Lithium Batteries

Robbiebago · Veteran Member

Lithium Batteries

beiffe · Guru

There are some of us using them but prefer not to give too much info on open forums.

They are lighter than a normal battery approx 15kg for 100AH

You get to use 80% of that so 80+AH from a 100Ah battery.

They are smaller in size so you can fit a lot more battery in the same size and then when you get extra power you can get a lot of power in the same compartment.

100Ah agm about $300 100Ah LiFePo4 about $500 so for usable Ah a little bit dearer but expected life cycle is 5000 cycles compared to about 700 for AGM (these are rough figures)

You get your power at 13V+ for full power available so no noticeable drop off.

I have 180Ah @ 24V LifePo4 batteries for house and 90Ah @ 24V crank batteries as well as my boat battery. These are able to be used for house power so in fact I have 270AH @24V which gives me over 200+Ah @24v for use as house and I will always have enough to start as even on flat they are 26V. to get 200Ah from AGM's you will need about 400AH@24 or 8 x 100AH batteries.

You can use larger loads as the batteries hold their voltage. I run a 2.4Kva inverter and run all appliances 240v including the 260ltr domestic fridge, aircon, water heater. induction stove, coffee machine and many other appliances that are a no no for AGM's etc.

You get more power from your solar as there are no stages , you put in as much as you can get till they are full so no float or absorb, it is bulk charge to 98% or there a bouts.

We have over 40 members using the batteries now and all are happy and quite a few more in the process of installing.

Because of the flack we have experienced on forums in using these batteries we have our own closed forum where all the info is available so PM me if you are serious an want more info.

Regards
Brian

coolabah1au · Member

Thanks brian sence meeting you we have joined terry group but having trouble with a lot of termongoly and upstanding how many batteries i would say we are very modest user i had solar put on a couple of years ago

when we bought the bus it had two alternators we had trouble in qld last year when the big agm died bought some corner store battery to get us back to Victoria but they have died too now

Been doing a lot of reading on all sorts of forum jest to get the gift of thinks

wayne Nini by. The way we meet you at Elmore on Australia day ok

Robbiebago · Veteran Member

As a follow up, we have gone ahead and bought Lithium batteries. We believe that it will be the best way to stay 'off the grid' for the longest time. We have just installed 32 solar panels on the roof of our 7m bus and are about to hook up the batteries.

Santa · Guru

I've contemplated lithium batteries for the Kea, after quite a bit of reading it seemed to me that the majority that go this way are a bit on the nerdy side.

For the time being I'm staying firmly in the deep cycle lead acid camp.

I'll let the early adopters sort out the wrinkles and buy in when the process becomes as simple as making a choice, does not involve any secret signs or handshakes and does not require me to take a course in electronics. biggrin

dorian · Guru

If it's good enough for a sports car ...

www.teslamotors.com/en_AU/roadster

"The AC induction motor and single speed gear box create instant torque from 0 rpm. Up to 295 lbs/ft of torque and 300 horsepower are produced as the car smoothly accelerates from 0 to 97 kph in 3.7 seconds."

Top Speed --- 201 km/h

"Custom microprocessor-controlled lithium-ion battery with 6,831 individual cells.

3.5 hour charge time from empty to full using the Tesla High Power Wall Connector at 240 Volts and 70 Amps."

Range --- 394 km
Expected battery life --- 7 to 10 years

-- Edited by dorian on Friday 23rd of August 2013 12:50:41 PM

beiffe · Guru

Santa you have been hood winked by the naysayers on the other forums but that is OK.
Thanks for calling me nerdy as I think that means I am intelligent and a forward thinker LOL
I enjoy the flexibility that my batteries give and I am happy for you to stay with yours but please understand some of us are prepared to try new technology.
Remember the time that the members of the media told APPLE that the thing he called a computer would never come common in the household, and I was berated once by a Boss that I had negotiated a deal to get in early on the rural computer network that worked on what we now call the internet, he thought it was a waste of time and would never take off.
Regards
Brian

