gearbox temps

mezza56 · Senior Member

gearbox temps

Dickodownunder · Guru

Hi Mezza,

It would be difficult to give you any guidance without knowing what make and model of vehicle, manual or auto trans,
and gross mass of the vehicle and the tug would help as well.

I personally have a 200 series Toyota and by fitting a torque convertor lock up kit it has drastically reduced the transmission temperature when towing.
Before the kit the trans temp was commonly around or above 100 deg and with the kit it is vary rare if the temp goes above 80 deg.
I might add that to measure the transmission temp I purchased a Scanguage 2 which is "plug and play" and can be programmed by the user to give various readings.

This may help with your enquiry.

macka17 · Guru

Same as above.

The Converter Lockup.
is the one BESt thing you can fit to Auto if you towing.
Bar none.

The Scanguage gives a "rough" idea of transm temp but not read from optimum part of system.
Only really. a guide.

Fit one to transm outlet point to cooler (T piece)
The optimum spot.

I fitted a tubular, finned transm cooler in line to front cooler
Helps a lot too. Gives the front cooler more chance of working better.
Plus.
easy to link in a line to completely FLUSH. NOT just drain your system on service.
It Does the full 15\17 ltrs. Not just a drain of 5\7 ltrs for show.

If you have dirty\discoloured brown oil.
The normal service just drains transm pan of the 5 to 7ltrs.
Leaves the bulk other 10 plus still in there to mix with the bit of new they add.

Ask for a "full flush" if you ever servicing your Auto transm. ANY transm.

And if they don't use a 20 ltr drum full almost.
They haven't done a full flush. (D.Max is near 17+ ltrs to clean.)
They vary.

Dickodownunder · Guru

You really need to jump up into the 21st century Macka..

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Given that most trans coolers are through coolant from engine ? I would say between 80 and 110* . Or so ?A little higher for short periods on hills etc . Most modern auto's go into limp mode if hot .

macka17 · Guru

Yea Dick.

Have a little read on it lad.
Then get back to me.
Better still. Ask your service dep't how much transm oil goes into your transm service.

Don't mention flushing. Just price a service and see how much fluid
they put into it..

Aus.
That's why a separate transm cooler is a bonus on Rad cooling only.
Talk to any transm tech on it. and the flush thingy.

Somebody needs to spend a little time on the spanners.

Dickodownunder · Guru

macka17 wrote:
Yea Dick.

Have a little read on it lad.
Then get back to me.
Better still. Ask your service dep't how much transm oil goes into your transm service.

Don't mention flushing. Just price a service and see how much fluid
they put into it..

Aus.
That's why a separate transm cooler is a bonus on Rad cooling only.
Talk to any transm tech on it. and the flush thingy.

Somebody needs to spend a little time on the spanners.

Yea Mack.

Someone may need to spend a little time reading what you actually write as answers to questions on here.

For a start, Macka, (the man that should be 175 years of age), I am a qualified motor mechanic with decades of experience on cars trucks and earthmoving as well as farming equipment.

The OP asked a general question re trans temps...nothing else.

Re trans temps...many modern transmissions have more than one sensor and detect temperatures from different areas of the transmission. This is for diagnosis purposes. These temperatures may be accessed through the diagnosis port on varying vehicles. Many manufacturers DO NOT recommend the installation of external transmission coolers. You do the reading before blurting out last century practices.

Why you would suggest to anyone to fit a temperature sensor and an external cooler without even knowing what make of vehicle or even what type of transmission the OP has is beyond me, and probably many others on here. The OP has given no indication how he uses his/her vehicle either. In some instances the installation of an external cooler on the transmission may be fraught with danger in an off road situation.

Most transmission specialists and many dealers have the equipment to completely flush the auto transmission if necessary and not rely on just the removal and replacement of the pan. I am not being brand specific here.

So Mr Authority on everthing and Master of none, you do the reading and if you had spent time "on the spanners" as this "Lad" has you may offer more accurate advice and if just for once, if you actually re read some of the ramblings that you type you may just realise how inaccurate and last century some of your statements are.

And to be honest, your condescending attitude toward other people in some of your posts "pees" me off.

Signed

GEOFF.

pinballpat · Veteran Member

Well I would think that the original Question was answered fairly accurately by the literature the poster read but to qualify the temp inside torque convertor can rise to 180c under extreme conditions,but I am fascinated by the amount of loose testosterone floating around the Forum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEvvRfuVk30

vanman · Senior Member

Have to agree with your post Dikodownunder, I think that Macka should have asked Santa for a new keyboard because a lot of his words have letters missing!!!!!

Chris

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

If towing and driving in warmer area a heat exchanger / cooler won't hurt . I have massive cooler on my motorhome . In the cooler temps I fit a rag over 1/2 the cooler . It mainly helps in economy keeping auto warm . If your vehicle has good trans cooling and coolant is kept in top condition ? You have no issues . I must say after say 6 or so years I would by pass the coolant type as some leak coolant into auto causing failure ., Modern auto's are expensive to repair .

Dickodownunder · Guru

Totally agree Aus Kiwi Modifications can be vehicle specific rather than generalisation that one mod will suit all.

macka17 · Guru

Diddums..
We did get our knickers in a twist. didn't we then. Chuckle.
Most on here ARE towing. (he also mentioned it)
And I also said as you finally got into.

