New to caravanning - Ford Everest towing CAravan query

BurgerBob · Newbie

New to caravanning - Ford Everest towing CAravan query

shakey55 · Senior Member

BurgerBob wrote:
I have a 2021 Everest Titanium, std with only nudge bar on front and airbags on rear aftermarket. I am looking at a new 2025 Supreme Classic Tourer 20K package. There are only myself and the better half travelling in the tow vehicle.. https://www.supremecaravans.com.au/20kseries-classic-tourer

The weights for the van are 2584 tare, 3234 ATM, 192 ball weight
We travel pretty light but would really like to know roughly how much weight (stuff) we could potentially put in the tow vehicle and what we could put in the van. I do plan to get it weight checked when fully loaded so we are doing the right thing but i'm just looking for guidance and estimates right now

I've looked through the site and there is lots of information but not exactly what i'm looking for
Thanks and Happy Trails

BurgerBob

If you are definitely getting this van (or any van you buy), I would pack with everything you would consider taking away (including clothes, food and odds & ends, fill gas bottles, fill water tanks. Pack car with what you would consider putting in the car, fill fuel tank, and with the wife arrange to get it professionally weighed, and listen to what they tell you about your car and van weights and how you have packed your van.

This in my opinion will give you a perfect insight about your van & car weights.

Cheers and Good Luck

The Travelling Dillberries · Guru

If it's a 2 litre diesel Everest Titanium '21, towing capacity is 3100kg,

If ATM of van is plated at 3234 kg you cannot legally tow it.

Radar · Guru

Hi Burger Bob

I doubt if anyone can give you an exact answer to your post, maybe short rough estimate.

Like Everytime we leave home on one of our 6 to 8 weeks trips, do I fill the 3 water tanks, 1 full gas bottle and second 3 kg of gas in the bottle.

We have 600 kgs of payload but never use it. Our tow vehicle, a dual cab with no canopy is also under weight and we do travel light but I did notice my book reading wife has about 12 books under the bed which she has assured me they will disappear at the next camp kitchen.

I have loaded the caravan using a washing basket then weighing everything on the bath scales and writing down the weights. After doing that before trips become very similar each time. Like when we travel overseas, one bag weighs 14 and the other 16 kilograms with very little variance.

Load the caravan up and go an it put over a licence weight bridge.

Peter_n_Margaret · Senior Member

The Travelling Dillberries wrote:
If it's a 2 litre diesel Everest Titanium '21, towing capacity is 3100kg,
If ATM of van is plated at 3234 kg you cannot legally tow it.

Not correct.

The legal towing limit of the vehicle is the actual weight of the van, not the ATM.

Cheers,

Peter

Greg 1 · Guru

It is a little dependent on what model Everest you have. Whilst all models have a rated capacity of 3500kgs, the Gross Vehicle Mass varies from 3000kgs to 3150kgs depending on whether it is 4x2, 4x4, 4 cylinder or V6. They all have a reasonable Gross Combination Mass of 6250kgs all making them a good tow vehicle. However, there is a difference when you hitch up a fully laden van to the back of most vehicles because you will find that by the time you are laden that nice 3500kg rating means little and your nice new vehicle really won't tow 3500kgs in any practical sense and in the case of your Everest will be more like 3100kgs in reality. Very simple calculation without taking everything into consideration, take the best case scenario GVM from the GCM ....6250 -3150 = 3100kgs so that is what you can tow with the car fully laden. Also on the van you mentioned, forget the ball weight on the label. It will be around 300 to 320kgs fully laden. That weight of course goes onto your tow cars load so reduces its payload by that weight. Axle load is also something that must be considered. I would say, just looking at the numbers on the van you are considering, you will be pushing the envelope pretty hard with the Everest. If it were me I would be looking at a slightly lighter van, perhaps with an ATM around the 3000kg mark which gives you a little safety margin with the vehicle.

Are We Lost · Guru

Greg 1 wrote:
It is a little dependent on what model Everest you have. Whilst all models have a rated capacity of 3500kgs, the Gross Vehicle Mass varies from 3000kgs to 3150kgs depending on whether it is 4x2, 4x4, 4 cylinder or V6. They all have a reasonable Gross Combination Mass of 6250kgs all making them a good tow vehicle. ..........

