Do you lubricate your studs?

iana · Guru

Do you lubricate your studs?

Woody n Sue · Guru

ABSLUTLY. YES

Iana see my post on post before yours

Woody

Dick0 · Guru

A question for the Teckie ladies? biggrin

Dougwe · Chief one feather

Why Ian? Have you been put out to Stud, mate.

Tony Bev · Guru

Perhaps this question should be in the I digress section, but I will take the bait

Quote from the OP from another thread
Dougwe you started this :- off to the naughty corner with you. (I love this sort of thing), the next one is going to be "do you lubricate your stud" (torque).
Unquote

Answering to the Topic name
Short answer is no
Long technical answer is no, and no again

iana · Guru

You have me dreaming Dougwe.

vince56 · Senior Member

Hi iana,
I have been told by manufacturer - under no circumstances lubricate wheel studs as this can promote loosening on the road.
Cheers Vince

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Possibly due to dummies out there flooding their nuts .. Like the safety things you read on electrical appliances . Ie .. Don't use in shower .,, REALLY !! Ahaha

KJB · Guru

The only reason that they come loose is that there is either a mechanical fault (eg - none matching wheel and hub , incorrect nuts or studs etc....) or they were not lubricated and tightened correctly in the first place.

KB

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

I think I just posted this to the wrong thread cry [not getting any smarter are ya rocky ]

http://www.tirereview.com/its-really-all-about-lug-nuts/

To save you scrolling to find the pertinent article - this is it (apologies for the yankee accent hmm ) ...

Lubrication

There is a great deal of argument is whether to lubricate lug threads. Some swear by the use of some form of anti-seize on the threads, whether lithium grease, WD-40, motor oil or Teflon spray. The idea is to prevent rust and make it easier when it comes time to remove the lugs. Others recoil in horror, saying that lubing the threads will iresult in overtorqued nuts, or that the lubrication will cause the nuts to work themselves loose.

Manufacturers, engineers and other industry experts seem to unanimously oppose using lubrication. On the other hand, some customers, DIYers and self-appointed Internet forum experts claim to have used thread lube since the very dawn of time with nary a problem.

My own opinion is more nuanced. I disapprove of lubricating threads in general, unless they are badly rusted. Most lug bolts and lug studs are coated with a substance intended to prevent rust, but certain makes and models seem to be much more vulnerable to rust than others (Im looking at you, Volvo).

In that case I can see applying a small amount of lubricant to prevent further corrosion, but only after carefully cleaning the rust off the threads with a wire brush. In most cases, however, I would simply ensure that the threads are clean and not bother with lubrication.

If you do apply lubricant, make sure to do so carefully and only to the threads. Never allow any lubricant on the mating surfaces of the nut or the lughole of the wheel.

Much of the stickiness brought about by proper torque comes not from the threads but from the contact between mating surfaces. Even a thin film of oil between those surfaces can create a hydraulic barrier, preventing proper torque from being applied. This can also make it easier for the nut to work itself loose.

Either way, its always best to get that customer to return in two weeks to check the lug nuts for tightness if any lubricants are used.

Well, thus ends this months sermon. Now get out there and go nuts!

Cheers - John

rockylizard · Guru

KJB wrote:
The only reason that they come loose is that there is either a mechanical fault (eg - none matching wheel and hub , incorrect nuts or studs etc....) or they were not lubricated and tightened correctly in the first place.
KB

Gday...

This is an article produced by one of the acknowledged 'experts' in the RV industry ... it is a bit of a long read, but has good information all the way through.

http://caravanandmotorhomebooks.com/wheels-falling-off-trailers-2/

Cheers - John

vince56 · Senior Member

Hi All,
As per rockylizards link, Collyn Rivers (Guru) says: "If a lubricant is used (most authorities recommend against it) the tightening torque must be reduced by about 20%. Anti-seize materials must never be used for any but totally static applications. This is because their intended role is to ease undoing."
Enough said I reckon...
Cheers Vince

Brenda and Alan · Guru

I have always used anti-seize on wheel studs (50 plus years) and have never ever had a wheel nut come loose on any of my vehicles,caravans or trailers. I have however in my time as a motor mechanic broken studs on customers vehicles undoing dry threaded nuts and not with a rattle gun either. I will continue to use anti-seize in future in spite of what any journalist may think.

Alan

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Same here Alan .. Most are heavy vehicles too .. Our motorhome has wheel covers that prevent wheel nuts coming undone..
If it worries you there's things on the market similar.. Now I've said that ill have wheel issues !! Lol..

erad · Guru

I was in the Northern Flinders Ranges in my NL Pajero and had a puncture. Fitted spare and took flat tyre to the garage at Copely and they 'Fixed' it for me. Forgotten the charge but it was really excessive. Fitted the tyre back on the car and next morning it was flat again. Fitted spare again and took it back. The 'Fixed ' it again and I refitted the wheel back on the car. It went flat again, so I pumped it up and took it back to the garage. They went to undo the wheel nuts and one was frozen half way off. What to do? Eventually they had to break the stud, which meant that I was driving on 5 studs instead of 6. We got home safely and I replaced the stud, but ever since, I have greased the threads.

