Differentiation between bolt and screw

trevmac · Newbie

Coach bolt tent pegs

CC Bear · Senior Member

Depends where you are, would suggest you google bolt suppliers for your area.

hako · Guru

I just had a look for "300mm coach bolts" on Ebay and got 98 sites selling them!....however it's possible you mean 300mm hex head screws or whatever they are called presuming you want to screw them into the ground.

Good Luck.

Long Weekend · Guru

I bought mine on eBay from an American supplier about 12 months ago when the Oz/Greenback were almost on parity. Including the very expensive postage rate from the US a pack of 30 worked out at around $2.50 each. Not bad considering some straight pegs cost around that much. But now I think they will run out at around $3.50 each.

By the way, the Americans call them lag screws. The ones I bought were 3/8-inch by 12-inches long in a pack of 30. Surprisingly, they arrived in about two weeks after ordering.

The only reason I didn't buy metric ones from England is that I couldn't find a supplier that sold overseas. Unfortunate, because postage from the UK is cheaper than from the US.

When I was searching for the 300mm/12" screws I was told that no one in Australia manufactured them in that length. Somebody else might have better luck in finding an Australian source for the long ones. As far as I am aware the longest sold by Bunnings is 150mm.

Incidentally, I posted a photo on how to use the coach bolts by utilising a 50mm flat washer in an earlier posting. Just search for the posting made by me - Long Weekend.

Somebody else made adaptors from aluminium strip which required drilling large holes and bending. But the 50mm flat washers are available off the shelf at Bunnings - all that is required is to drill a 4mm hole near the outside. Pulling the spring strainer apart, threading one end of the loop through the hole then putting the strainer back together is fiddley but will keep you entertained for a good ten or so minutes.

Finally, at first I used a 18-Volt cordless drill to drive the screws in and take them out. But it struggled in very hard ground. Since then I bought a 240-Volt rattle gun which drives them in so fast it it is almost hard to stop in time.

And yes, I know that a 240-Volt tool is no good to free campers - but SWMBO will not consider free camping under any circumstances! So it is caravan parks for us - otherwise we would never get away.

And as Hako (Dennis) mentions, you want the hex head screws. Bolts have a mushroom head.

Murray

PS: The best thing about using the coach screws is that they come straight out of the ground when you are leaving - no levering, pulling or swearing.

-- Edited by Long Weekend on Saturday 15th of October 2016 10:23:00 PM

Phillipn · Guru

I could only buy 8" coach screws in Toowoomba. So I got 8 " screws and cut one off at the top of the thread and the tip of another and welded them together. Then cut the thread into the weld with a cut off disc. This is to make the thread the same for the whole length of the thread, so their is better grip in the ground.

Makes the screw 1 ft or 300mm long.

The 300 mm screws listed on Ebay were metal thread bolts not screws.

Hardware shops are too expensive, I got mine from a nut n bolt outlet.

-- Edited by Phillipn on Sunday 16th of October 2016 07:20:49 AM

-- Edited by Phillipn on Sunday 16th of October 2016 07:14:23 PM

Tony Bev · Guru

Hello trevmac

May I be one of the first to welcome you to the forum

Long Weekend has given you the info you require, about what the Americans call lag screws

Phillipn has given info on how to lengthen them

In Australia they are called Hexhead coach screws
They have a normal bolt type hexagon head, with a wood screw type thread

Bunnings have them in the M8 size up to 130mm long, and M10/M12 size up to 150mm long

eBay have them up to 200mm long, but you have to buy a box of them

I use M10 size at 150mm long, and use a cordless drill with a hammer setting to put them in the ground, and normal setting (in reverse) to remove them

The picture is so that there is no misunderstanding of the item I am talking about, as coach bolts have a rounded head

Hope that this info is useful to you

M10 hexhead coach screw - Copy.jpg

Long Weekend · Guru

Yep, Tony, those are the ones I bought.

Just make sure that the ones you order have the pointy wood screw threads. They are available in zinc plated (cheapest), galvanised and stainless steel (most expensive).

Murray

-- Edited by Long Weekend on Sunday 16th of October 2016 02:08:58 PM

Dickodownunder · Guru

You could buy from the USA if you need bolts that are 300mm long.

www.boltdepot.com/Product-Details.aspx

And have them shipped via a forwarding service (there are many forwarding agents) here is one.

www.comgateway.com/work/

I am thinking of getting these but I really wonder if they need to be 300mm long or would 200mm (8") or 250mm (10") would do the job?