I think you will find the V6 was only available from from 2023 on. The same for the 6250kg GCM. I believe the 2021 as stated by Burgerbob would be a 2.0L turbo. Apologies if I have that wrong. The Ford brochure I have only lists a 2.0L bi-turbo for the 2021 Titanium, and with the following specs:

Kerb weight: 2446kg

GVM: 3100kg

Maximum towed weight: 3100kg

GCM: 5900kg

To me those figures make it an unviable combination. The stated maximum towing capacity of 3100kg can never be reached in practice unless towing a dog trailer (no weight on towball). This is because at 3100kg, the maximum the laden Everest can weigh before connecting is 2800kg which is 300kg lighter than what it tows. Not a good idea, particularly for someone new to towing.

Greg, you suggested the ball weight would be about 300+kg when laden. Hopefully that is the case, to be close to the 10% ball weight guideline. With 300kg ball weight it is probably exceeding the Everest's rear axle limit of 1750kg. The rear axle payload is well under 600kg. A ball weight of 300kg would add close to 450kg to the rear axle due to the leverage effect (and close to 150kg off the front). With 2 passengers and personal items (say 200kg) that would add about another 100kg to the rear axle, probably taking it right to the limit.

So the laden weight of the Everest before connecting would be 2446 + 200 = 2646kg. Way too light to tow such a heavy van. And no ability to store heavy items in the rear luggage area.

Greg, you suggested looking for a van up to 3000kg. That was based on the better specs of the later models. With those reduced specs I believe 3000kg is still too heavy.

Sorry Bob, I think you need to revise your expectations down somewhat. Whatever you get in the larger range, you will no doubt see a great benefit in using a Weight Distribution Hitch. Airbags do nothing to reduce rear axle load or transfer much of that lost weight back onto the front wheels.

-- Edited by Are We Lost on Wednesday 26th of March 2025 10:19:27 PM

watsea · Guru

During the day, I did some websearches to check some of the Titaniums weight limits and capacities. After reading the previous posts, there seems to be a variety of values that are stated, depending on the source. For example, I have seen GVM = 3,100kg, GCM = 6,250kg or 6,200kg,
max TBW = 350kg, Max Braked Tow Capacity = 3,100 kg.
max rear axle load = 1,750kg
ie variable answers and different to others posts.

I suggest that BurgerBob refers to his Fords handbook and compliance plates to confirm the specifications for his vehicle.
Nonetheless, he cannot tow and be in compliance if he is to load his van to its rated ATM of 3,234 kg.
Once it is determined what is the handbook stated towing capacity, I think the rear axle load rating will be a further limiting factor. However, this can be worked on.

Are We Lost mentioned a Weight Distribution Hitch. I think that WDHs are worthwhile but one needs to check that an appropriate tow bar is fitted. Some OME towbars suffer cracking if a WDH is used. If a WDH is to be used, a suitable designed and strength towbar is necessary.

-- Edited by watsea on Thursday 27th of March 2025 12:19:18 AM

Are We Lost · Guru

Here is a link to Ford's brochure for the model as from last quarter 2020. It shows the relevant limits.

Ford Everest 2021.75MY brochure

EDIT: Sorry about an incorrect link. Now fixed.

-- Edited by Are We Lost on Thursday 27th of March 2025 12:16:02 PM

watsea · Guru

Are We Lost wrote:
Here is a link to Ford's brochure for the model as from last quarter 2020. It shows the relevant limits.
Ford Everest 2021.75MY brochure.

Steve,

via my iPad, a click on that link just brings me to this GN thread again. Is the link working for you?

Cupie · Guru

Where's Yobarr when you need him ... seriously .. but then it would deteriorate into an argument about WDHs, and then personal attacks on him.

We lost a knowledgeable member when Yobarr pulled the pin.

watsea · Guru

Cupie wrote:
but then it would deteriorate into an argument about WDHs, and then personal attacks on him.

Are you forgetting the personal attacks from him?

Are We Lost · Guru

Sorry about the incorrect link for the Ford brochure. Now corrected and here it is again.

