Not to forget that if it is not a Gazetted Road, for example my Land Rover drops to 750kg maximum towing, with or without brakes, & it has up to 350kg towball weight.
Gundog said
11:36 AM Oct 24, 2023
I could be wrong but I feel yobarr opinions come from real experience and the writings of a Mr Rivers.
Little nuggets like the tow vehicle must be heavier than the trailer, where is this published. But Toyota suggest the use of a WHD if the trailer is heavier than the tow vehicle.
10% ball weight, Ford limits one of its 3000kg towing capacity vehicles to a maximum towball weight of 250kg.
And I love this one, using a WDH is band aid. But some vehicl manufactures mandate their use for towing trailer over a given weight.
However what is quoted on various forums has no foundation law or regulations, it's all opinions, so who is correct, the ultimate authority is your vehicles owners manual, ADR's, compliance plates attached and instruction pertaining to devices you attach.
Just posting a random page or picture to prove your point, without quoting source, then it enters the white noise zone, its not an authority but an opinion.
yobarr said
04:49 PM Oct 24, 2023
Gundog wrote:
I could be wrong but I feel yobarr opinions come from real experience and the writings of a Mr Rivers.
Little nuggets like the tow vehicle must be heavier than the trailer, where is this published. But Toyota suggest the use of a WHD if the trailer is heavier than the tow vehicle.
10% ball weight, Ford limits one of its 3000kg towing capacity vehicles to a maximum towball weight of 250kg.
And I love this one, using a WDH is band aid. But some vehicl manufactures mandate their use for towing trailer over a given weight.
However what is quoted on various forums has no foundation law or regulations, it's all opinions, so who is correct, the ultimate authority is your vehicles owners manual, ADR's, compliance plates attached and instruction pertaining to devices you attach.
Just posting a random page or picture to prove your point, without quoting source, then it enters the white noise zone, its not an authority but an opinion.
Graham, could I say that I'm puzzled why you've chosen to resurrect a thread that is almost 2 months old, and I'm not suggesting that you have a poor memory, but ALL of the points you queried have been covered extensively in the recent past, some only yesterday.
1) The tow vehicle must be heavier than the trailer ..
This has been explained myriad times, but just for you, here we go, again.
The law states that if a vehicle has a GVM of 4500kg or above, any PIG trailer it tows MUST always weigh less than the tow vehicle.
This sometimes necessitates putting cargo into the tow vehicle to make it heavier than the trailed load.
"Why is it so" you might ask, and the answer is simple. Minimises chances of the "Tail wagging the Dog", which is prevalent when towing big caravans with toy cars.
The sooner such a law is introduced for ALL tow vehicles, the safer we all will be.
2) 10% ball weight. Ford limits one of its 3000kg towing vehicles to a maximum towball weight of 250kg.
This was discussed just yesterday, but for your benefit I will iterate that this limit is imposed simply because they know that, with a 300kg ball weight, the rear axle carrying capacity is likely to be exceeded. Overloaded. Unsafe. Uninsured.
Pajero is similar, but worse, with 180kg maximum ball weight above 2500kg ATM. Spare me, 6% towball weight on a lightweight car towing 3000kg. And people go "Duuuuhhhh, dunno wot 'appened Mate" when it all falls over.
3) WDH is a bandaid. But some manufacturers mandate their use .
Of course they do! The simple explanation for this is contained in my post above. Pathetically low rear axle capacity.
Once again, for your benefit, I will say that, in my opinion, manufacturers mandate the use of WDHs in an effort to compensate for the inadequacies of their vehicles.
Instead of messing around adding bits and pieces (and expense) in an effort to get their buzz-boxes to tow big weights, people who wish to tow heavier vans would do well to purchase a more suitable vehicle instead.
Many buzz-boxes with 3000-3500kg tow ratings have rear axle ratings well under 1900kg, some down to 1600kg, which is pathetic, and dangerous. My car has a FACTORY rear axle rating of 2300kg. Do it once. Do it well.
The screen shot that you've posted originally was shown by me in an effort to help people understand how to set up their car and van, with emphasis being on highlighted points 1,3 and 4.
Always I try to help people understand weights and set up their car and van for safe travelling, but if readers choose to continually dispute or ignore the simple truths there is little more that I can do. In the face of all adversity I can but struggle on.
Sincerely, I hope that this all helps you Graham, but you'll never learn if you make no effort to absorb the details provided and continually challenge factual information. Have a great day. Cheers.
