Advice please

Robyn K · Veteran Member

Advice please

ozjohn · Guru

Most models have a max tow capacity betyween 2000Kg and 2800Kg with buses around 1500Kg.
Because a motorhome is fitted out and quite a bit heavier than a std Transit it may fall within the bus category.
Check the owners handbook for more info and if it'd not availabe contact the builder of the motorhome and/or Ford.
NOTE: For most models it says not to exceed 90KPH if towing over certain weights. Again check this out.
Cheers, Ozjohn.

Scotty01 · Senior Member

I tow a Suzuki Sierra behind my Merc/Jayco 2.2 turbo diesel with no problem at all. I tow it with a Hitch&Go Aframe. Echo with FWD and powersteering may not be suitable for aframe may need to lift front wheels at least off the road. Is it auto or manual?

Robyn K · Veteran Member

Hi Scoty01
It is a manual echo & we were thinking of the hitch n go system.
Thanks for your reply. What year model is your merc / jayco

Baz421 · Guru

Hi Rob & Steve

the correct and legal way is to look at the vehicle specs and the GCM - (Gross Combination Mass) ie weight of the tow vehicle and the towed vehicle, minus the GVM (Gross Vehicle Mass of the tow vehicle).

ie - as an example,,,,, say GCM of 5000 kg minus a GVM of 3500 kg equals a towing capacity og 1500 kg.

However, some manaufactures derate the towing capacity for a host of reasons,,, ie - towbar or chassis rating, the type of trailer or "thing" being towed and the type of braking sytem on the towed trailer or "thing".

Read the owners manual and if it's not CRYSTAL CLEAR in regard to your circumstances especially braking, weights, and towbar, write to the manufacturer.

GET ANY MANAUFACTURER'S RATING/APPROVAL IN WRITING and then go your insurance company and make sure they will cover you 100%.

Be careful with insurance,,, been there done that.

Cheers Baz

Scotty01 · Senior Member

Robyn my Merc is 2011 model. Check with Hitch & GO because i did read somewhere that powersteering makes a big difference to how you tow. I think the latest Echo's may have electric powersteering not really sure how that goes with flat tow. My Suzi dosnt have powersteering and being able to freewheel front hubs and transfercase in neutral makes it easy.

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Baz421 wrote:
the correct and legal way is to look at the vehicle specs and the GCM - (Gross Combination Mass) ie weight of the tow vehicle and the towed vehicle, minus the GVM (Gross Vehicle Mass of the tow vehicle).
ie - as an example,,,,, say GCM of 5000 kg minus a GVM of 3500 kg equals a towing capacity og 1500 kg.

Not quite correct.

The maximum legal towing capacity (provided the tow bar is adequate) is the GCM minus the ACTUAL mass of the towing vehicle (which may be somewhat less than the GVM).

In your example above, if the GCM is 5000kg, the GVM is 3500kg and the ACTUAL mass of the vehicle is 2800kg, then the maximum towed mass could be as high as 2200kg.

Neither the GCM nor the GVM may be exceeded and all the towing gear must be adequate.

Cheers,

Peter

Baz421 · Guru

HI Peter

I see what you are you saying but unfortuneately this may lead people to inadvertantly break the law.

It's not that simple and can vary from state to state although there is a push to standardise which has been going on since the ealy 1990's when I was involved with the legal side and changes to legislation and technical bulletins.

The quote below is from The National Caravan and Towing Guide:

QUOTE - Throughout Australia, the allowable maximum mass for the trailer is either the capacity of the tow vehicles towing attachment or the towing limit specified by the vehicle manufacturer for the towing vehicle, whichever is the least.
OR
If the vehicles manufacturer has not made a recommendation as to the towing mass, then the following rules apply:

A vehicle may tow a laden trailer of up to one and a half times the unladen mass of the tow vehicle, provided that the towbar is rated accordingly and the trailer is fitted with brakes that comply with the requirements stipulated in the Australian Design Rule ADR38.

If the trailer is not fitted with brakes, then the maximum mass must not exceed the unladen mass of the motor vehicle. The unladen mass of the vehicle can be found in the vehicles handbook, or check with your dealer.