Ford Everest 2020.75MY brochure.

Yobarr and I share similar views except on the benefits of a WDH. I know he would be a lot more outspoken on his views of this.

-- Edited by Are We Lost on Thursday 27th of March 2025 12:21:21 PM

BurgerBob · Newbie

Hi All... Thanks for the responses so far...

There would aonly be me and the better half in the tow vehicle... About 160 kg's between us... We normally go to caravan parks with water and power so no real need to fill water tanks... I think max we would probably add max 200 - 250kg's to the caravan with gas bottles, a few tools, clothes, food, beers etc

Caravan specs
Tare 2584
ATM 3234
GTM 3042
Ball Weight 192

Car weights "2021 Titanium 2L BiTurbo"
Kerb Weight 2477kg
GVM 3100kg
GCM 5900kg
Towing Capacity (braked) 3100kg
Maximum Front Axle Load 1480kg
Maximum Rear Axle Load 1750kg

I've loaded all these weights etc onto towing weight compliance calculator online and everythign is pointing in the "under weight" direction - https://adelaiderv.com.au/information-hub/caravan-weight-calculator/

Appreciate all the information... Thanks

watsea · Guru

I did some calculations, making some assumptions-
- Total weight of loaded vehicle is distributed to front and rear axles in the same proportions as the max ratings for its axle loads
- Loaded caravan towball weight as 10% of the loaded caravan weight.
- without knowing the dimensions of the towball and vehicle wheel base, I have assumed the towball weight generates an extra 140% of its weight to the rear axle. (140% applies with my Prado, some other folk say 150% which is more, obviously.)

Also, I thing BurgerBobs loadings might be a light. A nudge bar at the front of the vehicle has been mentioned. Also maybe they would like a few refreshments etc in the vehicle while travelling.
Anyway, by assumptions and using Bobs weights.
Total vehicle weight = kerb weight + load = 2,637kgs.
Front axle loads = 1,208kg, Rear Axle Load without the van = 1,429 kgs.

Total Loaded Van = 2,584kgs + 200kgs =2,784 kg. Assume 10% towball weight = 278kgs.

After attaching van, assuming extra 140% of towball transferrred to the rear axle = 389kgs.
There rear axle load when van is attached = 1,429 + 389 kgs = 1,818kgs. ie Greater Than Max Rating of the Rear Axle at 1,750kgs

At the assume loadings, things are ok by that caravan weight calculator but that calculator does not check rear axle ratings.
Any increase in loads will go further beyond those calculated here.
Again there were assumptions made about the load distributions.

A reality check needs to be done with actual axle loads for the vehicle and the van.

In the above calculations, without connecting, the vehicle is lighter than the van. Once connected, the loads on the vehicles wheels are 16% higher than the load on the vans wheels.

The calculations were done assuming no WDH. If a WDH is used, some of the rear axle load is transferred to the front axle. This would reduce the loading to the rear axle with a corres increase of load to the front ie a possible means to achieve a compliant loading for the rear axle.

-- Edited by watsea on Thursday 27th of March 2025 11:04:17 PM

Radar · Guru

Hi BurgerBob

Looking back though our weighbridge tickets, we have added somewhere between 600 & 650 kilograms to our tare weight when we are touring.

Greg 1 · Guru

I hate to say it BurgerBob but on the numbers you have stated I can tell you now that the van you are looking at is too heavy for that vehicle. As Radar said, once laden you add far more than you think and there is nothing worse than doing a trip stressing about whether you are legal or not. You do not want to be banging right on the limit either. So if you are absolutely sold on that van, buy another tow tug more suited to the task, or conversely find a lighter van.

Are We Lost · Guru

I agree. I believe it is highly unlikely you will be ready for travel with only 200kg in the van.

Being conservative, these figures are probably the minimum:
Pantry/fridge contents: 40
Cookware, eating, drinking, etc: 30
Bedding, towells, etc: 30
Clothes, shoes, etc: 40
Levelling ramps, power cords, hoses: 30
Toiletries, cleansers, related items, etc: 10
Outdoor chairs and table: 20

That is 200kg. Add 2 x LPG fills. Zero fresh water in the tanks? What about grey water and black water? Now up to another 100kg. Fishing/sporting gear, etc? A few tools? BBQ?

