Silent 2kVA Pure Sine Wave Inverter Generator

Wheelchair Nana · Veteran Member

Generators ????

oldtrack123 · Guru

Hi Nana
The suitabity of a generator & aircon are interwoven

First, the Surge capabity of the generator [& engine ]
Then the SURGE current required to start the air con

It is best to be sure that either:
[a]others have used the exact combination
or

You by from a dealer who will let you try the combinaition out, before buying

Peter

Kiwi-as · Guru

Hi Nana, i bought a 3.7 genny at auction on Ebay for $564. It runs aircon and water heater at same time.These units are good,several other nomads have them allready. I would advise going next size up, some aircons take a fair bit of power, especially at start up, as Peter has said. If you P M your contact details,i could tell you more.

TAJ · Senior Member

HI NANA we have a 2kva GENQUIP about $950 good guarantee runs aircon no trouble

pure sine wave

suenray

we dont have the best of everything we make the best of every we have confuse confuse

jimtulloch · Member

I would like to reccommend that you look at item No 370702095385 on Ebay. I purchased one of these from this recognised online store. It is truly remarkable. Electric and pull start, not that i have ever used either as it comes with a remote control for starting and stopping (from inside your van) it is a pure sine wave inverter generator,very very quiet,has wheels and a collapsible handle.Will run all you want in a motorhome. It has same technology as Yamaha and Honda. Price includes delivery regards Jim

4.4kVA Pure Sine Inverter Generator Power Portable Silent Petrol Camping Outdoor

Remote Electric Start w/ Digital Display! 1 yr wrty!

-- Edited by jimtulloch on Friday 18th of January 2013 09:29:28 PM

jimtulloch · Member

Yes agreed,it can certainly be said to be weighty . I am 76 and not the fittest person on the road,but I manage it OK. Then again it has a rating of 4.4Kw. The REMOTE start/stop feature I find to be absolutely great,even if that gives out there is still the Key operated electric start. Also charges its own battery which i find is a good feature. I had a Honda 2000W previously,good machine,but it wasn't electric start and that was sometimes a problem for my other half. Like all these extras,personal requirements differ.

-- Edited by jimtulloch on Friday 18th of January 2013 10:49:14 PM

Baz421 · Guru

Praelia advertised at 28kg weight. Gettin heavy to carry and lift it seems.

My Honda is heavy enough and another 8kg is a lot.

Baz421 · Guru

Looks like we have drifted of what Wheelchair Nana was asking so back to the subject.

I went on Alibaba - which is all things Chinese coming onto the market. I could see the shape of the generator you mentioned so all I could go on.

Looks like ex factory price China is US$100- upward depending on quantity ordered by retailers. The other generators by other manufacturers were generally 3 to 4 times the price for comparable stock. THIS SHOULD TELL YOU SOMETHING.

Maybe the generator you mentioned is a cheapie at the bottom end of the price range SO BEWARE.

If not sure buy a well known reputable brand that has the output you need. This can be worked out easily, but if you can't go to a Honda dealer and a Yamaha dealer and see if they say the same size generator for your application.

Then weigh up the risk price versus quality AND safety (electricution or fire).

Hope this helps. Baz

jimtulloch · Member

all things to consider. Yes it is Chinese manufacture with an unconditional 12 months warranty. There are various models looking very similar,like some are only pull start,some only 1.8Kw.I have no complaints so far after some 10 months use,and it does all that it claims to do.I paid from memory around $540,I see they now fetch $619 delivered. For the use it gets,I would accept if necessary replacing it once out of warranty at that price. I believe armchair nana was looking for comments re cheaper priced generators which prompted my answer as i have one.

oldtrack123 · Guru

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Saturday 19th of January 2013 06:36:54 PM

buffy61 · Senior Member

Thanks Jim... Was looking at them online and wondering how good they are! Might have to invest in one I think!
And I don't think this tread went off track!:)
Wheelchair was asking if other cheaper brands are good... Thanks for answering cos I was asking the same question!

