gas bottles

drongo & wendy · Senior Member

gas bottles

Basil Faulty · Guru

drongo & wendy wrote:

          Just a question on gas refills/change overs.
       my pop top has a 3.7kg bottle and wondering if change overs or refills are readly available.    or should i upsize to an 8.5 bottle   existing carrier is a snug fit for the 3.7.   we will be running mainly stove with back up for fridge
     what im really saying is can i get 3.7 changovers [wonder y i didnt say that at the start.]

Yes you can, but it depends where you go for your exchanges. However like all these things you won't get 3.7kg in your 3.7 kg exchange as those of us who have 9kg bottles know you only get 8.6kg on exchange.
Now me being a devious underhand tightwad (class 1) I went to Bunnings and bought adapters to fit my 9kg pol bottles that fit the autogas nozzles at the servos.... OK, OK CALM DOWN it is not illegal to do this if you fill the bottles while still secured to the vehicle, and for the purposes of the legislation a caravan or trailer is a vehicle. learnt this trick from a guy who flys a hot air balloon and uses heaps of LPG. A 9kg bottle filled with LPG at a servo Bowser costs about $8 to fill as opposed to the $30 or so if you exchange....

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Basil, I think it is illegal to use Auto LPG for any other purpose.
If for no other reason than the tax that is applied / not applied.
There is also some suggestion of serious risk because of the different composition. I have no idea if that is true or not.
Here is another discussion on this subject.

http://www.exploroz.com/Forum/Topic/5191/Auto_gas_for_Caravan_LPG_use.aspx

There were adaptors for this purpose available on E-Bay. They have all been withdrawn.

Can you find a link for us on the legislation? It would certainly be cheaper if it was legal.

To answer Drongo & Wendy's qustion, we use 4kg bottles and swaps are few and far between in the bush. They are more expensive than filling too.

Cheers,
Peter

-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret at 19:36, 2008-11-15

dave06 · Guru

fully agree with the 4 kilo bottles, you wont use that much gas just using the stove, ours lasts nearly two weeks alternating between wood fire and gas, we use the gas mainly for refrigeration

as far as the two gas types are concerned I know nothing of these compositions so I wont comment, but I thought they were the same stuff

Basil Faulty · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:

Basil, I think it is illegal to use Auto LPG for any other purpose.
If for no other reason than the tax that is applied / not applied.
There is also some suggestion of serious risk because of the different composition. I have no idea if that is true or not.
Here is another discussion on this subject.

http://www.exploroz.com/Forum/Topic/5191/Auto_gas_for_Caravan_LPG_use.aspx

There were adaptors for this purpose available on E-Bay. They have all been withdrawn.

Can you find a link for us on the legislation? It would certainly be cheaper if it was legal.

To answer Drongo & Wendy's qustion, we use 4kg bottles and swaps are few and far between in the bush. They are more expensive than filling too.

Cheers,
Peter

-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret at 19:36, 2008-11-15

Yes the offence would be one of TAX EVASION which makes the Autogas LPG cheaper. The automotive gas is supposedly more highly refined for a more constant "burn rate" where as LPG sold for camping can be propane, butane or both mixed together, I have seen the same truck top up the Autogas and LPG cylinders at my local servo. I'll try and find the legislation, this may only be legal in the ACT as we have some differing rules. I have been doing this for a while, and have been challenged a few times, one guy told me to cease and desist until he got approval from his "manager" and he came back and said 'yer sorry cobber it's ok if yer bottle is bolted on'....
Maybe a loophole I have discovered, but I know a few people doing it....

dave06 · Guru

as for the gas being "dangerous" I remembered last night, when I had my jammy's on and I was about to head into noddy land, when we (at the mates workshop) get a gas powered vehicle in for a service and we need to work on the gas side of things (not me but the mechanics involved) we take all our gas bottles down there and they "siphon off" the unused gas in the cars tank into our barby bottles

we have been doing this for years with no noticeable effect, I get about 300 sausages to the litre,

I beleive in what Basil is saying and I think he has found a loophole. the simple terminology is L.P.G. regardless whether it is burned in cars or stoves, I too have seen the truck top up both vehicle tank and bottle tank

I think "TAX" is the keyword here

brickies · Guru

Hi all I think for safety, Swap lpg cylinders are the way to go it does cost more but know that the required test are carried when required, if you have ever seen the results of lpg accident you wouldnt play arround with it . if you cant play safe dont play

Basil Faulty · Guru

dave06 wrote:

I think "TAX" is the keyword here

And is it not every Australians duty to minimise their TAX bill????

dave06 · Guru

talk about playing safe, we were at a gathering a fair while ago when the resident "know all" was present (isnt he always)

he proceeded to let all and sundry know that one may unscrew the valve of the gas cylinder in complete safety, his reason being that there is a "secondary valve" inside that would stop the gas escaping

despite all claims by us to the contrary, he proceeded to unscrew the valve, got down to about 3 - 4 turns when she blew, tearing the last of the threads out and sending a snow white plume of gas and icicles about 30 feet in the air, the noise was indescribable, the valve was never found, in its escape it cleared his head by a matter of millimetres, this was all within 20 feet of a roaring fire

the brother in law does this "swap" thing and I find it extremely expensive and a lot of places they and we go dont have them, prefer to do the refill thing and renew the gas bottles or have them checked every ten years, the cylinders are inertly safe, they are over engineered and if treated correctly will give in excess of 30 years service, leakage is the biggest danger

as for the "T" word, I do wish you wouldnt swear so much Basil

Basil Faulty · Guru

Intersting segment on MYTHBUSTERS a while ago trying to prove the myth that full LPG cylinders explode if hit by projectile or cause massive explosions when an LPG powered car is in an accident. Basically they had little luck getting LPG cylinders to explode hollywood style. They had an "expert" virtually cut a full cylinder in half with a birst from an M60 (no tracer ) and the gas escaped with a roar but alas no explosion... to get one to explode they had to actually put some explosive on the cylinder and detonate it....
If anyone is going to take the valve out of a full LPG bottle near a naked flame like Daves mate did can you let me know so that I can not be near it!!!!
Liquefacation pressure for LPG is around 100psi.
Yep it is dangerous stuff but it is more dangerous to be driving on the open road at any time, like most things in life it's all relative.

