What are the rules (Law) for carrying petrol/diesel on rear of van.

Brodie Allen · Guru

What are the rules (Law) for carrying petrol/diesel on rear of van.

landy · Guru

Brodie you may find this article interesting. https://myrigadventures.com/is-it-legal-to-carry-fuel-on-the-back-of-a-caravan/
I agree with you, I would not like to rear end anyone with 20 liters of petrol on the back bumper, or be rear ended myself if I was carrying
spare petrol in that position so I do not do it.
Landy

blackstump · Veteran Member

this links may help with actual facts.
www.business.qld.gov.au/industries/transport/dangerous-goods/personal-tools-trade

Bottom line, Is it legal yes, Is it advisable, Petrol NO, Diesel can't see why not.

Diesel is extremely hard to ignite, I use drip torches to light fires around the farm and have to mix 75% diesel with 25% petrol to make it burn.

watsea · Guru

I have carried diesel in a holder on the drawbar, being aware of its classification.
My concern has been more about theft of the contents or the container. That is something for the carrier to think through.

Possum3 · Guru

Most Forum members would in my opinion have enough life experience to use common sense when transporting fuel - I do see many mainly young people however carrying fuel in "wrong colour coded" containers as a result of lack of supervision at service stations.
If you are at a service station any weekend you will see persons filling all sorts of "containers" with petrol (usually), for use in their mowers, brushcutters, chainsaws, etc.

There seems to be a need for more signage regarding transporting fuel, at the service stations.

Whenarewethere · Guru

Not where I would carry fuel.

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Whenarewethere · Guru

Where we keep our extra fuel.

normal_IMG_20191001_Chainsaw (1).jpg

(We don't own a chainsaw)

4 x 10L custom built anodised aluminium & 316 stainless holder.

Whenarewethere · Guru

2 x 5L, could have got 2 x 10L (which I would have liked... fuel range) in the rim, but without a proper clamping holder design. I wanted a simple set-up which was easy to use.

The base has been modified since this photo.

The bracket to clamp down the second spare wheel & 2 x 5L fuel containers, is attached to blocks within the cross bars. Also with Nylon joints (5083 alloy with rolled milled grain running lengthwise. With hindsight would have gone with 12mm, but 10mm thickness had not bent, & drilled a few less holes to reduce weight at the centre. But so far no issues with the design).

Other side of 4 x 10L holder.

I have 3 x 20 L containers, but 10L is much easier to lift on & off roof to fill tank, & "you" will rotate fuel storge regularly as it is far easier, 9kg for 10L (as per specific gravity). 20L is just a bit too much for the dinosaurs I am, getting on & off the roof, let alone tunnelling a large (20L) into the tank.

Peter_n_Margaret · Senior Member

I do not believe that there are any rules regarding fuel container colour. They are "colours of convenience".
It is unwise however, to use non approved containers for fuel, especially petrol, because they may fail prematurely.

And, I think fuel on the roof is a poor choice from a stability perspective. Much better low down.
Cheers,
Peter

-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Sunday 11th of August 2024 04:05:55 PM

Aussie1 · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
I think fuel on the roof is a poor choice from a stability perspective. Much better low down.
Cheers,
Peter

-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Sunday 11th of August 2024 04:05:55 PM

Absolutely agree, as well as way to difficult for the wife to lift down when required

landy · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:

I think fuel on the roof is a poor choice from a stability perspective. Much better low down.
Cheers,
Peter

-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Sunday 11th of August 2024 04:05:55 PM

Double whammy Peter, not only bad for stability but if you were unfortunate enough to role over the last thing you want on the roof is containers of
petrol. Landy

Whenarewethere · Guru

I agree with weight issues on the roof. But I am not putting petrol on the front, back, sides or inside the car. So where else, & can't fit a larger tank.

We also carry up to 80L of water, but that is in the rear foot wells, so can't get that any lower or more central in the car. Swings & roundabouts.

We use 10L containers maximum, so 9kg including container, specific gravity of petrol is about 0.75. Wouldn't want to lift 20L regularly on & off the roof. 10L containers we move all the time getting it in the tank as soon as possible when remote.

The second spare wheel is 30kg, luckily only had to do that once, other than at that at start & end of trip. Plugged tyres regularly instead, less lifting.

Peter_n_Margaret · Senior Member

Wrong vehicle for the application?

Manufacturers typically rate roof loads to a maximum value. That would almost certainly exceed it.
Like this, seen on the Canning Stock Route a few days ago.