Remember, the Everest is already over the limit on the rear axle. Good policy would be to move as much as you can from the van to improve the tow vehicle/van weight ratio, but you can't.

The risk is not of being fined. It is the increased risk of a major accident.

If you don't intend to freecamp, why buy a van that is well set up to do so .... large inverter, plenty of solar and battery as well as water, including grey water. Save the money and weight.

Finally, the first three words of the topic title: "New to caravanning". That makes a substantial difference. If you had a couple of years and 20,000k of towing experience I doubt you would be posting this question.

-- Edited by Are We Lost on Saturday 29th of March 2025 11:35:39 PM

Peter_n_Margaret · Senior Member

"Legal" does not equal "safe"
Cheers,
Peter

watsea · Guru

Maybe the van sale was a result of what was said by the van sales person? Hmm.

Dougwe · Chief one feather

watsea wrote:
During the day, I did some websearches to check some of the Titaniums weight limits and capacities. After reading the previous posts, there seems to be a variety of values that are stated, depending on the source. For example, I have seen GVM = 3,100kg, GCM = 6,250kg or 6,200kg,
max TBW = 350kg, Max Braked Tow Capacity = 3,100 kg.
max rear axle load = 1,750kg
ie variable answers and different to others posts.

I suggest that BurgerBob refers to his Fords handbook and compliance plates to confirm the specifications for his vehicle.
Nonetheless, he cannot tow and be in compliance if he is to load his van to its rated ATM of 3,234 kg.
Once it is determined what is the handbook stated towing capacity, I think the rear axle load rating will be a further limiting factor. However, this can be worked on.

Are We Lost mentioned a Weight Distribution Hitch. I think that WDHs are worthwhile but one needs to check that an appropriate tow bar is fitted. Some OME towbars suffer cracking if a WDH is used. If a WDH is to be used, a suitable designed and strength towbar is necessary.

-- Edited by watsea on Thursday 27th of March 2025 12:19:18 AM

There used to be a member here that was far from a fan of the WDH but spoke very highly of the McHitch towing system, I think it helps with towing and the wobbles.

Southern Cruizer · Guru

Dougwe wrote:
watsea wrote:
During the day, I did some websearches to check some of the Titaniums weight limits and capacities. After reading the previous posts, there seems to be a variety of values that are stated, depending on the source. For example, I have seen GVM = 3,100kg, GCM = 6,250kg or 6,200kg,
max TBW = 350kg, Max Braked Tow Capacity = 3,100 kg.
max rear axle load = 1,750kg
ie variable answers and different to others posts.

I suggest that BurgerBob refers to his Fords handbook and compliance plates to confirm the specifications for his vehicle.
Nonetheless, he cannot tow and be in compliance if he is to load his van to its rated ATM of 3,234 kg.
Once it is determined what is the handbook stated towing capacity, I think the rear axle load rating will be a further limiting factor. However, this can be worked on.

Are We Lost mentioned a Weight Distribution Hitch. I think that WDHs are worthwhile but one needs to check that an appropriate tow bar is fitted. Some OME towbars suffer cracking if a WDH is used. If a WDH is to be used, a suitable designed and strength towbar is necessary.

-- Edited by watsea on Thursday 27th of March 2025 12:19:18 AM

There used to be a member here that was far from a fan of the WDH but spoke very highly of the McHitch towing system, I think it helps with towing and the wobbles.

Come to think of it Dougwe, could we both be thinking of the same person? I think he left the forum

watsea · Guru

Dougwe wrote:
watsea wrote:
During the day, I did some websearches to check some of the Titaniums weight limits and capacities. After reading the previous posts, there seems to be a variety of values that are stated, depending on the source. For example, I have seen GVM = 3,100kg, GCM = 6,250kg or 6,200kg,
max TBW = 350kg, Max Braked Tow Capacity = 3,100 kg.
max rear axle load = 1,750kg
ie variable answers and different to others posts.