All trailers with a GTM exceeding 750kgs must have brakes. END QUOTE

Most manufacturers do specify a maximum towing capacity (Ford does) so this should be used and a cursory glance at Ford Transit specs indicates that the towing capacity is in fact the GCM minus the GVM.

I do not know of any state authority that will let you exceed the Ford maximum towing capacity.

I hope this makes sense.

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Baz421 wrote:
I see what you are you saying but unfortuneately this may lead people to inadvertantly break the law.
It's not that simple and can vary from state to state although there is a push to standardise which has been going on since the ealy 1990's when I was involved with the legal side and changes to legislation and technical bulletins.
The quote below is from The National Caravan and Towing Guide:
QUOTE - Throughout Australia, the allowable maximum mass for the trailer is either the capacity of the tow vehicles towing attachment or the towing limit specified by the vehicle manufacturer for the towing vehicle, whichever is the least.
OR
If the vehicles manufacturer has not made a recommendation as to the towing mass, then the following rules apply:
A vehicle may tow a laden trailer of up to one and a half times the unladen mass of the tow vehicle, provided that the towbar is rated accordingly and the trailer is fitted with brakes that comply with the requirements stipulated in the Australian Design Rule ADR38.
If the trailer is not fitted with brakes, then the maximum mass must not exceed the unladen mass of the motor vehicle. The unladen mass of the vehicle can be found in the vehicles handbook, or check with your dealer.
All trailers with a GTM exceeding 750kgs must have brakes. END QUOTE
Most manufacturers do specify a maximum towing capacity (Ford does) so this should be used and a cursory glance at Ford Transit specs indicates that the towing capacity is in fact the GCM minus the GVM.
I do not know of any state authority that will let you exceed the Ford maximum towing capacity.
I hope this makes sense.

1. It is necessary to know the masses of both vehicles to know if you are legal, or not.

2. Towing limits are determined by the vehicle manufacturer and do not vary from State to State. All modern vehicles have towing capacities specified by the manufacturer.

3. Many light vehicles can use their full towing capacity (as specified by the manufacturer) when also at CVM, but this is not to be assumed and is not the case with many commercial vehicles.

My vehicle has a maximumum towing capacity of 3.5T, a GVM of 5.5T and a GCM of 7T, so it is not simply a matter of deducting GVM from GCM. to establish what is legal. The vehicle in question is a Ford Transit. All the appropriate information pertaining to that vehicle WILL be available, but the ACTUAL masses need to be known.

Cheers,

Peter

Baz421 · Guru

Well Pete

all I can say is you are repeating most of what I have already stated and quoted from the The National Caravan and Towing Guide.

Some of your advice is misleading and could encourage an inadvertant breach of legislation. I've seen this before as I was previously involved in vehicle standards legislation and interpretation of the legislation for dispute resolution.

By the way legislation for heavy vehicles above 4.5 tonnes GVM is generally standardised but NOT 100% under 4.5 tonnes GVM yet. I had a problem recently when moving interstate, so broad based statements are a poor way to provide advice on forums.

Anyway I'm backing out of this discussion - it's not authorative advice, and that is what is needed.

Cherio

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Baz421 wrote:
Some of your advice is misleading and could encourage an inadvertant breach of legislation.

Exactly which bit is "misleading" exactly?

Full and correct information is rarely likely to cause or "encourage an inadvertant breach of legislation".

Cheers,

Peter

Baz421 · Guru

Hi Peter

I don't like picking posts apart but since you seem to insist. You need to read what is written in all the posts as the legal side is fraught with "plays on words".

I posted a quote.

If you read that you will see one of the errors in your post - refer to unladen mass versus laden mass (not necessarily full GVM load).

If you keep referring to lowering the laden mass of the towed vehicle to achieve an overall weight withing the GCM, some people do this and stay withing GCM and GVM but inadvertantly exceed the towing capacity, ie an "empty" - read unladen mass situation and a very heavy van. There are hundreds on the road right now in this situation.

I have seen it in the real world.

I hope this satisfies your curiosity.

Cheers Baz

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Baz421 wrote:
I hope this satisfies your curiosity.

Nope.

I was not remotely curious.

Cheers,

Peter