Cheers,

Peter

-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Sunday 11th of August 2024 09:49:59 PM

Whenarewethere · Guru

I would rather have it here than on the back of the car. Bell Gorge.

normal_IMG_6281-bell-gorge (1).jpg

Whenarewethere · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Wrong vehicle for the application?

The Touareg only has room for a biscuit so has to put two spares on the roof.

Not the only manufacturer, ridiculous design for a 4wd.

Brodie Allen · Guru

Gee - we have some interesting stuff here!

I have a 15L drum set into the spare wheel which I carry in the back of my touareg
along with genny and freezer and stuff. (With the rear seats folded down I have
an acre of space).

Just made a tray of the whole rear with a bit of rubber backed carpet from Bunnings
laid over the lot.

But back to the thread - I have mentioned my query to a truckie that happens to
be resting nearby and he says that there is a minimum height for fuel on the rear
and must never be petrol. Diesel ok but a max amount of ??. (Can't remember).

I have two 15 L drums (black) - you know, the squatty square type, under the bed
in the van.

5 X 5 L under the chassis in lockable box. And 2 X 10 L in lockable box on drawbar
along with 2 X 15 L empty blue squatties for grey for when the commandos don't want
water on their trees.

Thanks for the references for reading - will digest that and maybe summarise on the
forum here.

B

Whenarewethere · Guru

If there was any really worthwhile spare wheel design on any "half" reasonable 4wd. One could have a full size spare under the boot floor (my car can fit a 245/70r17 (what I wanted but at $850 a rim x 6 was an expense I was then otherwise was going to find the second best work around). 255/60r18 is 6mm too high for the boot floor (tyre width) so had to pack up the boot floor 6mm, but diameter it was a piece of cake)* & the option of a second on the rear if manufacturers provided this would be a design winner, but the Australian market is too small.

Then it leaves the roof free for other stuff (also increase rear axle load capacity for the design while at it is another issue)

Our Freelander has a 350kg tow ball weight, brilliant for such a small car... but the car only has a 500kg payload. Also a pathetic rear axle load.

Go figure, only an anorexic waif, if lucky, can drive the car. Not to forget factoring leverage on the rear axil (pretty short on the Freelander, let's say for argument's sake a factor of 1.3 (we don't have a towbar so it is a mute point from our perspective, so never calculated this requirement).

* Very sorry for brackets within brackets - (( )).

Maybe I should use a Unimog, but then due to my age licence issues there is another set of problems with Gross Vehicle Mass looming!

I get the message that us older generation are required to become more "spiritual" (a bit like Newton's family freeing up capital for the next generation to burn on tulip bulbs).

Hand built 1:220 Unimogs:

Whenarewethere · Guru

The Touareg V10 diesel, out of our price range!

Cupie · Guru

Whenarewethere wrote:
If there was any really worthwhile spare wheel design on any "half" reasonable 4wd. One could have a full size spare under the boot floor (my car can fit a 245/70r17 (what I wanted but at $850 a rim x 6 was an expense I was then otherwise was going to find the second best work around). 255/60r18 is 6mm too high for the boot floor (tyre width) so had to pack up the boot floor 6mm, but diameter it was a piece of cake)* & the option of a second on the rear if manufacturers provided this would be a design winner, but the Australian market is too small.

Then it leaves the roof free for other stuff (also increase rear axle load capacity for the design while at it is another issue)

Our Freelander has a 350kg tow ball weight, brilliant for such a small car... but the car only has a 500kg payload. Also a pathetic rear axle load.

Go figure, only an anorexic waif, if lucky, can drive the car. Not to forget factoring leverage on the rear axil (pretty short on the Freelander, let's say for argument's sake a factor of 1.3 (we don't have a towbar so it is a mute point from our perspective, so never calculated this requirement).

* Very sorry for brackets within brackets - (( )).

Maybe I should use a Unimog, but then due to my age licence issues there is another set of problems with Gross Vehicle Mass looming!

I get the message that us older generation are required to become more "spiritual" (a bit like Newton's family freeing up capital for the next generation to burn on tulip bulbs).

Hand built 1:220 Unimogs:

I always enjoy your posts & am amazed at your 'constructions'.

The attention to detail is really something.

Keep it up .. thanks

Edit .. BTW with respect to the orig post ..

Not sure of the legalities, but I often carry an emergency 20L of unleaded in the centre of my front boot. It fits, nicely protected by a 5 ply front piece, padded base and leak & bump proof wrappings. The plastic jerry can is never completely full to allow for a bit of gas/expansion. No batteries or gas storage in the boot.

On a single occasion - my first trip across the Nullarbor in 2000 I had 3 x 20L in the boot. Foolish, unsafe & un-necessary.

