At last the blame has shifted

NeilandRaine · Guru

At last the blame has shifted

Santa · Guru

Backpackers certainly need educating as to what is and is not acceptable, have seen the behavior depicted time and again.

Not saying Grey Nomads are perfect, however, because of limited facilities back packers are more prone to do this sort of thing.

lightoffshore · Member

I think they are mostly ok and no more visually offensive than dudes taking showers in their speedos at the beach or dogs urinating or pooping in reserves or beaches.

Surf Life Saving Clubs are screaming for money at the moment and located at awesome locations. Why can't they charge say $5-$10/night to use their car parks, a toilet and beach shower?

Umpie1 · Senior Member

Unfortunately the councils/rangers are hamstrung by the definition of camping. As I understand it, the definition of camping is that you have to erect a structure [eg tent] to be considered camping. when you do that then the authorities can act. So until councils get proactive and change the definition then certain people will take advantage of the fact that council are hamstrung. Perhaps the Caravan organisations should get together and lobby the councils to prevent this type of abuse of facilities.

-- Edited by Umpie1 on Tuesday 27th of January 2015 03:56:22 PM

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

These "freeloading" backpackers make up the most lucrative section of international tourism to Australia.
We spend huge sums to attract them here, we know how they want to travel and what they want to spend their money on.
Then we provide no facilities to cater for them.
So where is the problem?

The last sentence in the report (for those who only read the headlines) is....

There are no signs prohibiting camping within the reserve and a Marrickville Council spokeswoman said the backpackers had not become an issue for the council......

........which clearly makes it simply another media beat-up.

Cheers,

Peter

johnq · Guru

Government and business don't want to be shortsighted. Many of these young people who are going through their rite of passage will come back as respectable marrieds on honeymoon and later with their children. That is, if they are treated decently and politely. The smaller, grubby element (hard drugs, crime and overstaying visas) are far more likely to lob and stay on the Gold Coast, or more likely in Sydney and Melbourne.

Government and business cannot expect immediate returns if any, from the slick, expensive tourist advertising and overseas junkets claimed to be for promoting tourism, by politicians and other big-knobs.

Word of mouth is by far the best advertising. Many of these young people are active on the web and some go on to spread the word in countries apart from their country of origin.

Naturally there will always be the 'Long Grassers' and other nuisances. For example the drunken lot on sit-down money who regularly take over Musgrave Park in Brisbane and harass students from Brisbane's State High School, but it is very foolish to impose restrictions that impact on everyone.

The very last thing that government should be promoting is the churlish behaviour of some residents who object to reasonable use of parks, and businesses that rip-off tourists. Speaking of the latter, there are fast food joints and short-stay accommodation in all of our coastal towns and cities that should have been closed down years ago. Absolutely filthy, high-priced and rude to boot! The Gold Coast City Council and the Tweed for examples, have a lot to answer for.

It is time that the experts in government, business and academia actually sat down and talked with the people most affected, namely the public and the tourists, grey nomads and backpackers, to see what they actually want and supply it. Business cannot expect to take money for every service. -Some businesses even object to shade trees with public seating and water fountains. I am aware of the cost to Shire Councils, but that is being overblown. Maybe they might be surprised by the simple, low-cost alternatives that a bit of direct consultation with youth and nomads will (not might!) surface.

-- Edited by johnq on Tuesday 27th of January 2015 05:56:14 PM

dING · Senior Member

It seems to me that Grey Nomads

Complain loudly and long About restrictions

On our rights to free camp but gladly do the

Same about youngsters doing the same thing

Double standards methinks

-- Edited by dING on Tuesday 27th of January 2015 06:16:52 PM

Santa · Guru

Really don't think a lot of Grey Nomads or backpackers understand what's acceptable and what is not.

If you think its OK to camp overnight in public area's, within capital cities and heavily trafficked tourist spots, carry out your ablutions and washing as well as crap, pee and leave toilet streamers everywhere, then you need to take a long hard look at your habits.

We get it good in OZ' why is it there are always those who want to push the envelope.

Don't care if they are youngsters or oldsters, right is right and wrong is wrong.

