recommeded that it may be disabled). I believe Greg was thinking of speed governors such as trucks currently have, and can't be overridden. I responded based on that concept.

In fact the speed limiter as now legislated in Europse I would support. My Ford Ranger has a speed limiter, which is activated very similar to cruise control, and the limit adjusted the same way. I use it frequently on the open road as it is all too easy to creep over the limit and get a ticket. But mine does not integrate with mapping or traffic sign recognition. That would be the next step and I would embrace that, but would want the option to disable it.

I have had Traffic Sign Recognition integrated into mine, and it just flashes a warning on the dashboard. A downside is it frequently reads school zones as needing to slow to 40kph. If this activated a speed limiting feature I would be pretty peeved. This was mentioned as a nuisance in the linked Drive article.

-- Edited by Are We Lost on Tuesday 9th of July 2024 10:18:35 PM

dogbox · Guru

JackoFJR wrote:

are we going to make excuses/exceptions to speed
We should be legally permitted to exceed the speed limit to safely overtake , but it will never happen because it will get abused , the other option is to travel at the same speed as the trucks , Road Trains , that's what I do they never catch me and I very rarely need to over take them , sometimes in hills or those limited to 90KPH .

what ever the speed limit someone will come up with an excuse/ reason to exceed it.

what will happen at some time in the future, vehicle speed will be limited by satellites communicating with the on-board computers in vehicles. we already have collision reduction system in modern vehicles (getting closer to driverless vehicles every day)

Whenarewethere · Guru

I will believe it when fully automated cars can negotiate Arc de Triomphe roundabout.

landy · Guru

Are We Lost wrote:

Landy, your comment led me to open the link posted by Whenarewethere in the original post (I should have looked before).

From that link, apparently the legislation is similar to what you say, and can be overriden (and recommeded that it may be disabled). I believe Greg was thinking of speed governors such as trucks currently have, and can't be overridden. I responded based on that concept.

In fact the speed limiter as now legislated in Europse I would support. My Ford Ranger has a speed limiter, which is activated very similar to cruise control, and the limit adjusted the same way. I use it frequently on the open road as it is all too easy to creep over the limit and get a ticket. But mine does not integrate with mapping or traffic sign recognition. That would be the next step and I would embrace that, but would want the option to disable it.

I have had Traffic Sign Recognition integrated into mine, and it just flashes a warning on the dashboard. A downside is it frequently reads school zones as needing to slow to 40kph. If this activated a speed limiting feature I would be pretty peeved. This was mentioned as a nuisance in the linked Drive article.

-- Edited by Are We Lost on Tuesday 9th of July 2024 10:18:35 PM

Hi Are We Lost. My smart cruise and speed limiter are both connected with the traffic singe recognition. but with a number of options on how they integrate, the way I have it set at the moment is below 80 km per hour it shows on the dash and and a single click on the speed adjuster will set it to what the car believes is the posted speed. Above 80 it automatically adjusts itself to the posted speed limit. School zones are a pain in the arse mine beeps if you don't do 40 in school zones even out of hours, luckily I'm nearly deaf and it doesn't bother me as much as a lot of other people.

-- Edited by landy on Wednesday 10th of July 2024 11:49:03 AM

watsea · Guru

If I am travelling at 95-96kph and being followed up by a large vehicle at 100kph, I keep my speed up (usually looking for a road widening) until that vehicle is out to pass me. Then I back off and let the big vehicle get away to enable its quicker exit from the wrong side of the road. I cannot see why making that vehicles time and distance on the wrong side of the road any longer than necessary, is going to benefit anyone. If a 50+tonne vehicle combination train decides to move over because of any approaching traffic, my 5 tonne vehicle and caravan rig and its passengers are not going to fare very well if a mishap occurs.

-- Edited by watsea on Wednesday 10th of July 2024 01:14:20 PM

JackoFJR · Senior Member

dogbox wrote:
JackoFJR wrote:

are we going to make excuses/exceptions to speed
We should be legally permitted to exceed the speed limit to safely overtake , but it will never happen because it will get abused , the other option is to travel at the same speed as the trucks , Road Trains , that's what I do they never catch me and I very rarely need to over take them , sometimes in hills or those limited to 90KPH .

what ever the speed limit someone will come up with an excuse/ reason to exceed it.

what will happen at some time in the future, vehicle speed will be limited by satellites communicating with the on-board computers in vehicles. we already have collision reduction system in modern vehicles (getting closer to driverless vehicles every day)

That's why it will never happen . like I said it will get abused ,

JackoFJR · Senior Member

If traveling just under the speed limit of 100 at about 95-97 and you see a semi or road train slowly gaining why not just increase speed to at least match their speed , you can usually see them hundreds of metres behind if not a couple of K's , stay well ahead until you find somewhere to easily pull over ,

Aussie1 · Guru

Whenarewethere wrote:
I will believe it when fully automated cars can negotiate Arc de Triomphe roundabout.

No problem with negotiating the Arc de Triomphe roundabout compared to negotiating all the "bullsh&%t" protesters after the French elections, complete with fireworks thrown in (pun intended)

Perhaps they could include all that as a sport in the Olympics biggrin

PeterD · Guru

JackoFJR wrote:
We should be legally permitted to exceed the speed limit to safely overtake , but it will never happen because it will get abused , the other option is to travel at the same speed as the trucks , Road Trains , that's what I do they never catch me and I very rarely need to over take them , sometimes in hills or those limited to 90KPH .

Exceeding the speed limit is considered to be unsafe

Overtaking is considered less safe than normal.

So you are saying we should be permitted to do two things together that are less safe than normal. This leads to the premise that if we are permitted to do that, then we should be permitted to drive at your overtaking speed when we are not overtaking. Put that to the authorities and see how far it goes.

Are We Lost · Guru

Being on the wrong side of the road is surely less safe than driving on the normal side. So the less time you are there the better.

Similar rules to what is being advocated apply in various circumstances. For example it is mandatory that you do not pass too close to a cyclist, so crossing double yellow lines to avoid that is legal.

When can you cross unbroken lines?

Obviously the "when safe to do so" would apply for any similar action. Personally I believe 10kph over the speed limit would typically be safer than crossing double yellow lines because in the case of double yellows there is most likely restricted long distance vision of the road ahead.

dogbox · Guru

why have limits if the powers to do not enforce them?

jegog · Senior Member

Personally, when I am being overtaken by a road train, truck, car with caravan, I slow down. I don't want to deal with a road train driver who decides that shoving me into the ditch is preferred to a head on with another vehicle.
When you are dead or bunged up in hospital being in the right is little consolation.
Don't let someone else have to choose whether you live or die.

darjak · Senior Member

jegog X2
Most trucks are on a fixed timetable so what is the problem with letting them past
In 5 minutes you wont even see their tail lights, instead of being arrogant.

The thing that annoys me the most is idiots speeding up in overtaking lanes.