Snakes,all flavours,protected.. Whats all this ???

Gerty Dancer · Guru

RE: Snakes,all flavours,protected.. Whats all this ???

Sheba · Guru

Let's have some common sense people. No one is saying don't kill one if it's an obvious threat.

However, as I've said earlier, too many people have a "kill regardless" mentality.

Much as I've hated to have to do it, I have on occasion had to kill a few, but never just because it's a snake.

Cheers,

Sheba.

-- Edited by Sheba on Wednesday 23rd of November 2011 06:59:27 PM

JRH · Guru

Sheba wrote:
Let's have some common sense people. No one is saying don't kill one if it's an obvious threat.
However, as I've said earlier, too many people have a "kill regardless" mentality.
Much as I've hated to have to do it, I have on occasion had to kill a few, but never just because it's a snake.
Cheers,
Sheba.

-- Edited by Sheba on Wednesday 23rd of November 2011 06:59:27 PM

Well said Sheba.

sucastja · Senior Member

I am absolutely petrified of snakes - a result of the fear being drummed into me a a kid. I'm happy to leave well enough alone - and they've always left me alone too. I am very vigilent in warmer weather and try to avoid areas where they might be

JRH · Guru

sucastja wrote:
I am absolutely petrified of snakes - a result of the fear being drummed into me a a kid. I'm happy to leave well enough alone - and they've always left me alone too. I am very vigilent in warmer weather and try to avoid areas where they might be

The only way to go Sue.

Vic · Guru

johnq wrote:
Why would it be illegal?
................................................................
Because all species of snake are protected by various state laws in all states, a google will bring the laws up for each state if you wish to search further.
In the case of dugites in WA, see this link;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dugite

-- Edited by Vic on Wednesday 23rd of November 2011 07:43:00 PM

NeilandRaine · Guru

rredbeak wrote:
Wheres the pic taken Raine?

Ozi2,
Bet you choose your spots now LOL..

Main Street of Darwin

johnq · Guru

You might correct me if I am wrong but where does it say that you are not permitted to kill a snake that poses a threat?

This is not about assuming moral high ground. It is about establishing simple facts. It is wrong for anyone to create the strawman argument that a Simpson's 'whacking day' is proposed, or that anyone would not have regard for wildlife when that is the direct opposite of what all have said throughout this thread.

The issue is simply can a snake be legally killed where it constitutes a threat as given in the example I commented on, which was a snake in the convenience block? As far as I am aware the answer is legally yes. Further, a person need not get police or ranger 'approval' to do that, or have a gaggle of lawyers in the hip pocket.

Next, I observed that while well-intentioned people might try to 'relocate' a snake this was likely to result in the death of the snake or another, simply because available niches are not unoccupied in the wild. Also, I suspect that many snake bites come from people trying to do just that, remove snakes to elsewhere. That is another reason not to do it.

Vic · Guru

johnq wrote:
You might correct me if I am wrong but where does it say that you are not permitted to kill a snake that poses a threat?

..............................................................................................
I can only see where it says you can't kill them because they are protected, nothing about if's and but's.
By the way, I was the caretaker that killed that snake and was told by the off site council ranger that it was illegal but in the circumstances as we couldn't get in contact with the approved snake catcher to use my own judgement, which I did. That didn't mean that what I did was legal, on the contrary.
If you can find something that says it is legal to kill them if they pose a threat, let's know, I couldn't.

rredbeak · Senior Member

well,its clear im definately WRONG Folks. in the open not affecting anyone then simply follow the rules HERE in this thread. Stop,Walk Backwards,turn and walk away. Dont kill as a first reaction.

Ive been wrong lots in life and nothings changed ROFL.

Self defence or a threat then if at all possible get a qualified person to choose what to do.

When i said earlier about a perfect world it was wishfull thinking not belittling our wildlife.

Cheers Rod

johnq · Guru

Vic wrote:
johnq wrote:
You might correct me if I am wrong but where does it say that you are not permitted to kill a snake that poses a threat?

..............................................................................................
I can only see where it says you can't kill them because they are protected, nothing about if's and but's.
By the way, I was the caretaker that killed that snake and was told by the off site council ranger that it was illegal but in the circumstances as we couldn't get in contact with the approved snake catcher to use my own judgement, which I did. That didn't mean that what I did was legal, on the contrary.
If you can find something that says it is legal to kill them if they pose a threat, let's know, I couldn't.

Vic,

Here you go,

"It is illegal to attempt to harm native wildlife (though it is legal to kill a snake that poses a threat to people or pets)."

http://www.wildlife.org.au/wildlife/livingwithwildlife/encounters.html

If anyone wants sources saying that relocation of animals is not a solution, or that you could be fined just as easily for attempting to relocate an animal, that is easy peasy too. As a matter of fact the linked site is one such.

No one here has expressed the desire to wilfully destroy wildlife. However to take the example of a manager of a facility like changing sheds, one would be failing in one's duty of care if a known dangerous threat was permitted to continue without effective remedy (which wouldn't be a sign saying please step around the large Eastern Brown).