Try this behavior in the US, you'll have a highway patrol on to you within minutes.

-- Edited by Santa on Tuesday 27th of January 2015 06:34:59 PM

jules47 · The Happy Helper

Santa -spot on - we are at Carcoar Dam, there good flushing toilets here, with toilet paper provided, the other afternoon, three foreign backpackers arrived.

Parked their hire van near us - they were gone next morning, but left a calling card- yep, tissues with excrement obvious on them, left on the grass, about eight feet from three bins, and the toilets are possibly fifty feet away!

That is what is not acceptable!!

johnq · Guru

Only alternative:

See it, report it, stop it
The Waste Reduction and Recycling Act 2011 gives people the opportunity to report a littering or illegal dumping incident that occurs from a motor vehicle, trailer or vessel.

If someone reports a littering incident that has occurred from a vehicle, vessel or trailer, the department will investigate the incident. If sufficient evidence has been provided to support the complaint, a penalty infringement notice (PIN) will be issued to the registered owner of the vehicle. PINs for littering start at $227, refer to Queensland's littering and illegal dumping laws for further information on the different fine amounts.

https://www.ehp.qld.gov.au/waste/littering.html

Something must be happening because it is unusual to see a tradie's ute without a net cover. Same as trucks belching black soot for kilometres, which are a disappearing fast.

Problem is that police can't be everywhere. That is where mobile phone cameras become useful I guess. Aussies hate to dob, but where grubs foul or vandalise facilities an exception can be made to that rule.

Added as an afterthought, if a few backpackers were collared and hit with fines that would be out on the native drums fast to discourage others.

-- Edited by johnq on Tuesday 27th of January 2015 09:20:12 PM

Pete49 · Senior Member

johnq wrote:
<snip>
Added as an afterthought, if a few backpackers were collared and hit with fines that would be out on the native drums fast to discourage others.

-- Edited by johnq on Tuesday 27th of January 2015 09:20:12 PM

unfortunately most will disappear back overseas and not pay the fine and too costly to chase up.

Pete

peterblack · Senior Member

hi all. I agree with pete49
but also the saying in Australia used to be a fair go for all
pete

Santa · Guru

Pete49 wrote:
johnq wrote:
<snip>
Added as an afterthought, if a few backpackers were collared and hit with fines that would be out on the native drums fast to discourage others.

-- Edited by johnq on Tuesday 27th of January 2015 09:20:12 PM
unfortunately most will disappear back overseas and not pay the fine and too costly to chase up.
Pete

Not so difficult in this computer age, red flag their passport, the moment they present it at Australian immigration the game is up. wink

blaze · Guru

How many people get to know the back packers, as with grey nomads and all other groups of people iys only a small minority that create the bad name for all of a target group. Whats the old saying some thing about don't throw stone if ya live in a glass house
cheers
blaze

Santa · Guru

blaze wrote:
How many people get to know the back packers, as with grey nomads and all other groups of people iys only a small minority that create the bad name for all of a target group. Whats the old saying some thing about don't throw stone if ya live in a glass house
cheers
blaze

No one is talking about the character of these people Blaze, I'm sure they are all lovely people and pillars of the community.

What we are discussing is the camping habits of these grubs.

"people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" not sure who your referring to, however most people I meet in my extensive travels do the right thing.

jules47 · The Happy Helper

We have met and camped with several backpackers, from all over the world, interesting to hear what they are doing, and how long they have to do it in.

Most are terrific, it is only a few who cause problems, as blaze said. Strike up a conversation, and drop subtle hints re toilets, and the amazing fact that toilet paper is provided in some, or that you need to take loo paper. Or just point out where things are - rubbish bins, dish washing facilities etc.

