Hitch help

Scotty01 · Senior Member

RE: Hitch help

ozjohn · Guru

Unfortunately I agree with the majority of posters in that you really should be looking to upgrade to a more suitable tow vehicle.
And I'll guarantee that the TARE Mass of the van is more than stated by the manufacturer. They were renown for understating the TARE of their products.
Ozjohn.

Beth54 · Guru

Thanks guys, oops, and CG. As in the past when I've asked questions, your opinions are valuable to me.

I'll get back to you after I speak to the guys at Aranda today.

PeterD · Guru

snapper49 wrote:

. . . but be very wary at how much pressure you apply to the A frame of the van via the mounting brackets ie where the tension is taken up being a nipper your A frame will be very light in construction and will need under trussing to take the force applied by levelling devices

Also airbags shouldnt be dimiseed

The A-frame may be light but so is the rest of the van. What makes you think that the strength of the A-frame is not in keeping with the rest of the van. When you compare it with the ones on things like the great monster Boromas I think it is relatively much stronger. I doubt you will be able to overdo things with the bars I have suggested, they are only rated at 80 kg, which is in keeping with the ball weight.

I certainly dismiss air bags. They have a very non linear compression rate and get very hard near their their limit of compression. This action is what seems to be breaking the chassis of twin cab utes and damaging the upper spring mounts in some coil spring rear suspensions.

snapper49 · Senior Member

Speaks for itself and Ive seen a few and repaired same

PeterD · Guru

Beth54 wrote:

Does the tow vehicle normally drop a little or is it not supposed to drop at all?

The Nipper is theoretically 560kg tare, and 750ATM. The maximum ball weight of the car is 75. The car can tow 1200kg with a brake system. It doesn't say if that is self breaking or electric breaks. The Nipper is self breaking.

Firstly, I don't know what all the fuss is about the "everything must be level" idea that most people come out with. Most of those that stress this are the ones that will tell you that WDH is not necessary. They preach that all you need to do is to beef the rear suspension up to "get everything level." They know nothing about weight distribution. They also do not realise the multiplying effect of the lever action that will in most cases overload the rear axle. In fact most motor manufacturers do not warn you about that, Nissan is the only manufacturer that does and places restrictions on the carrying capacity of their vehicles at the higher loadings when towing (remember they recommend not using WDH on their vehicles.)

Looking back at Thom Olthoff's articles (it's a pity he has been sacked by the magazines for writing the truth) you will see he recommends the van be level or a little nose down. None of that "everything must be perfectly level" 5h1t. Rather than worrying about getting everything dead level you should worry about getting the ball weight spread evenly amongst the four tyres on the tug. Then you look to see if the van looks reasonable. That last statement means amongst other things that the rear of the van or the draw-bar will not drag on any of the road surfaces (gutters and speed humps) that you intend to drive over.

Beth, you will have achieved that when you get your WDH (a light weight one with sufficient capacity.)

"Does the tow vehicle normally drop a little or is it not supposed to drop at all? The answer to that is that any weight you put in your tug will drop it a little. Measure the height of the front and rear wheel arches. Then get a 70 kg passenger to sit in the passengers seat and remeasure. You will not get as much drop as that with your van (with WDH fitted) as the weight will be distributed amongst the LH and Rh wheels more evenly than a passenger sitting in the LHS.

Regarding your concern about the Nippers brakes, over-ride brakes are perfectly acceptable. The only time you will fall outside the law with them is when the van exceeds 2,000 kg, you must then have power brakes. The over-ride units on our nipper worked well. What you do have to watch is that there are no friction devices like shepherds crook bars or anti sway units that will impede the action of the over-ride coupling.

Regarding OJ's concern for the tare weight, there is a 640 kg difference between the stated tare of of the van and the tugs capability. You will be hard pushed getting more than 300 kg load in your van. I don't think the tare will be understated by 340 kg (61% extra.) Our Nipper had a tare weight labelled on the rear of the van in large letters. When I asked the agent why the rego tare was so much smaller he stated that this was to allow for the weight of the heaviest variant.

You will note that all those who say get a bigger tug have very large ones themselves. Please read between the lines. I too have towed with smaller vehicles. One was a Morris Nomad towing a 12' Franklin, it went well. The Nipper went well behind a Corona which has a max tow weight of 1,000 kg. I would have no worries driving your rig.

When you said you had no problems towing your camper I take it that included having your tug bottom out on obstacles on the road (speed humps etc.) Your van will not bottom out any less if you tow it with a larger vehicle. In fact if you lift your tow ball you are more likely to drag your vans step. Your weights come out on the right side of your tugs limits. You now know how to trim your tug. My advice is to get the WDH and go forth and enjoy the world.

Beth54 · Guru

What you've said is very interesting PeterD. I'll pass your comments along to the men in my family, who I'm also sharing advise with.

I've spoken to the fitter and the Engineer at Aranda and they say the rear of the tug doesn't sit too low. I suspect I, and my nearest and dearest, are used to 4WD's towing, thus we/they think it sits very low. (I'm the only one who doesn't have a 4WD. )

The towbar can't be altered 100 mm up, because of the structure of the car underneath, and they say it doesn't need to be. Rather, they say the drawbar on the Nipper is rather high if it's 100mm higher. They're suggestion is to change the hitch on the draw bar to under the bar, instead of on top, if you get my drift. This makes sense to me. I'd probably have to have that done professionally, I guess, to be legal. ??