Santa · Guru

beiffe wrote:
Santa you have been hood winked by the naysayers on the other forums but that is OK.
Thanks for calling me nerdy as I think that means I am intelligent and a forward thinker LOL
I enjoy the flexibility that my batteries give and I am happy for you to stay with yours but please understand some of us are prepared to try new technology.
Remember the time that the members of the media told APPLE that the thing he called a computer would never come common in the household, and I was berated once by a Boss that I had negotiated a deal to get in early on the rural computer network that worked on what we now call the internet, he thought it was a waste of time and would never take off.
Regards
Brian

Nothing personal in the nerd reference Brian, what I'm referring to is people who are prepared to read and understand large amounts of information about new technology.

I simply refuse to be an early adopter, have been caught in the past, I'm trying not to let it happen again.

The fact that information is only available to those who know the secret signs and passwords indicates to me that the transition from LA to Li is probably a little more complex than the average person is lead to believe.

We probably will reach a point where Li is the standard, of course by then there will undoubtedly be new technology knocking on the door and Li will be old hat.

El Gringo · Senior Member

Robbie, don't be put off by the critics.

From what I've seen on your blog you are more than capable of doing the install from scratch.

Your best bet is to PM T1 Terry and get him to assist you direct.

He is the accepted leader in the technology for RV use.

The only reason for not putting the info into public view is that he has done hundreds of hours of research and testing to come up with the right way to set up the system.

Why should all his hard work go freely into business hands so they can make heaps of money?

There are now lots of others with the Lithium Batteries and none of them have wished they didn't bother, every RV with these batteries is far better for it if installed correctly.

Cheers,

beiffe · Guru

Its Ok Santa as I have always been a person to get into technology even though I never worked in it till I got into IT later on in life.
Been called a nerd many times and it sits OK with me.
My bus was the first RV vehicle and used as the original test base and that was in about april 2011.
We had so much flack from people on other forums who should have known better and people who had interests in the other battery types who could see their market share being effected as they had no knowledge it what was being discussed. Check the caravan forum and put in lithium in the search engine and check the older posts and you will see what I mean. The old C**A one was the same.
These batteries are totally different to the old style batteries and give access to power not thought of before and also the ability to charge at a much faster rate.
T1 has done most of the research and is still the back bone of our forum but we also now have many experts in our group who are devising more ways to enhance the systems and also give insights into the advantages.
We are all different and besides if too many wanted to use the batteries our forum would get too hard to manage as we try and help each new member through the process to get them to a stage where they are happy and have their system up and running.
I know what a soldering iron is but don't give me a electronic project to make as it will finish in the bin. I can decipher the code I worked with and find faults and also pick through data to find problems in customers processes but that is a different field of a nerds expertise.
Regards
Brian

Robbiebago · Veteran Member

We did it. There is a lot of debate on Lithium batteries in RV, but after much research, this is the way we have gone. Find out why!

robbiebago.blogspot.com.au/2013/09/lithium-batteries.html

Now we wont get on the road until after Christmas at the earliest.... still waiting on the slide-outs. (The American company is disgustingly slow - we ordered the slideouts way back in Jan or Feb (can't be bothered to check my emails for accuracy - I reckon Rob knows just when)> Anyway, in the meantime, we still ahve plenty to do to get it road worthy and liveable to our standards!!!

Regards
Michelle

mongrel · Guru

Have read your blog site and have made comment.Well done...Alan

dorian · Guru

Lithium batteries catch fire in Tesla electric car:

jalopnik.com/this-is-what-fiery-tesla-model-s-death-looks-like-1440143525

beiffe · Guru

Gee a lot of hype there.

The video of a lithium battery catching fire was a Lipo used in models. Highly flammable and unstable. Different chemistry all together. Same the batteries used by boeing were not LiFePo4.

I would trust my batteries in a fire or crash above petrol or AGM's or wet cells.

It reminds me of many years ago when they strapped animals in a train carriage and sent it down a slope to see if they could withstand the forces on their bodies at 60MPH.