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

I use a couple of old hand augers . An extension could've welded to coach bolt ? The top section doesn't need screw - auger on it . Have some short roofing type to use on sealed areas at motorsport events . Yes it doesn't sound good . But I Hamer over hole when removed . You wouldn't know .

Yuglamron · Guru

Don't want Coach bolts they have Mushroom heads.

Go to markets where they sell old tools and buy the old style wood augers. The type they used with a brace drill . (The older ones are V Good quality steel)

They have a square end albeit tapered. Use a cutting disc to cut the ends to the same dimension so you can use an electric drill or rattle gun and socket to put them into the ground. Also get some washers welded onto them near the top with a hole drilled into them to attach your guy ropes. I bought a dozen from a market for $10 and the welder charged me $10 to weld the washers on them.

-- Edited by Yuglamron on Sunday 16th of October 2016 11:01:24 AM

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Yea I think the ( op)idea of coach bolt with screw thread . We used coach bolts on power poles with 18mn hex head . .. Just way ( term) of explaining bolt .,lol

rgren2 · Guru

I just use 150mm baton screws, I have some large plastic washers that I've countersunk so the baton screws are flush. 75mm ones for the ground sheet and mats. Works for me. Have seen 300mm "landscaping" screws in Masters, just another type of baton screw. Probably wouldn't hold in sand but I don't camp on sand.

macka17 · Guru

I use the old Timber Augers from my wooden Yacht days.
Have a full set. plus others. with both a Hand Brace and T Bar handle.
1in dia and upwards really gets a grip in the ground.
Specially sandy.

Normally though Stainless Pegs and my 4lb mash hammer drives in most soils.
I made up Stainless from round bar, as the steel ones when getting older.
Get corrosion on sides, which makes them 20 times harder to drive in hard ground.

Pouring water on ground then coming back later usually starts them better too.

Cupie · Guru

I got a few of the longer 'hex head coach screws (or bolts)' from a local Bolt retailer.

I just belt them in with a lump hammer or back of my hatchet & pull them out with an electric drill & the 'socket' attachment that is also used to wind down/up the corner steadies.

We have two types of brackets for attaching the guy ropes. One type that was sent to me by LanceC (Oley46) are made from some aluminium bracket that Solar Installers use (very good ones they are too) & others that I made from a short length of doubled over galvanised strapping with a couple of suitable holes drilled, one for the peg & the other for the guy rope spring.

-- Edited by Cupie on Sunday 16th of October 2016 06:18:44 PM

The Belmont Bear · Guru

Many years ago when I did my time as a fitter we were taught that the difference between a bolt and a screw was -

Bolt - a fastener that had a screwed thread and mated with a nut or pre tapped hole.
Screw - a fastener that was pointed and had a self tapping thread.

Maybe there is the odd exception (like a machine screw) even the terminology used in another country could be a little different but it's not a bad place to start when you are trying to describe to someone what you are after.

Long Weekend · Guru

Machine screw - has the thread the full length, meaning that it can be screwed all the way down into a tapped hole.

Bolt - only has the thread part way along the length, requires a nut.

Wood screw - has coarse thread and pointed tip. Will not go into a tapped hole, nor will they accept a nut.

The American term 'machine screw' is not normally used in Australia - both full length and part length threads are mostly called 'bolts.'

Does that make it clear as mud?

Murray

PeterD · Guru

Long Weekend wrote:
The American term 'machine screw' is not normally used in Australia - both full length and part length threads are mostly called 'bolts.'