The recommendation of AJAX Fasteners was to use a light oil lubrication on their threads when torqueing bolts to a given tension. I use a thin smear of grease. If nothing else, it helps to prevent corrosion betwen the stud and the nut. Grapphite is electrically conductive, and it could assist in creating some galvanic corrosion . Normal Lithiul soap grease is less condictive and therefore better for this purpose.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Graphite grease is exactly what they use in electrical bonding between Alu and tinned copper to prevent electoisis or corrosion . What I like about it or the type I use . It stays on stud/ threads for years .

KJB · Guru

CopperKote works well too (and lasts well ) - copper does not rust and the grease/oil base lubricates "just enough" to make the job easy.

KB

-- Edited by KJB on Wednesday 31st of August 2016 01:33:45 PM

nuttyalmond · Newbie

NEVER lubricate wheel studs, that's what I was taught as an engineering apprentice many years ago. The threads rely on friction, lubricating reduces friction.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

How many here actually do their own wheel changes ? We've had wheel nuts we've had to gas axe off due to being unable to remove the nuts ., funny thing is . When I've purchased ARP studs for my bullt engines Etc ARP always supply an assembly lube .

-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Wednesday 31st of August 2016 02:28:16 PM

iana · Guru

I'm having trouble working out if the replies to this thread, on threads are friction or non-friction!

Phil C · Guru

Dougwe wrote:
Why Ian? Have you been put out to Stud, mate.

Did someone call my name?

-- Edited by Phil C on Wednesday 31st of August 2016 03:18:03 PM

bandit11 · Member

Ditto, it is the rust that holds nuts on unlubricated studs, its a lottery when undoing them.

macka17 · Guru

I use "neverseize" when at home.

Anywhere else.
I do as Sergeant wksp foreman in army taught me.
Wire brush studs if grotty.
Wipe a touch of grease on each one from your fingertip.
Then tighten each one in rotation .
then go round again with a bar. and take each one up till it "cracks".
Heavy Haulage tank transports to Champ's.
ALL the same.

I've been doing it since ''59. and carry a 1\2 lb tin of EP grease in toolbox in boot.
Does bearings too if necessary.

Never EVER had a stud come loose. and all come off freely.
ASA LONG AS YOU KEEP THE SAME BAR you tightened with,
Or longer.
I ain't changing now.

Plus.

always stop 100k's down the road to recheck.

And ALWAYS get tyre place to let YOU tighten your wheel studs
after your wheels been off.
So YOU can do it when on side of road.
The next one that can't. Won't be the first.

-- Edited by macka17 on Wednesday 31st of August 2016 05:03:34 PM

Gaz n Shell · Senior Member

I've been lubin my wheel studs for 45 years with neversieze and never had a nut come loose and never had one break or sieze either, I don't look like stopping neither

kezngaz · Senior Member

If lubricant, oils and grease help nuts release, then how do internal engine parts stay together, like con rod end caps and crank mains?
Kezngaz.

Ron-D · Guru

The Conrod nuts are not greased if anything is put on the threads it would be lock tight, to lubricate something as vital as Conrod nuts and main bearing cap studs would be insane..

-- Edited by Ron-D on Friday 2nd of September 2016 06:21:59 PM

blaze · Guru

Ron-D wrote:
The Conrod nuts are not greased if anything is put on the threads it would be lock tight, to lubricate something as vital as Conrod nuts and main bearing cap studs would be insane..

-- Edited by Ron-D on Friday 2nd of September 2016 06:21:59 PM

I beg to differ, rebuilt a lot of engines in my time and copious amounts of oil is used on all threads and in the bore on all journals etc

cheers

blaze

iana · Guru

Crunch-crunch-crunch Oh dear run out of chips. Seems we have no winners.
Yes torque should be reduced if using lube on threads, but if you do them up using hand torque I doubt the difference would make any difference. Its probably mass production and rattle guns where the no lube came into play, as lubing the threads would add time to the job.
When threads are cut, the tool leaves as seen under a microscope tiny jagged bits. Especially true with stainless steel. By using Copper-kote which is finally powdered copper, or never-seize, finely powdered lead, both which in them selves are lubricants, they fill the jagged holes, and help prevent picking up.
Both these products contain a liquid lubricant as well.
Graphite powder would be another one to use.
I use a thread lubricant, but I also spent 20 years working doing maintenance in a winery (Wynn's Coonawarra Estate) water, and acid wine being the main concern, so its habit, and never had a problem.
To lube or not to lube, if it has worked for you to date, stay with it.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Quality studs have "rolled" threads . Not cut .. As it under sizes the stud .

kezngaz · Senior Member

blaze wrote:
Ron-D wrote:
The Conrod nuts are not greased if anything is put on the threads it would be lock tight, to lubricate something as vital as Conrod nuts and main bearing cap studs would be insane..

-- Edited by Ron-D on Friday 2nd of September 2016 06:21:59 PM
I beg to differ, rebuilt a lot of engines in my time and copious amounts of oil is used on all threads and in the bore on all journals etc
cheers
blaze
I agree.
A very interesting comparison too...
Kezngaz.