Good for a laugh when you read the comments though.

Regards
Brian

Mick c · Member

coolabah1au wrote:
Thanks brian sence meeting you we have joined terry group but having trouble with a lot of termongoly and upstanding how many batteries i would say we are very modest user i had solar put on a couple of years ago
when we bought the bus it had two alternators we had trouble in qld last year when the big agm died bought some corner store battery to get us back to Victoria but they have died too now
Been doing a lot of reading on all sorts of forum jest to get the gift of thinks
wayne Nini by. The way we meet you at Elmore on Australia day ok

Terry group...tell me more

Delta18 · Guru

I am 6 months into a T1 Lithium install. I am neither a nerd nor read volumes of electricity manuals. I don't know any secret passwords nor signs.

I do know that I can sit in a free camp, use my 230v kettle, toaster and coffee machine whenever I want. If it gets warm I can switch on my a/c and still see some charge going into the battery.

I no longer need to carry a noisy, smelly generator. Not everybody's idea of caravanning but it suits us.

T1 Terry · Guru

Mick c wrote:
coolabah1au wrote:
Thanks brian sence meeting you we have joined terry group but having trouble with a lot of termongoly and upstanding how many batteries i would say we are very modest user i had solar put on a couple of years ago
when we bought the bus it had two alternators we had trouble in qld last year when the big agm died bought some corner store battery to get us back to Victoria but they have died too now
Been doing a lot of reading on all sorts of forum jest to get the gift of thinks
wayne Nini by. The way we meet you at Elmore on Australia day ok
Terry group...tell me more

A bit over 6 yrs ago we opened a private forum for like minded early adopters to share their experiences and problem solve any issues that might arise without the nonsense put forward by the armchair experts who claimed the world would end or you birthdays would be cancelled or something similar if you used lithium batteries. When the membership reach 125 we realised the forum hadn't been set up well enough to cope with new members entering and trying to come up to speed with the knowledge base that had been developed over the yrs, the learning curve had become near vertical requiring quite a solid understanding of the subject to follow what was being said, new members were simply overwhelmed and soon dropped back out. With 107 different projects each with their own thread and over 7,000 posts with 5 folders each with between 11 topic and 343 topic, plus 8 pages of other topics, it was virtually impossible to rewrite the forum into an easy to follow format for any new comers. So we closed the forum to new memberships and decided to concentrate our efforts into perfecting a battery protection system that could be adopted to suit the many different paths members had taken to reach the same end, a system that was hassle free and looked after itself, only notifying you if something had gone astray and being able to self protect if the call for help wasn't answered, it disconnected the battery and control system while keeping the monitoring system active so when help arrived the fault could be identified, fixed, then the system set to normal operation.

The number one cause of a fault turned out to be human error , this is why the whole system is now automated to be self sufficient, yet it had to remain user friendly so the owner could identify the problem if it should occur with help via email/phone and fix sorted no matter where you were, no need to send the unit back to the factory or to an authorised dealer. The parts are often on the shelf at store within a days delivery or can be sent out I the post with instruction on how to install the bit. Multiple levels of redundancy and every section has a simple bypass step to keep the system up and running while waiting for the bits to arrive. Nothing is ever fail proof but if the system is designed in such a way that anyone can sort through the problem with a bit of guidance and parts are easy to replace the owner has the confidence to take their system anywhere, that was the aim and I believe that is what we have achieved as a group. With the feed back from hundreds of systems that are still running and zero total system failures and no one wishing they hadn't taken the step, as a group we are now looking at off grid systems for the home and more importantly, how to adapt the system you already have to give yr round benefits so the outlay is no longer just for the RV and part time use but becomes part of the house power system as well.

Sorry, didn't mean to get carried away and write such a long post, but it's hard to just call it Terry's group, it is really a much larger group, all dedicated to keeping the nonsense from taking a firm grip while trying to help people avoid the traps that can cost them dearly by putting their trust into fly by night resellers out for a quick $$

T1 Terry