I would not agree with that. The term machine screw was used back in the 60s when I started work. The term Machine screw was used to differentiate between screws with a non tapered thread from wood or self tapping screws. My general nomenclature for fasteners has been as follows

Differentiation between bolt and screw

There is no universally accepted distinction between a screw and a bolt. A simple distinction that is often true, although not always, is that a bolt passes through a substrate and takes a nut on the other side, whereas a screw takes no nut because it threads directly into the substrate (a screw screws into something, a bolt bolts several things together). So, as a general rule, when buying a packet of "screws" you would not expect nuts to be included, but bolts are often sold with matching nuts. Machinery's Handbook describes the distinction as follows:

A bolt is an externally threaded fastener designed for insertion through holes in assembled parts, and is normally intended to be tightened or released by torquing a nut. A screw is an externally threaded fastener capable of being inserted into holes in assembled parts, of mating with a preformed internal thread or forming its own thread, and of being tightened or released by torquing the head. An externally threaded fastener which is prevented from being turned during assembly and which can be tightened or released only by torquing a nut is a bolt. (Example: round head bolts, track bolts, plow bolts.) An externally threaded fastener that has thread form which prohibits assembly with a nut having a straight thread of multiple pitch length is a screw. (Example: wood screws, tapping screws.)

Long Weekend · Guru

Hmm. Hands up those who ever went into a hardware store and asked for a 'bolt.' Then bought the one with the required length of thread regardless whether it was a bolt or screw.

Anyway, we are getting away from the topic - those wanting to buy coach screws only have to ensure that they buy the ones with coarse threads and pointy tip.

Murray

The Belmont Bear · Guru

Thanks guys I fell like I'm back in Tech. my explanation was only meant as a quick guideline not as a technical specification. You are right Murray at the end of the day you will go into Bunnings and buy what you need regardless of what it's called.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Ask for screw peg ? Lol

CC Bear · Senior Member

Some photos from those who have posted about their bolts would give other members a better idea of how you are modifing the end.

Phillipn · Guru

CC Bear wrote:
Some photos from those who have posted about their bolts would give other members a better idea of how you are modifing the end.

Look at my post above for photo.

Dickodownunder · Guru

So what is he general concensus on length of said screw...bolt...thing with a pointy thread...and a hexagon head?

Cupie · Guru

What's in a name .. someone once said.

For my 10c worth ... I prefer a hex head coach bolt/screw .. Galv & 200mm long.

Drive them in on an angle with a hammer & extract with a suitable socket on a battery drill.

Galv iron strap tab on the guy rope spring.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Screw in tent peg .

Long Weekend · Guru

Long Weekend · Guru

Well, I got the photo of the washer that I use with the coach screws into the subject. But so far I haven't been able to work out how to include text with the photo.

(Hmm - after the fact I presume I enter the text first then add the photo. Doesn't work the other way round!)

Anyway, as can be seen it is simple - only one 4mm hole with no welding, bending or machining. So far after eight trips the washers have worked perfectly - the 300mm screws have never even looked like pulling out.

A few people have noted the washers held down with the hex head screws - some believing that they would be difficult to get out of the ground until I gave them a demo.

On the other end of the trace spring there is a pulley. That is because I have been using woven rope - running woven rope around the wire will distort it unlike twisted three core rope.

(The woven ropes are in fact reflective - I bought them from Masters but Bunnings also have them.)

To pull the trace apart compress the spring enough to release the hooks into the center. Then work the hooks down through the center by rotating the loops around the spring coils - just as if it was a threaded nut.

To reinstall the loops just slide right up the middle of the spring, then compress the spring enough to pop the hooks over the end.

Hope that helps.

Murray

-- Edited by Long Weekend on Monday 17th of October 2016 12:57:38 PM

PeterD · Guru

Dickodownunder wrote:
So what is he general concensus on length of said screw...bolt...thing with a pointy thread...and a hexagon head?

Let's get the nomenclature correct first (it also helps to get names correct when shopping so you get the correct items without any fuss.) What you need is galvanised coach screws.

If you are purchasing the screws in Oz about the longest you will get are 200 mm ones. I have these but would prefer longer ones. As others have said you can get longer ones from the USA (but call them lag screws when ordering there.)

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Just weld a longer bolt to coach screw . I use 13mm or so . If you know any Lineworkers for local elect authority ? They'll help you out .. Used ones of course !! Lol

Tony Bev · Guru

Not sure if it is clear enough in the picture

I use 10mm x 150mm Hexhead coach screws (Bunnings terminology)

I just connect three links of a chain to the rope spring, and put a 10mm washer between the head and chain

I have got a Framia 45 awning. The brochure which was in the RV when I purchased it says that it is a sunshade and not suitable for wind or rain

Therefore there was no need for me to have longer pegs, especially in hard packed ground

I also carry a 10mm masonry drill bit in case I come across very hard ground

Hexhead coach screw.JPG