rrobor wrote:

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I knew some little red hen would come and tell us the sky would fall down. And the point about voltage, please get facts correct. If voltage killed we would have long since eradicated birds that sit on power lines. It is current that kills, and if you half the voltage you must double the current to achieve the same power. Simple Ohms law. So no USA at 110 v is far more dangerous than our 240V. And yes there are several other reasons I'm not going to get into, but if you feel inclined look it up.

 Australia was born into the modern age with the spirit of make do. Tied together with fence wire, built out of bits on hand. Loose that and get tied up in red tape and Australia will become like the UK, a tired old country needing a good shake.  Rob

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And that shows how little you understand

Birds sitting on a power line are not electrocuted for ONE very simple reason,I let YOU try to work out why not

You obviously do not understand all about power volts & amps,with your current volts statement  

.i'll let YOU try to work that out too ,but it is an extension of Ohms law [a little clue  "R"

110VAC is NOT more dangerous than 240V AC

Any voltage above around 50V AC can kill ,that is all that is needed to force the few milliamps of current through the human body to cause cardiac arrest

The HertZ [freq ]of the voltage also plays a part , the worst frequencies are those around the heart rate. 

But with 110V, the fault loop resistance of the circuit [including the human ,can be lower without reaching the fatal current that 240V would give

about 50% lower[Ohms law]

Better do a bit more googling & a brush up on  basic electrical theory may help

rrobor wrote:

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I didn't wish to debate ohms law, I made the point only to suggest that voltage does not kill current does. A few milliamps across your heart and you cease, An Amp flowing from your left hand to your left foot may cause a burn but you will survive. So the point is moot. Rob

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 Another totally ridiculous post

It needs more than a few milliamps ,  that is why RCDs [normal domestic units ]are set to trip @around 40milliAmps

To SAVE lives

But those with certain health problems can be killed with far less which is why hospitals ,aged care facilities etc have 20 milli A units.,

Suggest you test your theory .running even just 0 .2 Amps from left hand to left foot & post the results 

Now that should not cause too much of a burn as it  only 20% of the current you suggest

but if burns are a concern ,why not even lower like 0.1 amps .   Your knowledge of Ohms law should enable you to work out the series resistance you would need in series with your hand taking into account contact resistance & body path resistance

But it will be a loong wait , actually  more likely never,before you post the result

Please, to those who do not fully understand electricity & it's dangers

IGNORE any thing that this poster's posts on such subjects or you could end up DEAD

iana wrote:

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You wanna see what happens when mother magpie standing on the wooden cross piece of a pole feeds baby magpie standing on the wire. POOF!

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 Yes 

At that point there is a conductive path from the live line wire to earth via  the baby. the parent, the wooden crossbar  & the pole. It  could  have a grounding wire running to the very top for lightning  conduction ,just to help things along .

rrobor wrote:

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Guitar amps have 5ma fuses people have been known to be killed by those. When you pick as folks are doing here you can do all sorts of things. No one in their right mind tries to get a shock, and simple ohms law needs more facts before you can figure out things. If you are unsure of what you are doing you tend to sweat, so you have to add that in. But you all are picking at crumbs to make sure no one gives the poor guy an answer.
It is the usual, attack and kill the subject. Someone suggests frequency plays a part if its close to heart rate. You don't attack that. A 1Hz frequency or there abouts is hard to find, but Im sure someone will come out with harmonics of this or that causes it. Rob

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Simple question

Just What Qualifications do YOU have to be posting on electrical matters, electrical shocks???????????

Are you An electrician ,Doctor .???

Edit found the Answer 

an Electronics "technician"

No rules or regulations covering that . No  license required to do repair  work, but , I hope you understand the limits of what YOU can legally do 

Do you have any form of limited license for 240V work??

Perhaps have a read of the state you live /work in ELECTRICAL ACTS & REGULATIONS

The reason no one with with any sense of  responsability will give the op an answer has been clearly stated !!! He asked a question thinking that is all he needs to know,

There is much more involved than just cable size for a safe complying installation ,that is why full knowledge of ALL the requirements  of both relevant Standards are necessary .

And just in case some /you fail to understand  

The acts regulations & applicable Standards prime functions are to protect lives & property & not just those of the clever person who does the job ,but  other innocent persons too

To others, again be very careful of info you get , make certain it is from reputable, trained ,qualified people 

YEP

Moorey

I just had a quick look at what is said about this on the net.

http://blog.tradeplatform.com.au/2013/04/home-improvement-diy/is-your-diy-electrical-project-actually-breaking-the-law/comment-page-1/

Heaps of stuff relating to this Subject.

The law in Australia is pretty black and white when it comes to working on the electrical in your home and is much tougher on DIYers and amateur sparkies than in most other countries. In the most basic terms, if a job goes much beyond changing a lightbulb, you will probably need to get the relevant licensed tradesperson onto it.

The following information is a basic overview of just some of the laws and regulations you, as an Aussie homeowner, should be aware of before attempting any work on the electrical systems in and around your home.