I suggest that BurgerBob refers to his Fords handbook and compliance plates to confirm the specifications for his vehicle.
Nonetheless, he cannot tow and be in compliance if he is to load his van to its rated ATM of 3,234 kg.
Once it is determined what is the handbook stated towing capacity, I think the rear axle load rating will be a further limiting factor. However, this can be worked on.

Are We Lost mentioned a Weight Distribution Hitch. I think that WDHs are worthwhile but one needs to check that an appropriate tow bar is fitted. Some OME towbars suffer cracking if a WDH is used. If a WDH is to be used, a suitable designed and strength towbar is necessary.

-- Edited by watsea on Thursday 27th of March 2025 12:19:18 AM

There used to be a member here that was far from a fan of the WDH but spoke very highly of the McHitch towing system, I think it helps with towing and the wobbles.

The McHitch systems that I have seen put the towball point further behind a tow vehicle than an ordinary tow point. Hence the McHitch generates more load on the rear axle of a tow vehicle than the normal towball location. Probably around 160% as against 150% of the towball weight to the rear axle. Also, because the McHitch tow point is further behind the tow vehicle rear axle, there can be greater tendency for instability. How much, I cannot say.

I understand that the McHitch can help to making hitching up and disengagement of the caravan more easy. I cannot confirm that.

My recollections of a person no longer on this forum is that he certainly did dislike WDHs and also made comments against the McHitch system.

-- Edited by watsea on Monday 31st of March 2025 03:13:24 PM

Greg 1 · Guru

I run both a WDH and a McHitch auto loader. Yobarrs issue with the McHitch was not axle load because the actual bearing point on the car is exactly the same as a tow ball. His issue was that the pivot point of the hitch is at the universal joint which depending on where you measure it is 90 to 110mm rearward of a conventional ball. His claim was that it increased yaw and made the van unstable. I have now been towing with WDH's since the 70's and the McHitch for the last 9.5 years over 100,000ks. Firstly I swear by a properly adjusted WDH and am now so impressed by the McHitch I wouldn't use any other. Yobarrs claims of increased yaw are totally unfounded and it is just simply the easiest hitch system to use ever and I have used most of them at one time or another. I travel usually at 100kph and the van is quite stable and nice to tow for a van of the size and weight. But there is more to achieving a stable towing rig than just a hitch and a WDH. The van design itself coupled by how you load it plays a major part in attaining a good towing combination.

Are We Lost · Guru

watsea wrote:
My recollections of a person no longer on this forum is that he certainly did dislike WDHs and also made comments against the McHitch system.

He did not hold back on his criticism of them, partly on their weight but mainly on the extended distance from the rear axle.

I have never seen one, but pretty obviously the goal would be to have that distance as short as possible. But I don't believe the actual impacts are really that significant. It's the ratio between wheelbase vs rear axle to towball that determines what percentage of towball weight is added to the rear axle and subtracted from the front. From previous discussions I know you would be aware of those calculations.

For the exercise, and using the hypothetical 278kg towball weight mentioned earlier, I checked the figures for my Ford Ranger. The wheelbase is 3220mm and the rear axle to towball distance is 1270mm. That calculates to a load on the rear axle of 388kg (and 110kg lifted off the front). Using Greg's just posted 100mm distance that a McHitch extends that towball distance, the rear axle load would increase to 396kg, a difference of 8kg (and another 8kg lifted off the front).

For the Everest, the wheelbase is much shorter at 2850mm, so it would be affected more. The rear axle to towball distance would also be shorter but not commensurate with the shorter wheelbase. So that 278kg towball load would put more than 388kg on the rear axle, and an extra 100mm shank length would mean more than 8kg difference.

Apart from the increase in rear axle load, the additional length would be greater risk of sway developing. If the van is light to medium, I don't see much of an issue, but if the van is heavy, every extra kg and mm counts.

Edited to use Greg's posted 100mm additional length in the calculations.

Greg, as you may recall from previous discussions I am also a strong supporter of using a WDH if the towball load is significant. I would not leave home without it.

-- Edited by Are We Lost on Monday 31st of March 2025 04:29:38 PM

montie · Guru

Actually they can tow that van with the Everest, provided the measured weight of the van does not exceed the towing capacity of 3100kg

-- Edited by montie on Tuesday 1st of April 2025 11:16:14 AM