Overweight issues

Brenda and Alan · Guru

RE: Overweight issues

mr glassies · Guru

Ian my ball weight is 250 kgs and van is 3100 kgs that's what got me into this whole weight thing I always say 300 on the ball gives a bit of leaway .

Dibs

Bruce and Bev · Guru

This is the time of the year to see all the whopping great long vans being towed by a small size Pajero or similar with Mum, Dad and 3 kids in the SUV, tail hanging down and happily off on holiday. See it every year.

Live in Mandurah so see a heap of WA and inter-State rigs going through. The thought they are grossly overweight or badly loaded, or both just does not occur to them.

The only people who may have some influence on changing this "life is bliss because we're totally ignorant of the dangers" attitude are the caravan manufacturers - and only for those that buy a new rig. Both the makers and Dealers should be providing safety leaflets and word of mouth advice to buyers, but they are sales driven and mostly don't care. You even see new buyers driving out of Dealers yards with under sized tugs with the tow bar pointing down.............

Footprints · Senior Member

Macka the Isuzu NPR Series is available in all the configurations that you have listed except twin cab for the short wheelbase model. 5litre turbo 6 speed trans and hauls my gross weight of 7.8 tonne in overdrive 6th on highway. Not forgetting the huge benefit when towing of having a strong exhaust brake (silent) and economy to match or better that of a L Cruiser. Cheers Allen

Hey Jim · Guru

After a Sh....t fight For those in the know.

Our van was fitted with a new compliance plate by the Company. Our van can now match our TTD tugs 350kg ball weight.

With an ATM of 2680kg. biggrin biggrin biggrin

Jim

macka17 · Guru

Thank's prints.
Others should take note.

And I think the mobile "plates" they use are zero'able on the spot b4 use,
as well as calibrated every shift.

He did say they CAN issue tickets on those figures?
but just warning at present (Then)

So you tell me.
I'd rather be right than take a chance thank you.

We go over local dump scales b4 we set off every time.
Costs nothing. verbal.
or $25 for a legal scales ticket.

Our Coromal 535 os 2000kg on plate.
Weighed twice so far.
1740 and 1763. BOTH times loaded, empty tank.
They a nice light van for a full size Tandem.

mr glassies · Guru

Ok well I think I can over come the problem . Ally tray and very little on the tug . I went to main roads they couldn't help they gave me the tech phone no they couldn't help gave Me the web sit addy even after I told them the info I wanted isn't there .

BUT
I think we a m8 and myself have spotted something we all might have missed . Correct me if I'm wrong .

This should account for all vans and tugs .

The weight of the van and the tug cvm is 6000 kgs the van ATM is 3100 that should give me 2900 kgs on the ute regardless of tow ball weight . So if I'm weighed and I come up under 6000 kgs and then they want the ball weight it goes 250 kgs as long as um under 2600 kgs I'm ok and with a alloy tray I was taking of the ball weight from the gcm that's were I went wrong just means I'm down to minimal gvm on the tug .

So we don't get to take granny mays dinner set

I'd still like to know how much a tub weighs I've had plenty of took 4 to loft but that could be give or take any thing did you eat your weetbix weight dosnt count .

Dibs

Ron-D · Guru

Are we really overweight every single axel van with leaf springs gets the usual 300kg load limit even if there chassis has a strong build with a very heavy leaf Spring pack . It's usually only a mater of contacting the factory and getting a revised compliance plate, mines like that so if I get pulled up tomorrow I fined heavily for a perfectly safe caravan,just because the manufacturer is keeping the load down on the compliance plate so that the van can be towed by lighter vehicles is this the real B/s situation....

macka17 · Guru

Don't know how much it pertains, legally now.
Was a few yrs ago

There was a mobile scalie crew. With police car, sitting in a closed weighbridge pull off in the Territory.

I pulled over to ask a few,and get self weighed for interest. (knew we were way under. around 650kg's)

The weighman said.
They zero scale on dial for every wheel set. for each axle.
then count the weights per pr of wheels (truck) down each side of rig. Up the other side.

That gives them (legally) wheel weight. Axle weights.
Combined weights and Tractor weight.
They can then compare their figures with plates for each axle. each trailer. and Tractor separate.
Plus combined.

AND issue tickets. legally. for any discrepancies.

So many dollars per ton or part of (can't remember what parts).
on each and every weigh point. plus\or combined weight. Plus licence if
goes to court.

If over on some axles yet under combined.
They can still go you the axle weights. (get you anyway) And they ALL love NSW trucks.

He also Said they couldn't weigh our type of rigs yet.
till they got more suitable Scales.????
But it was coming in a yr or so.