If all else fails, always remember "Ignorance is Bliss. (Thomas Gray, 1742)
-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 24th of October 2023 04:52:32 PM
Gundog said
06:55 PM Oct 24, 2023
yobarr wrote:
Gundog wrote:
I could be wrong but I feel yobarr opinions come from real experience and the writings of a Mr Rivers.
Little nuggets like the tow vehicle must be heavier than the trailer, where is this published. But Toyota suggest the use of a WHD if the trailer is heavier than the tow vehicle.
10% ball weight, Ford limits one of its 3000kg towing capacity vehicles to a maximum towball weight of 250kg.
And I love this one, using a WDH is band aid. But some vehicl manufactures mandate their use for towing trailer over a given weight.
However what is quoted on various forums has no foundation law or regulations, it's all opinions, so who is correct, the ultimate authority is your vehicles owners manual, ADR's, compliance plates attached and instruction pertaining to devices you attach.
Just posting a random page or picture to prove your point, without quoting source, then it enters the white noise zone, its not an authority but an opinion.
Graham, could I say that I'm puzzled why you've chosen to resurrect a thread that is almost 2 months old, and I'm not suggesting that you have a poor memory, but ALL of the points you queried have been covered extensively in the recent past, some only yesterday.
1) The tow vehicle must be heavier than the trailer .. What a load of rubbish you cannot extrapolate a law for GVM for vehicles over 4500kg for those under that number, again it's opinion no fact, Hence Toyota advise using a WDH when towing a trailer heavier than the tow vehicle.
This has been explained myriad times, but just for you, here we go, again.
The law states that if a vehicle has a GVM of 4500kg or above, any PIG trailer it tows MUST always weigh less than the tow vehicle.
This sometimes necessitates putting cargo into the tow vehicle to make it heavier than the trailed load.
"Why is it so" you might ask, and the answer is simple. Minimises chances of the "Tail wagging the Dog", which is prevalent when towing big caravans with toy cars.
The sooner such a law is introduced for ALL tow vehicles, the safer we all will be.
2) 10% ball weight. Ford limits one of its 3000kg towing vehicles to a maximum towball weight of 250kg.Another attempt to make up a response when you dont know the the truth, I know the real reason It's because the Manual can tow 3000kg but the Automatic can tow only 2500kg both vehicles use the same HD towbar where the id plate lists the TBW limit to 250kg.
This was discussed just yesterday, but for your benefit I will iterate that this limit is imposed simply because they know that, with a 300kg ball weight, the rear axle carrying capacity is likely to be exceeded. Overloaded. Unsafe. Uninsured.
Pajero is similar, but worse, with 180kg maximum ball weight above 2500kg ATM. Spare me, 6% towball weight on a lightweight car towing 3000kg. And people go "Duuuuhhhh, dunno wot 'appened Mate" when it all falls over.
3) WDH is a bandaid. But some manufacturers mandate their useAgain no facts just opinion. .
Of course they do! The simple explanation for this is contained in my post above. Pathetically low rear axle capacity.
Once again, for your benefit, I will say that, in my opinion, manufacturers mandate the use of WDHs in an effort to compensate for the inadequacies of their vehicles.
Instead of messing around adding bits and pieces (and expense) in an effort to get their buzz-boxes to tow big weights, people who wish to tow heavier vans would do well to purchase a more suitable vehicle instead.
Many buzz-boxes with 3000-3500kg tow ratings have rear axle ratings well under 1900kg, some down to 1600kg, which is pathetic, and dangerous. My car has a FACTORY rear axle rating of 2300kg. Do it once. Do it well.
The screen shot that you've posted originally was shown by me in an effort to help people understand how to set up their car and van, with emphasis being on highlighted points 1,3 and 4.
Always I try to help people understand weights and set up their car and van for safe travelling, but if readers choose to continually dispute or ignore the simple truths there is little more that I can do. In the face of all adversity I can but struggle on.
Sincerely, I hope that this all helps you Graham, but you'll never learn if you make no effort to absorb the details provided and continually challenge factual information. Have a great day. Cheers.
If all else fails, always remember "Ignorance is Bliss. (Thomas Gray, 1742)
-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 24th of October 2023 04:52:32 PM
yobarr said
07:57 PM Oct 24, 2023
Graham I'm not even going to bother to try to counter the tripe you've written as you obviously have only looked at what I've posted, and not actually read and understood it. Sad really.
But, briefly:-
1) Do you not understand that the same physics applies to all vehicles, regardless of their size. (GVM)
2) You're playing games here. The fact that both these cars use a towbar with max towball weight of 250kg, but their respective transmissions dictate towing capacity has absolutely NOTHING to do with the subject at hand.