The majority of Australian states require homeowners to obtain a compliance certificate from a tradie for electrical work carried out, which then guarantees, among other things, that the work that has been completed complies with the all of the appropriate Australian Standards and that you would be covered for defective work.

The laws do vary from state to state and can, at times, be about as clear as mud. For example, the NSW Fair Trading site states An electrical licence is required before any electrical wiring work can be undertaken in NSW, regardless of the cost of the work and regardless of whether the work is residential, commercial or industrial. They go on to define electrical work as the manufacturing, constructing, installing, testing, maintaining, repairing, altering, removing or replacing of any electrical equipment. This seems to indicate that its OK to change a lightbulb, but anything else is pretty much out!

Queensland can award penalties of up to $100,000 or two years imprisonment if illegal electrical work results in serious injury or death. The maximum penalty for multiple deaths is $200,000 or three years imprisonment. and what would they consider illegal for a DIYER to do? All of the following:

• installing a new power point.
• replacing a light switch.
• replacing a batten holder with a new light fitting.
• repairing an appliance such as a heater.
• altering the location of an existing power point.
• replacing a light fitting with a ceiling fan.
• constructing an extension lead.
• replacing a plug on the end of a lead.

They do seem to be OK with a homeowner completing the following tasks though:

• replacing a drive belt in a washing machine.
• cutting openings for, but not connecting, air-conditioning units.
• fitting, but not connecting, an electric wall oven in a kitchen cabinet.
• rewiring old-style fuses.
• installing garden lighting and pond pumps.
• installing battery-operated smoke detectors.

At their website, the SA government The SA government website says that all electricians are responsible for work commencing at the point of supply, up to and including:

the electrical wiring on the consumers property from the main switchboard to the building
wiring within the building to the electrical appliance
fixed electrical appliances.

Now is it likely that you will get caught if you decide to scrimp a bit and complete work that the government feels that you are not qualified to do? No, if all goes to plan, probably not. If something goes awry however, that may very well be a very different scenario, not to mention the fact that the company that provides your homeowners insurance will be taking a very dim view of your DIY heroics as well.

Saving a couple of dollars now may seem like a great idea, but it could really cost you down the line. Better then to play it safe and when in doubt, find a licensed tradie.

From the WA ENERGY BULLETIN. 

https://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/sites/default/files/atoms/files/energy_bulletin_67.pdf

Read a bit more of this publication and you will realise the Elexctricians get fined as well for faulty installations.   Also  a electrician not holding a WA licence fined for working in WA on a electrical installation.   

Caravan installations

Electrical contractors carrying out electrical installing work on caravans are reminded to ensure the installation meets the following requirements:

1. All caravan installations must comply with the mandatory standards AS/NZS 3001:2008 Electrical installations Transportable structures and vehicles including their site supplies and AS/NZS 3000: 2007 Wiring Rules.

Please note, if a caravan was wired prior to the current edition of AS/NZS 3001:2008, then it only needs to meet the standard that was in effect at the time of manufacture.

2. When the installation has been completed, a Caravan Installation Test Certificate (available from EnergySafetys Licensing Office) must be completed and fitted to the caravan (see image below). This Certificate attests that the caravan meets required safety standards.

3. If an installation does not comply, a Caravan Installation Test Certificate must not be affixed to the caravan until further testing is carried out to rectify any identified defects.

4. If the caravan is to be connected to power on-site, ensure that the socket outlet has residual current device (RCD) protection.

5. On-site permanently wired caravans require two RCDs for the lighting and socket outlets. 6. Caravans that are sold, rented or leased require one RCD if there is one inlet socket and two or more RCDs are required if there are two or more inlet sockets. 7. A Preliminary Notice and Notice of Completion are required to be submitted to the relevant network operator if the caravan is being connected, or, reconnected to the electricity supply To obtain more Caravan Installation Test Certificates, please contact our Licensing Office on 6251 2000 or via email energylicensing@ commerce.wa.gov.a

robol wrote:

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Where did I say it was flex, as used in extension cables for use in a fixed wiring situation?
What I did say was that flex as mentioned by me on page one would stand up better to vibration. That was in response to Dicko's comment, as to him using household cable to do some wiring in his caravan.

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 Do you relaay know what you are saying?  The cable you mentioned on page 1 is

(Flex Cable 2C+E 2.5mm2 50/0.25mm PVC Flex 250/440v O/Duty Grey Sheath), as taken from the receipt. This was also run inside another plastic flex for added protection against wear, due to vibration when travelling.

That is clearly flexible cable used in extension leads.

I saw a cartoon that amply describes you and your mates today:

Hewy54 wrote:

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 so bought a portable plugin floodlight that stayed in place till we moved 15 years later. Was this permanent?

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 If you used tools to secure it in place and tools were required to remove it then it could be considered permanent. If you hung it up and could later remove it without tools then it was not a permanent installation. Time of use does not come into the equation. You can install something for use over a weekend and uninstall it on Monday, even though that would be a permanent style installation you can uninstall it a few days later.

Moorey wrote:

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YEP

 

 

Moorey

 

 

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