jimtulloch · Member

having owned both,I would say that i cannot fault these Chinese ones. I know I have already mentioned this but the remote start/stop and the fact that it charges its own battery are an absolute plus for me. Having to pull start a motor is a bit much for me. Whilst there are quite a few that appear similar being offered on Ebay, this particular one had all the features. Depending on your power requirements of course, but 4.4Kw is a lot of power. In my case I run...T/v...Video...elect jug....toaster....microwave.....fridge.....lights....can run cooktop, oven,or air cond. Eqip with motors also microwave and air cond require quite a bit of start current, and too small a unit will either not run these things or could cause quite a bit of damage. As already mentioned, at the price...$619 incl GST and delivered,includes a 12 month warranty...I will be more than happy to replace if necessary once the warranty runs out at the price.

buffy61 · Senior Member

Guess that means it will fire up the hair straightener! Phew!
As 'he' said...I would not make a happy camper if I couldn't straighten my hair every now and then!!:)

Baz421 · Guru

I can only repeat part of my post of 18/1/13, ie apart from Wheelchair Nana's original query re the 2100W genny you need to evaluate the risk of purchase as stated by "allinone" on 19/1/13.

It's hard to quantify the risk of buying on ebay, and I'll give you a classic example. On Gumtree website someone was trying to "buy" an ebay sellers name with 100% satisfaction. I reported this and NOTHING was done about it,,, so again BUYER BEWARE

The fact that these generators appear to be at the lower end of the price range, even by Chinese standards, would be of concern to most people.

Then weigh up the risk price versus quality AND safety (electrocution or fire). Your choice.

-- Edited by Baz421 on Saturday 19th of January 2013 10:20:33 PM

oldtrack123 · Guru

jimtulloch wrote:
Thank you for your comment. I was quoting from the manual which stated to comply with Australian regulations that the generator should be earthed to ground using the ground terminal. My understanding is that given a van that is wired for 230v power has to have an electrical certificate, so any souce of supply would have to have an earth........ however i will bow to people who have more knowledge than me on this subject. And i appreciate your comment.

Hi Jim

A problem with manuals is that they are not country specific

Different systems , different rules ,regulations & standards in different countries

AS 3001;2008 specifically covers "Transportable structures & their site supplies" That covers tents ,vans ,campers ,motor home etc

It clearly states that with a portable generator "An earth stake is neither required or recommended" that also includes any other means of deliberately connecting to the general mass of earth!![ water pipe, steel structures,etc]

There are good technical reasons to follow that advise

So ,#1 point

DO NOT use an earth stake for your generator .inverter , van, camper ,etc

Now, how do all those happy generator users connect the generator /or inverter to those multiple appliances??

Peter

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Saturday 19th of January 2013 10:48:37 PM

oldtrack123 · Guru

Hi
Lots of happy generator users
Some appearing to run everything but the kitchen sink
I wonder how they connect those items, SAfELY???
Peter

.

jimtulloch · Member

Make sure the generator is connected to a ground (generator has a terminal for this) stake that in turn earths the van

allinone · Senior Member

Bought a 4Kva generator off eBay failed on delivery and was Unable to contact the seller even though I lodged a disput with PayPal. The seller gave me a delivery address that was a vacant block of land....

So I lost $600. It would not even power a 200w ac machine. It was repaired by another mechanic and then worked the ac and everything else in the van at The same time, but the battery would not charge and remote start would not work and it took 30 pulls to go....only premium unleaded was ever used....

It only just fitted in the door was heavy and it have now been given it away. I just use solar and a 300W invertor stay at CPs when needed.

jimtulloch · Member

sorry that you had a bad experience,certainly have got to re-assure yourselve as to the sellers credibilty,and make all the enquiries one can as to others experiences with different models and their reliability,perhaps you could post the make,model and seller for all to see. Do hope all is Ok for you now

KFT · Guru

jimtulloch wrote:
Make sure the generator is connected to a ground (generator has a terminal for this) stake that in turn earths the van

G'day jimtulloch,

mate what I have quoted you as saying(above) is not advisable or recommended by the regulations and standards that cover the use of these things.

better if you don't do that.

frank

jimtulloch · Member

Thank you for your comment. I was quoting from the manual which stated to comply with Australian regulations that the generator should be earthed to ground using the ground terminal. My understanding is that given a van that is wired for 230v power has to have an electrical certificate, so any souce of supply would have to have an earth........ however i will bow to people who have more knowledge than me on this subject. And i appreciate your comment.

Baz421 · Guru

4.2.3 Earth electrode

The connection of a generating set bonding system to the general mass of the earth through an

earth electrode is not required or recommended.

