No mate, cant happen we are on a private winery estate with two big dogs guarding the gate

Cheers..

 

Well it a trap for people like me

Sorry mate, didn't mean it to be negative. But I'm sure you've seen people like I have seen, when it comes to using test equipment, even the ones who should know better. If the cladding is ally, it probably won't show up any live wires behind it and some voltage sticks are less sensetive than others. Then there's things like flat batteries in the voltage tester, or even trying to test without 240V connected to the van.

I watched as a supposedly qualified electrician tested for 240V with a multimeter on a fluro fitting he had just relocated that didn't work. He said: "Well there's the problem, no 240V!" I had a look and pointed out that he probably wouldn't measure it too well on the DC setting. Then I took my Fluke 87V back off him before he stuffed it up, and told him to use the el cheapo workshop meter.

I can't remember what the problem was with the light now though.

Everytime someone asks a question or puts up a  simple hint someone has to bring up the old don't touch the 240v slogan. Getting a bit tried of the same old comments. We are all getting gumpy old men.  We should be happy just to read these simple hints without these don't touch the 240v.

-- Edited by grahamg on Saturday 4th of July 2015 07:29:37 PM

Where did I say I was fiddling with 240V, I just don't need to be reminded in every post not to. This was a simple post about hanging things on the outside of the van I am sure we could have lived without another warning about the dangers of 240v.

What are these voltage sticks, can I use them to jump start the tug? :)

Wow, what a stir. Volts sticks are an indicator of the presence of voltage. I have a fluke which is meant to be high quality, the volt stick will glow and beep (depending on the brand) when voltage is nearby.

If in doubt DONT.

BTW I agree with Troopy, don't stuff around with stuff that can kill you.

Cheers

Phil C wrote:

---

grahamg wrote:

---

Everytime someone asks a question or puts up a  simple hint someone has to bring up the old don't touch the 240v slogan. Getting a bit tried of the same old comments. We are all getting gumpy old men.  We should be happy just to read these simple hints without these don't touch the 240v.

-- Edited by grahamg on Saturday 4th of July 2015 07:29:37 PM

---

 Hi Graham, I've taken some time to digest your comments regarding 240 volts. I'm a bit torn between agreeing with you and tHe others  

Yes, we do talk about safety with mains voltage a lot and probably to monotonous regularity, however if you get a thump from the mains you will know exactly why we do this. 

as an electrician and then a trade instructor and school teacher, I have seen so many people take a dont care attitude toward electricity and end up in deep trouble. 

I am absolutely sure you work safely and would not be the type to have an electrical accident, however there are those that are absolute idiots when it comes to dealing with the 240 volts on their caravan. My suggestion to use the volt stick is an easy rather cheap way to pick up the presence of voltage, if we don't check, its just guess work and touch and see if you get a boot. 

Cheers

---

 Providing:

1) The volt stick works.

2) Providing the volt stick isn't being shielded by the external aluminium of the caravan.

GrahamG please don't read this post.

Phil C wrote:

---

Agree troopy, thats why you should always test meters, voltsticks etc on a known working appliance.

Voltsticks will work through aluminium as ally has a relative permeability of zero, same as air. So it wont shield the magnetism needed to work the voltstick..

Cheers

---

 Actually they work by capacitive coupling, but can be affected by magnetic fields too.

from a pdf file Powerlogic.com.au:

The voltage or more correctly the electric
field produced by the voltage is measured
using capacitive coupling. If you remember
that a capacitor is two metallic plates
separated by an insulator or dielectric, then
you have the basis for understanding how
proximity testers work.
The live metallic component such as
a live wire is the first plate and the other
plate is inside the tester. The operator or
person holding the tester also forms a direct
circuit or by capacitive coupling to ground
if isolated from ground e.g. by shoes or
carpet. The sensing circuit of the tester then
detects that there is a capacitive voltage
and initiates a signal to show that there is
voltage present.
You can prove this by placing a proximity
tester on an insulated table next to a live
power cord or outlet. The tester will alarm
while your holding it but will turn off when
you remove your hand.
Therefore, the proximity tester may not
work if the operator is isolated from ground

also:

Proximity testers cannot work where the
live wires being tested are shielded, such as
in a metallic conduit or where the cable has
a metallic shield. However, the tester will
measure a voltage if the metallic conduit or
cable screen is live.

You can test the latter by holding your voltage stick above a live extension lead at a point where it just registers, then slip a sheet of aluminium foil under it the volt stick, and you can see it is much less responsive.

Anyway, it's something I would never rely on to tell me it is safe to drill through a wall, but plenty of others do, and a few more used to lol

Phil C wrote:

---

OK I was under the assumption that these worked on the magnetic field produced by a live conductor. If it's capacitive as you suggest, I would be very wrong indeed. Therefore I stand corrected, however as an indicator and indicator only its pretty handy

Cheers

---

 Yep Phil, a very handy tool for tracing where power is running. As long as you work by the rule that; if it blinks, there IS power present. If it doesn't blink, there MAY not be power present, so further investigation is required.

I say no more.

-- Edited by grahamg on Friday 24th of July 2015 07:56:03 PM

-- Edited by grahamg on Friday 24th of July 2015 07:56:31 PM

It wasn't hijacked. One of the points brought up in the OP needed a bit of clarification. If you don't see why, then you are exactly the ones who needed it pointed out to you. But, never mind stick your head in the sand and everything will be fine.

Thank god for the Darwin theory I say..

Troopy, I fine you comments rude, You have no idea of my technical knowledge and nowhere in my comments did I make any technical statements as far as I can see and comments such as yours
"But, never mind stick your head in the sand and everything will be fine" and "Thank god for the Darwin theory I say.." I find you have have gone to far.

I will no be making any further comments