-- Edited by Cupie on Monday 12th of August 2024 10:21:28 AM

Dick0 · Guru

I carry 3 x 10lt diesel in yellow containers on back of caravan in lockable and stone protected frame, about 200km distance.

Saved me a couple of times when out of the way s/stations ran out of fuel, Cape Crawford for instance.

Spare wheel is also on back of van and overall weight seems to balance out entire van.

I wouldn't put fuel on top of vehicle in case of rollover or front of van in case of breakaway.

As there is no law against it, each his own with or without reason.

Possum3 · Guru

Cupie wrote:
The plastic jerry can is never completely full to allow for a bit of gas/expansion.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________-
Plastic Fuel containers are better when full as liquids don't expand - air and petrol on the other hand are explosive.
Travel with full containers always to prevent pressure build up.

Whenarewethere · Guru

Dick0 wrote:
I carry 3 x 10lt

10L are so much easier, & one will as a result rotate fuel storge & get into the tank at the earliest opportunity, with the benefit of overall lower centre of gravity.

P.S. Unimog totally hand built from high impact styrene. Spray painted with 150g touch up spray cans. Last photo, trees, house & people were off the shelf. Land Rover was totally hand built, about 3 days work, has polycarbonate glazing, like the Unimogs.

Brodie Allen · Guru

There's also the matter of insurance - keep it legal because Insurance is
always on the lookout to modify or refuse payouts.

Can you imagine the horror and court dramas if apart from physical damage,
if occupants behind you are burnt!!! Or your roll-over is attributed to your
excessive top load and again, somebody's been burned to death!!!

"I'm careful, won't happen to me . . ."

B

watsea · Guru

I was going to post that putting the jerry can fuel into the vehicle tank ASAP is good option.
Though I just saw it mentioned earlier. Anyway, posting the thinking again to reinforce the message.

Brenda and Alan · Guru

Possum3 wrote:
Cupie wrote:
The plastic jerry can is never completely full to allow for a bit of gas/expansion.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________-
Plastic Fuel containers are better when full as liquids don't expand - air and petrol on the other hand are explosive.
Travel with full containers always to prevent pressure build up.

Full or empty the pressure inside the container is determined by the vapour pressure of the contents or residue at the temperature of them. Liquids do in the main expand with temperature so leave some vapour space.

Alan

-- Edited by Brenda and Alan on Monday 12th of August 2024 03:59:49 PM

Peter_n_Margaret · Senior Member

Travel with full containers always to prevent pressure build up.

The above is quite wrong.

Full or empty the pressure inside the container is determined by the vapour pressure of the contents or residue at the temperature of them. Liquids do in the main expand with temperature so leave some vapour space.

The above is correct.

Very important with petrol, less important with diesel due to the different vapour pressure.

The maximum level of fuel is marked on fuel approved containers for this reason.

Cheers,

Peter

-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Monday 12th of August 2024 06:19:20 PM

TimTim · Guru

Brodie Allen wrote:
I have asked around and everyone has a different concept.

It seems to be a common practice but I wonder about legality, and
insurance ramifications.

Wouldn't want a face-full of fuel in the event that I rear-ended a van
with containers of fuel on the rear.

B

If you ask around you will always get different answers.

Blackstump has provided the only credible source of information for QLD because it gives a general run down of what is permitted and it provides links to legislation. It should be the same quantities in all States but i wouldn't put money on that. Without digging too deep it only says you must not carry over the limit inside the passenger vehicle. As for diesel it is not classified as dangerous goods and there are no limits from what I can see.

In NSW the limits are under Clause 7 of the Dangerous Goods Regulation but doesnt state how they are to be carried except for limits inside a passenger vehicle. Again diesel is not classified as dangerous goods.

https://www.epa.nsw.gov.au/your-environment/dangerous-goods/dangerous-goods-as-tools-of-trade-personal-use#:~:text=you%20can%20carry%20an%20aggregate,gases)%20or%20packing%20group%20I.

As for insurance always check what it says in your PDS.

Tim

Big Mal · Senior Member

Its hard to actually find a regulation to quote, last time I researched it was a few years back .............. carrying petrol or flammable liquid or LPG on back was a No. No, Diesel okay as its not Flammable .................. 2 x 9kg bottles only can be carried by a vehicle and not in the cabin, unless in an approved compartment, so 3 bottles in the ute tray is not on either ..... but CDF should show you.

Carrying spares and fuel/gas on the roof, well 50 years ago I worked out that was not a great idea, if you really need to do it then you have the wrong rig ................ chase a spare across a paddock when you drop it is not fun and a Jerry swiped by a low branch causes all sorts of drama......... plus the weight ....