AS/NZS 3010:2005 Clause 4.2.3 states that earthing of plug and socket-outlet connected

generating sets complying with the principles of AS 2790 is not required or recommended.

Griff · Member

G'day Wheelchair nana, I don't think the 1000w product you are looking at will provide you the capacity to run your aircon and any other appliances at the same time. If you have an older aircon it will struggle to run just it alone. Even with a 2100W max capability it may cope for a while but eventually would overheat and fail soon after. There's no way you can build long term reliability at that price.

To get around the noisy generator and extra fuel cost you can get just an inverter that may suit your requirements if your solar system is capable of providing the power for it. I'd recommend you look at this site as a starter http://www.invertershop.com.au they appear to be made/assembled in Oz with a wide range and better still you could talk to them direct to get more info if needed.

Dave

oldtrack123 · Guru

jimtulloch wrote:
Thanks peter, that is sound advice coming from someone with the required knowledge. I of course do not pretend to answer for all the other caravan/motorhome users, but I would guess that a 15amp lead from the generator to the 240v van inlet plug would be most common means of connection. There would then be no connection with the earth then, meaning the earth (as in the ground) does not form part of the circuit as with domestic supply. Thanks to peter, Baz and KFT for passing on their knowledge on this subject, will be of great benefit to members.

Hi Jim

Yes, I believe that such a lead would be a common means, but so could an unapproved illegal, 10A to 15 A be in common use for those generators the only have a 10A outlet .

But I hope ALL such users are aware that the RCD [safety switch ] is not functional!

Due to this , it is a SAFETY RECOMMENDATION that only ONE Class 1 device [has a 3pin plug]be connected at any time.,when using an isolated, portable generator or inverter

The Van, camper, etc, itself becomes that ONE class one device

Any other connected class 1 device in the van encreases the risk of electric shock to earth ,should a fault develop anywhere in the van wiring or appliances to earth.[chassis ,frame ,etc]

The supply is no longer isolated from earth [chassis, .frame ,etc]

It is now the same situation as your home 240v supply system BUT without RCD protection.

Plug in RCDS, in any form ,do not correct the problem.

Note : multiple class 2 devices[have 2pin plugs] can be connected with a very high degree of safety from shocks to earth

peter

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Sunday 20th of January 2013 05:01:03 PM

jandas fun · Guru

Hi oldtrack, i'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, so need simple answers if possible.

1. why does the caravan RCD recognize the 240v power from say, a caravan park source (and is functional) and not a gennie?

2. most gennies have their own inbuilt AC DC circuit breakers, wouldn't these help?

Johnw

Edited to try and make my query clearer

-- Edited by jandas fun on Sunday 20th of January 2013 08:17:48 PM

-- Edited by jandas fun on Sunday 20th of January 2013 08:20:22 PM

-- Edited by jandas fun on Sunday 20th of January 2013 08:24:06 PM

jimtulloch · Member

Thanks peter, that is sound advice coming from someone with the required knowledge. I of course do not pretend to answer for all the other caravan/motorhome users, but I would guess that a 15amp lead from the generator to the 240v van inlet plug would be most common means of connection. There would then be no connection with the earth then, meaning the earth (as in the ground) does not form part of the circuit as with domestic supply. Thanks to peter, Baz and KFT for passing on their knowledge on this subject, will be of great benefit to members.

oldtrack123 · Guru

jandas fun wrote:
Hi oldtrack, i'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, so need simple answers if possible.

1. why does the caravan RCD recognize the 240v power from say, a caravan park source (and is functional) and not a gennie?

2. most gennies have their own inbuilt AC DC circuit breakers, wouldn't these help?

Johnw

Hi John
I'll try to explain as simple as I can but do not hhesitate to come back
[1]The van RCD recognises the mains power because the mains power has a line[neutral] to earth connection in the correct place for for a fault current to flow, this upsets the current balance in the RCD & trip the RCD
An early name for these devices was "earth leakage core balance circuit breakers' very descriptive of the operation
A standard of the shelf portable isolated generator does not /now must not have such a connection as the use of such has lead to deaths/shocks
It safety is dependent on being fully isolated from earth at all times,but should a fault develop betweew either line & earth it is no longer isolated & & is then the same as any 240V mains supply with no RCD
The safety "recommendation" posted earlier minimise such risks
[2]Yes, most generators do have"OVERLOAD"protection circuit breakers [OLCB]to prevent generator burn out due to overloads
These give NO protection against shock or electrocution
the safety conscious RVer has several options :
[a]follow the "safety recommendation'
have the generator PERMANENTLY wired & fitted with a RCD,this will actually remove the first line of protection[being a fully isolated supply but is still sfer in the long run
[c]Have the generator or the van fitted with a RVD/OLCB combo
This device works on a different principle to a RCD & keeps that first line of defence [an isolated supply]
[d]Have the generator pertmanently fitted & WIRED into the van wiring in accordance with the standards AS/NZS3001 [requires correct change over switching.]