3) You obviously neglected to read my post. Did you not see that, in the second paragraph, I wrote "In my opinion".
You responded cleverly by saying my post was "Again, no facts. Just Opinion"Really?
Not to forget that if it is not a Gazetted Road, for example my Land Rover drops to 750kg maximum towing, with or without brakes, & it has up to 350kg towball weight.
I could be wrong but I feel yobarr opinions come from real experience and the writings of a Mr Rivers.
Little nuggets like the tow vehicle must be heavier than the trailer, where is this published. But Toyota suggest the use of a WHD if the trailer is heavier than the tow vehicle.
10% ball weight, Ford limits one of its 3000kg towing capacity vehicles to a maximum towball weight of 250kg.
And I love this one, using a WDH is band aid. But some vehicl manufactures mandate their use for towing trailer over a given weight.
However what is quoted on various forums has no foundation law or regulations, it's all opinions, so who is correct, the ultimate authority is your vehicles owners manual, ADR's, compliance plates attached and instruction pertaining to devices you attach.
Just posting a random page or picture to prove your point, without quoting source, then it enters the white noise zone, its not an authority but an opinion.
Graham, could I say that I'm puzzled why you've chosen to resurrect a thread that is almost 2 months old, and I'm not suggesting that you have a poor memory, but ALL of the points you queried have been covered extensively in the recent past, some only yesterday.
1) The tow vehicle must be heavier than the trailer ..
This has been explained myriad times, but just for you, here we go, again.
The law states that if a vehicle has a GVM of 4500kg or above, any PIG trailer it tows MUST always weigh less than the tow vehicle.
This sometimes necessitates putting cargo into the tow vehicle to make it heavier than the trailed load.
"Why is it so" you might ask, and the answer is simple.
Minimises chances of the "Tail wagging the Dog", which is prevalent when towing big caravans with toy cars.
The sooner such a law is introduced for ALL tow vehicles, the safer we all will be.
2) 10% ball weight. Ford limits one of its 3000kg towing vehicles to a maximum towball weight of 250kg.
This was discussed just yesterday, but for your benefit I will iterate that this limit is imposed simply because they know that, with a 300kg ball weight, the rear axle carrying capacity is likely to be exceeded. Overloaded. Unsafe. Uninsured.
Pajero is similar, but worse, with 180kg maximum ball weight above 2500kg ATM. Spare me, 6% towball weight on a lightweight car towing 3000kg. And people go "Duuuuhhhh, dunno wot 'appened Mate" when it all falls over.
3) WDH is a bandaid. But some manufacturers mandate their use .
Of course they do! The simple explanation for this is contained in my post above. Pathetically low rear axle capacity.
Once again, for your benefit, I will say that, in my opinion, manufacturers mandate the use of WDHs in an effort to compensate for the inadequacies of their vehicles.
Instead of messing around adding bits and pieces (and expense) in an effort to get their buzz-boxes to tow big weights, people who wish to tow heavier vans would do well to purchase a more suitable vehicle instead.
Many buzz-boxes with 3000-3500kg tow ratings have rear axle ratings well under 1900kg, some down to 1600kg, which is pathetic, and dangerous. My car has a FACTORY rear axle rating of 2300kg. Do it once. Do it well.
The screen shot that you've posted originally was shown by me in an effort to help people understand how to set up their car and van, with emphasis being on highlighted points 1,3 and 4.
Always I try to help people understand weights and set up their car and van for safe travelling, but if readers choose to continually dispute or ignore the simple truths there is little more that I can do. In the face of all adversity I can but struggle on.
Sincerely, I hope that this all helps you Graham, but you'll never learn if you make no effort to absorb the details provided and continually challenge factual information. Have a great day. Cheers.
If all else fails, always remember "Ignorance is Bliss. (Thomas Gray, 1742)
-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 24th of October 2023 04:52:32 PM
Graham I'm not even going to bother to try to counter the tripe you've written as you obviously have only looked at what I've posted, and not actually read and understood it. Sad really.
But, briefly:-
1) Do you not understand that the same physics applies to all vehicles, regardless of their size. (GVM)
2) You're playing games here. The fact that both these cars use a towbar with max towball weight of 250kg, but their respective transmissions dictate towing capacity has absolutely NOTHING to do with the subject at hand.
3) You obviously neglected to read my post. Did you not see that, in the second paragraph, I wrote "In my opinion".
You responded cleverly by saying my post was "Again, no facts. Just Opinion" Really?