They also advised changing vehicle would be a last resort, and not necessarily needed. The i30 is quite capable of towing the Nipper.

As to bottoming out, no, never. I take it very steady and carefully over speed bumps in servo's, and on gravel roads to avoid potholes etc. I don't plan on using CP's.

I also understand the need to distribute the load evenly.

Happywanderer · The Master

Good news Beth, might be sorted out a lot quicker and cheaper than it was looking. Yipee!

Beth54 · Guru

Yes, hopefully Marj.

Son has just messaged me to get it all weighed properly before making any desicions. So it looks like another trip to Tin Can Bay.

Travel Bug · Guru

Great news Beth!! smile

Looks like you get to keep your car after all!! Good result biggrin

wasn_me · Guru

It appears from your original post the major problem was not being able to fit the jockey wheel. A simple solution to this problem, is to get an old jockey wheel & cut the wheel assembly off the the bottom & weld a plate about 100mm dia in its place. This will give you 150mm extra clearance under the tube assembly. I camp off road a lot with a 4b' & van. I carry a modified jockey wheel for the situation where a can't fit a jockey wheel.

jimricho · Guru

wasn_me wrote:
It appears from your original post the major problem was not being able to fit the jockey wheel. A simple solution to this problem, is to get an old jockey wheel & cut the wheel assembly off the the bottom & weld a plate about 100mm dia in its place. This will give you 150mm extra clearance under the tube assembly. I camp off road a lot with a 4b' & van. I carry a modified jockey wheel for the situation where a can't fit a jockey wheel.

One can buy these already made up from a caravan/trailer/towbar place. I have one in addition to my normal jockey wheel and find it very handy. I have two attachment brackets on the drawbar so changing over from one to the other is simple.

Beth54 · Guru

jimricho wrote:
wasn_me wrote:
It appears from your original post the major problem was not being able to fit the jockey wheel. A simple solution to this problem, is to get an old jockey wheel & cut the wheel assembly off the the bottom & weld a plate about 100mm dia in its place. This will give you 150mm extra clearance under the tube assembly. I camp off road a lot with a 4b' & van. I carry a modified jockey wheel for the situation where a can't fit a jockey wheel.
One can buy these already made up from a caravan/trailer/towbar place. I have one in addition to my normal jockey wheel and find it very handy. I have two attachment brackets on the drawbar so changing over from one to the other is simple.

Can you give me a link or a picture please Jim. I can't picture what that is.

wasn_me · Guru

http://www.mycaravanparts.com.au/products/chassis-components/jockey-wheels/14-adjustable-stand-with-flat-base.aspx

wasn_me · Guru

Jim, I wasn't aware one could buy them already made up. They are handy when camped on slooping ground. Sometimes you can't get the drawbar low enough, with a jockey wheel, to level the van. I think it would also solve Beths problem.

Beth54 · Guru

wasn_me wrote:
http://www.mycaravanparts.com.au/products/chassis-components/jockey-wheels/14-adjustable-stand-with-flat-base.aspx

Thanks for the quick reply wasn_me. I'm sure that'll help with that part of the problem anyway.

PeterD · Guru

Beth54 wrote:
Can you give me a link or a picture please Jim. I can't picture what that is.

Or there is this one http://caravansplus.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=6968 - It gives you the choice of a plate or wheel at the bottom.

It also comes with a couple of brackets to weld on the van chassis behind the wheels and a clamp to attach to the leg to engauge with the brackets. You use these for wheel changing, a bit like the Trail-A-Mate, only cheaper and lighter, It's made for the smaller vans. The picture shows it lifting the side of a van.

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

Here is another one too Beth ... available on this website -

http://www.caravanshop.com.au/?Nav=Pdt&category_id=33&sub_category_id=89

Jockey Wheel-Stand.jpg

Cheers - John

Beth54 · Guru

Okay, I see how it works. I'm assuming I'll need to measure the height of the current one before deciding.

jimricho · Guru

Thanks folks for posting the links for me. If I remember (bit of a challenge!) I'll take a photo in the morning of how I have the two jockey "wheels" (maybe "strut" is a better word as only one is actually a wheel) set up.

Beth54 · Guru

Thanks Jim. That looks like a very sensible idea.

I'm putting it all on hold for the time being, as bil will be away from home for 6 weeks. We'll start again in August. I've also found out the closest public weighbridge to Tin Can Bay is Maryborough, which is about an hour away. That will also be an August job,,,hopefully it'll be dry by then. There's a lot of water lying around up there again.

Thanks everyone, for all your good advise.

-- Edited by Beth54 on Friday 1st of June 2012 04:08:46 PM

Beth54 · Guru

ROWDYRABBIT1 wrote:
iff you get a set of level rides from a trailer or speed shop that will fix your problem and also stop your van from bouncing,kangaroo hoping etc,and a lot safer rod

In what way does that differ to a weight distribution hitch Rod? Oops! Just answered my own question by googling. wink

-- Edited by Beth54 on Friday 1st of June 2012 04:29:32 PM

jimricho · Guru

jimricho wrote:
Thanks folks for posting the links for me. If I remember (bit of a challenge!) I'll take a photo in the morning of how I have the two jockey "wheels" (maybe "strut" is a better word as only one is actually a wheel) set up.

Here they are

ROWDYRABBIT1 · Senior Member

iff you get a set of level rides from a trailer or speed shop that will fix your problem and also stop your van from bouncing,kangaroo hoping etc,and a lot safer rod