C00P · Senior Member

The generally recommended figure for ball weight is 10% of the caravan weight, but some authorities (especially in Europe) dispute this, suggesting that 6-8% is a better figure.
THat would reduce the ball weight of a 3.5 tonne van from 350 to 210 to 280 kg. That would permit a slightly larger payload in the tug.
We operate with the ball weight at 8% of our 2.9 tonne van. We've had no towing troubles (including over some fairly rough terrain)but we have also fitted an ESC to the van just to be sure. A ball weight scale was a good investment- we check the weight every time before we tow and move stuff if we need to get it right..
Cheers

C00P

EDIT: Some really Useful Info and formulae here: http://www.outbacktravelaustralia.com.au/driving-towing-towing/towball-weight-and-trailer-stability

-- Edited by C00P on Friday 30th of December 2016 08:49:58 PM

-- Edited by C00P on Friday 30th of December 2016 08:50:30 PM

Bass · Senior Member

Hi john, I know what Toyota has on their site and books but try as I might I cannot find any posted GCM on my 2012 GX landcruiser, it has Tare and GVM but no GCM, friend has 2012 GX also and the same we cannot find any reference to GCM. Paul said it's because they are primarly aimed at the mining and agri business ??????? any way I'm pretty safe, across the barby at Broardford in full holiday mode (caravan etc ), I'm 20kgs over on the car. Leave the Jim Beam home and all is sweet...... ( as if ).

Cheers bass

rockylizard · Guru

Bass wrote:
Hi john, I know what Toyota has on their site and books but try as I might I cannot find any posted GCM on my 2012 GX landcruiser, it has Tare and GVM but no GCM, friend has 2012 GX also and the same we cannot find any reference to GCM. Paul said it's because they are primarly aimed at the mining and agri business ??????? any way I'm pretty safe, across the barby at Broardford in full holiday mode (caravan etc ), I'm 20kgs over on the car. Leave the Jim Beam home and all is sweet...... ( as if ).

Cheers bass

Gday...

Does this help?

http://www.toyota.com.au/landcruiser-200/specifications/gx-turbo-diesel-auto

GX Cruiser GCM.JPG

Cheers - Johbn

Bass · Senior Member

Hi John, thanks mate, I'm aware of the weights but I guess what I'm trying to say is that there is an Australian standard sticker on the vechile that states tare and Gross vec mass but does not state any GCM nor is there any other sticker on vechile stating GCM, and pauls is the same.

Cheers bass

Gundog · Guru

Unfortunatly some brands have issues with load weights when towing Collies are one of them, the weight penalty for feel good accessories are the killer. Using my Ranger as an example, its towing capacity is 3000kg max ball weight 250kg with ford hitch, it's GCM is 5500kg GVM is 3000kg. 1st trip to weighbridge was with full tank 2 of us onboard tool box and complete WDH,to get the real kerb weight. 2nd trip ute fully laden everything that belongs in it, that gave me the GVM, I also got my axle weights. 3rd trip was with the van on as we would have it to leave, GCM new GVM and axle weights, at the end we had 240kg of available weight for the tug, the van was at a max weight. There is a free weighbridge near townsville, if you are in Vic there is another at Broadford on the Hume. On any long weekend almost every ute packed to the hilt would be over weight, even towing nothing.

ants_oz · Veteran Member

Hi Bass,
GCM is not required to be stated for light vehicles. It is not uncommon for it to be 'missing' from the plate when the GCM equals the GVM plus the max tow rating (as per your toyo for instance). When the GCM is LESS than the GVM plus the max tow rating (common on mid-weight dual cabs for instance), then it's still a coin toss as to whether the manufacturer will stamp it on the plate - but again, not always! Can make it difficult for people.

Hylife · Guru

rockylizard wrote:
Hylife wrote:
In Victoria, only when purchasing a new vehicle, and only before it has ever been registered for the first time (anywhere), if you have your dealer send your vehicle to have its suspension upgraded, (eg Pedders etc), and they issue a certificate to the dealer about the increased payload or towing capabilities, then the dealer can do the first registration with the increased figures making it all nice and legal.
However, once you have registered it, anywhere, you CANNOT get any of the weights or towing limits changed from what the manufacturer stated on the new vehicle (in Victoria) regardless of any engineering certificates. The limits that are applied to the first registration are fixed for the life of the vehicle in Victoria, and they DO NOT recognise interstate issued certificates. EG, if you got it approved in NSW, when you go to get Vic registration VicRoads will not recognise the upgraded limits.
Gday...
are you QUITE sure about that Hylife ??
Cheers - John

Yes. The post you pulled from VicRoads states quite clearly, Changes to "RECORDED" .....

Until the first rego there is no recorded data for your vehicle.

Rego of new vehicles is all done online and the dealer can accept the prefilled default OEM info or modify it.

If you are at all unsure then don't take my word for it, go talk to an LMCT or Caravan dealer and they will confirm this.

After the first rego it is "recorded" and then you need engineering reports etc, etc.

macka17 · Guru

Gundog. Woof Woof.

Regarding the scales.

MOST towns have a dump. Council, or private.

They "mostly" will weigh you on way through and give verbal reading.

Slack time. the couple I used would stop.start. give multiple weight scribbled on paper. or $25 for a scales ticket.

Either way. EVERYBODY setting off.
should, in all conscience. slip it over the scales to get max weights. either combined or separate.

Then you know. Smile and say g'day to copper.
OR RUN.