Peter

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Sunday 20th of January 2013 11:41:56 PM

patrolst · Senior Member

Wheelchair Nana wrote:
Hi
We are totally Solar powered in our van but with the current heat and my health I have been investigating Generators. I know they are not user friendly but unless we either use caravan parks which we can't afford for more than a few nights or we give up trying to travel this beautiful country I see no other option. We nrver intend to use a generator full time just a couple of hours to run the air conditioner.
We where looking at the Honda 20uei unit but I have found on the web another unit at the third of the cost and the specifications appear to be the same as the Honda, I have included the details and link any advise would be greatly appreciated.
Silent 2kVA Pure Sine Wave Inverter Generator
This inverter generator unit is petrol powered and differs from cheaper units, in that the engine (which is built to the same design as the market leading Japanese brands) drives a DC alternator. A pure sine wave inverter then converts the DC to a stable pure sine voltage, suitable for appliances including sensitive electronics. No matter what the load is on the generator, the output remains the same.
The added benefit is that the petrol motor is far better matched to the load, reducing overall size, keeping engine speed in line with the load, reducing noise and increasing fuel efficiency.
It also uses a high-speed multi-point alternator that is integrated into the engine itself. This SWISS developed technology reduces the overall weight and size by 25% to 50% compared to similarly classed conventional models, making it very portable.
The generator is powerful enough to be used in a wide range of home, recreational and professional uses, whilst maintaining portability.
Features:
12 Volt DC Output for Battery Charging
Delivers great fuel efficiency
10 hours of continuous operation on a full fuel tank
Lightweight portable handle
Whisper-quiet operation from 53dB (A)
Unleaded fuel
1x 240Vac Outlets
2100w MAX
Technology:
12 Volt DC, 240 Volt AC can run appliances and charge batteries simultaneously
Delivers greater fuel efficiency on eco mode
Performance/Usability:
Whisper-quiet operation from 53dB (A) at 5 meters
Delivers better than commercial quality electricity
Lightweight 20 kg
Peace of Mind:
Engine is protected via low oil and overload alert system
http://www.rv4x4.com.au/silent-2kva-pure-sine-wave-inverter-generator.html
Thank you
Wheelchair Nana

I see on your link there is a phone number for the seller in S.A. why dont you try ringing them and view the product, they may have a demo that you could try on the A.C. I think if you have a supplier in your state it would be a lot easier for warranty and servicing, wether it is $200.00 or a $1000.00 its still a lot of money to be buying over the internet when you havent seen the product. I would check if it has a 15amp outlet to supply power to the van.

-- Edited by patrolst on Monday 21st of January 2013 11:02:29 AM

oldtrack123 · Guru

jimricho wrote:
oldtrack123 wrote:

[d]Have the generator pertmanently fitted & WIRED into the van wiring in accordance with the standards AS/NZS3001 [requires correct change over switching.]

Peter

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Sunday 20th of January 2013 11:41:56 PM
I bet there's very few (if any) vans/RVs wired to that configuration!

HI Jim

You may be surprised at how many are wired THAT way, especially with the heavier "portable generators that noone wants to be manhandling blankstare

But many are going for option [c] above

Having the standardVAN RCD changed to a RVD/olcb combo by a licensed electrician

No modifications required to generator ,simply plug in with an approved 15A<15A lead.

Gives excellant protection from shocks to "earth" on mains & generator supply via the power inlet socket.

ps: just remember the comments on generator safety also applies to inverters

They are 240v, they too can /have killed under the certain fault conditions

Peter

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Monday 21st of January 2013 11:07:16 AM

oldtrack123 · Guru

deleted double post.

Peter

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Monday 21st of January 2013 11:19:57 AM