They are courageous young people, coming over here, which is a complete contrast to where most of them live, often they have very little English. Met an Asian on a bike the other day, really nice free camp with toilets, and right in a town - but the sign said NO TENTS - he understood that, and I felt sorry for him, he wouldn't stay, though it wouldn't have been a problem I don't think, the town was pretty well deserted, and all he wanted was a good nights sleep somewhere safe. Another small town, not too far from there, had designated tent sites within the community CP, which was free, with a donation for power, hot showers, and toilets. Great idea.

blaze · Guru

Santa wrote:
blaze wrote:
How many people get to know the back packers, as with grey nomads and all other groups of people iys only a small minority that create the bad name for all of a target group. Whats the old saying some thing about don't throw stone if ya live in a glass house
cheers
blaze
No one is talking about the character of these people Blaze, I'm sure they are all lovely people and pillars of the community.
What we are discussing is the camping habits of these grubs.
"people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" not sure who your referring to, however most people I meet in my extensive travels do the right thing.

you said it yourself santa MOST people do the right thing, that seems to be what I was saying. It just seems to me when people talk about backpackers, too many people want to rip them a new bum. What do I mean about the glass house statement is, have you ever done any of the things you complain about ( I have, been caught short a few times, been drunk on the odd occasion and not cleaned up correctly, hung the odd thing on a tree a few times) these were done when a lot younger but that doesn't excuse the behaviour. So I am saying have a look at your lifetime and then tell me you have been a perfect person. The term YOU is not pointed at any indivual person.

cheers

blaze

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

Perhaps, the "kids" of today are not that much different to many of us in our youth. hmm

Perhaps it is all in the perspective of the viewer Things haven't changed that much over the years

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wCXr_6wgns#t=77

Cheer - John

Bruce and Bev · Guru

I agree with just about all the comments on this post - all of them have merit. My dealings with backpackers is most of them are pretty good but perhaps as many of them are young, they lack the maturity to think through some of their actions - like loo paper. Maybe our roading authorities need to put up (yep, another bloody sign) a sign explaining its ok to put used loo paper - hopefully in a plastic bag first - in the rubbish bins provided.

The other problem is many rubbish bins have no lids on them and light items, like paper, blow out in strong winds (come to coastal WA to experience this) or the crows pull it out looking for food.

And John is right - about oldies attitudes to the young generation. Think back to what your parents said about what you could do as a young person and compare it to when they were young - the "I remember when I was your age.......". And do any of you think that about the way your kids behave and how they raise your grand children??

the rocket · Guru

johnq wrote:
Government and business don't want to be shortsighted. Many of these young people who are going through their rite of passage will come back as respectable marrieds on honeymoon and later with their children. That is, if they are treated decently and politely. The smaller, grubby element (hard drugs, crime and overstaying visas) are far more likely to lob and stay on the Gold Coast, or more likely in Sydney and Melbourne.

Government and business cannot expect immediate returns if any, from the slick, expensive tourist advertising and overseas junkets claimed to be for promoting tourism, by politicians and other big-knobs.

Word of mouth is by far the best advertising. Many of these young people are active on the web and some go on to spread the word in countries apart from their country of origin.

Naturally there will always be the 'Long Grassers' and other nuisances. For example the drunken lot on sit-down money who regularly take over Musgrave Park in Brisbane and harass students from Brisbane's State High School, but it is very foolish to impose restrictions that impact on everyone.

The very last thing that government should be promoting is the churlish behaviour of some residents who object to reasonable use of parks, and businesses that rip-off tourists. Speaking of the latter, there are fast food joints and short-stay accommodation in all of our coastal towns and cities that should have been closed down years ago. Absolutely filthy, high-priced and rude to boot! The Gold Coast City Council and the Tweed for examples, have a lot to answer for.

It is time that the experts in government, business and academia actually sat down and talked with the people most affected, namely the public and the tourists, grey nomads and backpackers, to see what they actually want and supply it. Business cannot expect to take money for every service. -Some businesses even object to shade trees with public seating and water fountains. I am aware of the cost to Shire Councils, but that is being overblown. Maybe they might be surprised by the simple, low-cost alternatives that a bit of direct consultation with youth and nomads will (not might!) surface.

I did not know Musgrave park was a place backpackers were going.

-- Edited by johnq on Tuesday 27th of January 2015 05:56:14 PM

-- Edited by the rocket on Wednesday 28th of January 2015 11:04:38 AM