dave06 · Guru

yeah! but it's not only lpg bottles, when I was first man in the refinery at the smelters I was the crane operator, had to lift all sorts of things that were of course unknown to me, whistles and or hand signals was all I got

I lifted this load for a couple of maintenence fitters, got about 15 feet up heard a hell of a roar and seen people diving for cover and then a hell of a thump followed by a great swag of dust and what looked like steam

it was a full acetylene bottle attached by steel rope (illegal lift), slipped out, hit the ground snapped the valve and took off, bound off the concrete and hit a 12" "I" beam post that was holding the shed up, actually bent the outer side of it, she hit with that much pressure

I was suspended from duty for 2 shifts with pay (big deal) the offsider who attached the bottle got his d.c.m.

Smokeydk · Guru

Hi...
As a Firefighter for 25 years....I've seen many car accidents with LPG involved.
I've seen a falcon ute have its roof ripped off.landing 200mtrs away...the ute was fully involved with fire. I've seen a car traveling along the Victor Harbor rd...burst in a ball of flame killing all on board..I've seen houses blown apart from exploding LPG BBQ cylinders overheating.

"So PLEASE I BEG YOU ALL DON'T PLAY WITH LPG..IT WON'T RESPECT YOU"

Dave

brickies · Guru

well said thats what i have been thinking has firefighter of 36 years i think most of you guys need to have a bit more respect for lpg

dave06 · Guru

fellers, I have the greatest respect for l.p.g. and would advocate absolutely nothing but safe handling, a theory was put forward and it is in the process of being "bounced around"

if you are refering to "the idiot" unleashing the valve on the gas bottle, I think it is quite clear there that I did not approve of his behaviour, if it is the supposed mixing of two gases, I dont see any where where we were "playing" with it

I too have attended carnage caused by gas bottle explosions, car and caravan, there was a spate of them in the late 70's early 80's if I recall. there is no-one here that would respect the power that is in holding within a bottle of gas any more than myself

if I put an idea forward that involves disrespecting gas bottles then I cant see it, maybe the reference of the dangers of mixing the two gases, which I dont think exists

if you take your bottle to be refilled, the feller at the station will check the date stamp on the bottle and if it is still current he will refill it, if it is not he will not refill it

Gary and Kerry · Guru

Found these photos from an incident report at work from a few years ago. Not a LPG cyclinder but acetylene., however, the outcome would be the same. Occured in 2003 in Newcastle NSW.
The driver had left a cylinder inside the cabin, unknown to him it was leaking.
When he re-entered the car and placed his mobile phone into the holder up she went. He escaped with minor injuries, very lucky man.

Ole Grizzly · Senior Member

After viewing them two photos, I am going to practise the old rubbing two sticks together method.
Frightening images.

Smokeydk · Guru

Hey Griz ....couple more for you

Dave

dave06 · Guru

fellers, on the way down to victor harbour we came across a scene of carnage that would put any of those photos to shame and not a gas bottle to be seen, it involved 4 youths, a suburu imprezza, a stobie pole and an estimated speed of 160 kph

vehicle unrecognisable, kids unrecognisable, all dead strewn along the road in various peices, vehicle looked like it had been shredded, scattered for an estimated half a kilometre

the memories still haunt me today, nightmares continue, I still see the parents faces as they came upon the scene, that is one of many that I attended,

horror pics can be found anywhere, about anything, but the memorys, for me after years of s.e.s. and c.f.s. vollunteering on many accident scenes and fires make it very hard to look at.

yes gas bottles can be "dangerous" but treated with a little respect the risks are few and far between, thousands, if not million's are carried all over the world in all sorts of position's and with very few accidents, they are one of the most safest forms of container available, far more dangerous to carry petrol in a paper thin fuel tank suspended under a vehicle capable of 200kph, or a jerry can with nothing but a bit of webbing holding them in

Basil Faulty · Guru

dave06 wrote:

fellers, on the way down to victor harbour we came across a scene of carnage that would put any of those photos to shame and not a gas bottle to be seen, it involved 4 youths, a suburu imprezza, a stobie pole and an estimated speed of 160 kph

vehicle unrecognisable, kids unrecognisable, all dead strewn along the road in various peices, vehicle looked like it had been shredded, scattered for an estimated half a kilometre

the memories still haunt me today, nightmares continue, I still see the parents faces as they came upon the scene, that is one of many that I attended,

horror pics can be found anywhere, about anything, but the memorys, for me after years of s.e.s. and c.f.s. vollunteering on many accident scenes and fires make it very hard to look at.

yes gas bottles can be "dangerous" but treated with a little respect the risks are few and far between, thousands, if not million's are carried all over the world in all sorts of position's and with very few accidents, they are one of the most safest forms of container available, far more dangerous to carry petrol in a paper thin fuel tank suspended under a vehicle capable of 200kph, or a jerry can with nothing but a bit of webbing holding them in

Yep Stobie poles are more dangerous than LPG cylinders, I remember with some amusement on a trip to Victor Harbour a few years back sitting back watching 2 teenage girls squirting each other with a hose and a guy comes along towing a van who also spyed the "floorshow" and drove straight into the granddaddy of all stobies and wrecked his car while his mind was diverted by the floorshow.