-- Edited by johnq on Wednesday 23rd of November 2011 10:49:46 PM

Vic · Guru

johnq wrote:
"It is illegal to attempt to harm native wildlife (though it is legal to kill a snake that poses a threat to people or pets)."
http://www.wildlife.org.au/wildlife/livingwithwildlife/encounters.html
I couldn't find that on the link you gave John, but I did find this article by a newspaper columnist, you may well be right, if so I stand corrected;
http://www.theherald.com.au/blogs/jeff-corbett/killing-snakes/1928420.aspx

johnq · Guru

Vic wrote:
johnq wrote:
"It is illegal to attempt to harm native wildlife (though it is legal to kill a snake that poses a threat to people or pets)."
http://www.wildlife.org.au/wildlife/livingwithwildlife/encounters.html
I couldn't find that on the link you gave John, but I did find this article by a newspaper columnist, you may well be right, if so I stand corrected;
http://www.theherald.com.au/blogs/jeff-corbett/killing-snakes/1928420.aspx

Vic,

You have to drill down in the site I gave but having done so, when the link is posted it reverts to the general one I posted. It is a nuisance.

It is concerning that well-meaning animal lovers might attempt to relocate wildlife or prevail on others around them to do so, not realising the risks and believing that no other solution is possible.

Also, the prevailing myth of harmless 'relocation' is not based on any scientific fact and needs to be dispelled. It is a recipe for slow death by starvation. That is the stated reason why councils will not for instance, permit brushtail possums that have been removed from the roof space of homes to be moved outside of their territory where caught before being released.

-- Edited by johnq on Thursday 24th of November 2011 01:14:26 PM

JRH · Guru

johnq wrote:
Vic wrote:
johnq wrote:
"It is illegal to attempt to harm native wildlife (though it is legal to kill a snake that poses a threat to people or pets)."
http://www.wildlife.org.au/wildlife/livingwithwildlife/encounters.html
I couldn't find that on the link you gave John, but I did find this article by a newspaper columnist, you may well be right, if so I stand corrected;
http://www.theherald.com.au/blogs/jeff-corbett/killing-snakes/1928420.aspx
Vic,
You have to drill down in the site I gave but having done so, when the link is posted it reverts to the general one I posted. It is a nuisance.
It is concerning that well-meaning animal lovers might attempt to relocate wildlife or prevail on other around them to do so, not realising the risks and believing that no other solution is possible.
Also, the prevailing myth of harmless 'relocation' is not based on any scientific fact and needs to be dispelled. It is a recipe for slow death by starvation. That is the stated reason why councils will not for instance, permit brushtali possums that have been removed from the roof space of homes to be moved outside of their territory where caught before being released.

The message is quite simple:- "Leave well enough alone"

Vic · Guru

Thanks John, I did do a scroll down etc but must have been looking in the wrong places/side menu etc. Never mind, I'll take your word for it.

Yes, re-location is an interesting topic isn't it, not much point re-locating if they are going to die anyway.

Anyway, I feel much better for having "despatched" that snake now knowing perhaps it was ok to do so, don't think I had much choice. When you have a pile of kids running in and out of the shower and toilet blocks you can't take a chance on them being bitten. smile

johnq · Guru

Vic wrote:
Thanks John, I did do a scroll down etc but must have been looking in the wrong places/side menu etc. Never mind, I'll take your word for it.
Yes, re-location is an interesting topic isn't it, not much point re-locating if they are going to die anyway.
Anyway, I feel much better for having "despatched" that snake now knowing perhaps it was ok to do so, don't think I had much choice. When you have a pile of kids running in and out of the shower and toilet blocks you can't take a chance on them being bitten.

I wouldn't like a death or a ruined holiday on my conscience.

In an increasingly litigious society you too could have suffered a whole new world of pain if anyone was hurt by or in avoiding the snake (eg slip on concrete). That is why remedial action has to be urgent.

Vic · Guru

Just found this link John, that pretty well sums up the killing bit;

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-reptile-discussion-42/killing-vens-legal-legal-debate-68048/

Hmmmm......Wombie might find this post on the same link interesting reading (being the licenced owner of snakes etc);

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-reptile-discussion-42/neighbour-killed-snake-153546/

-- Edited by Vic on Thursday 24th of November 2011 05:45:09 PM

johnq · Guru

The simple reason why the government environment management agencies are at pains not to mention that snakes can be destroyed where they present a risk is that they don't want the public to know. They don't trust the judgement of the public that pays their salaries which is rather poor. Similarly, various private (often charity) wildlife 'protection' and 'rescue' outfits do not want to talk about the downsides of animal 'relocation', or the suffering and often poor prognosis of 'rescued' injured animals for that matter.

It is regrettable that recent governments of all persuasions do not trust the public who elect them enough to give them information and in fact often withhold it instead. As well, advocates for particular views have been successful in promoting the political correctness that is the pestilence of modern times. That also ensures information is withheld where it doesn't suit political interests. As well, it protects the careers of some public servants and other hangers-on.

I have no horses in this race (and I am sure you don't either) other than to seek to ensure that the information available is factual and complete - unabridged. I am sure that people can usually be trusted to do the right thing where they are properly informed and the cause is legitimate. It is apparent from recent events that serious accidents have occurred where public-spirited individuals have tried to 'relocate' dangerous snakes that were a threat and it is highly probable they chose that action because they honestly believed from available government publicity that they had no other alternative ie they could be heavily fined if they did otherwise.

Vic · Guru

Well said and thought out John, hit the nail right on the head, good report.

Peterpan · Guru

I agree, pollies tend to think of us as not needing all the relevant information.