Agents do have equipt to "flush" .
BUT as I also said.
the "normal" transm service just drops the pan. changes filter then tops up again.
NOT Flush. Normally 5 to 7 ltrs.

Temp's in this country. specially up North and across the middle. plus climbing,.
DO raise transm temps. sometimes to quite high levels.

MOST mechanics, specially Auto, in those circumstances.
DO recommend extra cooling facility

Regardless of what MFG's say. They just covering own arses.

IE Transm cooler in line.
And a "flush". is the only thing that gives full system of clean fluid.

The suggestions of coolers and temp sensors.
are only what most 4wders fit to their cars to keep better watch on the running gear
of their veh's.
AND a sensible thing to do to your $40\50\60k tow vehicle if you have any respect for it.

Being a "mechanic" you'd know that a transm run best, inside a certain temp range.
with regularly FULLY changed fluids.

Will last longer and give less problems
than the normal run of mill maintained veh that takes what comes with no extra maint.

And Unless fitted with latest, all gears lock up.
It WILL\does help itself, with a accessory Manual\auto Converter lockup fitted too.
WHEN TOWING....(he did mention that by the way)

You did do Transmissions in your trade training I suppose.
a 6 months Rolls Royce diesel course was part of ours in late '50's.

The factory guages that come fitted in 'most " veh's,
give 'average" readings in a certain range.
until temp's rise quite a bit first.
Then go into hot range..

My Patrol sat on 83 for near 14 yrs and never moved.
even with 6'5 mtr van , tinnie on top up in Terrirtory

This D.Max sits under second line on Guage. ALL the time again. regardless.

External read from 0 to 93\97 plus, on hills with van on.
Now. with cooler rarely goes above 87.

ANY extra. ACCURATE readings on any veh's mechanical workings.
Can only be an advantage in my and a lot of others eyes.

Read any 4wd book\magazines for a starter.

They mainly the "Practical" mechanics.

true experts on actual usage and effects of such in the real world.

And an external transm cooler. fitted in correct place.
will improve cooling and NEVER get damaged in 95% of accidients.

Mine a finned. tubular aluminium wall fits along inside of chassis rail
Where the rally and drag cars that they designed for are mainly fitted.

In line with factory front cooler

and perfect spot to link into and do full flush when required.

OH. Sorry. I could be wrong regarding them down South where you get cold.
But most are on way up here where it ALWAYS hot anyway.

Living up here you tend to forget.. Apologies again.
I'll readjust prev post.

"When using vehicles in HOT climates." OK

And No. I'm not 113, whatever.
just been lots of places. done lots of things in my life.
Same as many more than I have.

Unlike some that just stay in one place in one job all their lives.
I left home b4 13 and worked full time from then.
In a few country's on a few things.

ALL are adventures in life. and experiences in back of mind

Was Stamper on plates in rolling mills (Steelworks) for 3 weeks. YUK.. No thank's

kneeling on still glowing red plates stamping numbers on them for stock. 1954\5ish.

Then Trawlerman till army. Corporal VM (Vehicle Mechanic) in REME. UK Army
After, A Mobile plant fitter for a while till went operating.
MUCH more money and no grease up to elbows thank you.

Serv, maint ,own operated, Draglines and cranes and excavators.
Rode the hook for a while if my crane standing. Doggy.
(That was fun)
Pushed broom on nightshift on factory floors

and packed cardboard boxes on lines for spending money.

Managed tyre company branch. Trawlerman. wellpoint foreman. Concreter.
Worked on Motorways and gas pipelines,
when they were building them in '60s,'70's.'80's
Manager of tyre outlet for a while. Salesman.
and everything in between.

List goes on.

Just a normal. Travelling worker. Not bothered what I did as long as money came in
One of many in the world.

and did less than a lot of others too. Some. If they opened up.
Did a lot more than I could even envisage.
Specially the rig workers. THAT was a job. And Arctic or Atlantic fishermen.
Us on North Sea were only playing at it believe me.

Yea. OOOld Laptop, second keyboard too.

You gonna buy me a new one anybody? Chuckle.

Life is what a person makes it. Some believe Some don't. Suit yourselves.
Completely irrelevant.

Oh. And coolers. extra guages DO help....98% of the time shhhhh.

Bye diddums.

-- Edited by macka17 on Wednesday 28th of December 2016 04:16:01 PM

swamp · Senior Member

Hi
Fitt a cooler to a transmission unless there is a specific reason not to by the maker .
My back ground is engine oil coolers.
First the cooler type
serpentine
serpentine turbulator [ internal baffle pushing the fluid to the outside wall of the tube ]
stacked plate [most oem coolers ]
stacked plate with fins

efficiency of cooler is at its poorest starting with
a tube and fin type also has high pressure loss . Serpentine cooler is around 30% bigger than the stacked plate with fins for the same heat dissipation .

Stacked plate type
around 30% smaller than serpentine
lighter
low pressure loss
cold fluid bybass in some stacked plate

Temp sensor
Temperature sensor either needs to be in the return line [requires a flow ].
Best location would be in the sump/pan as this is the fresh oil the engine/ trans sucks from . Gives the best average .

OIL TEMP
All oils degrade just some faster than others
Operating consistently over 100cel degrades transmission parts and the oil .

RADIATER COOLER
Also functions as a warm up unit . May influence trans temps if engine operates at around 100c

OIL COOLER
Oil Thermostats can be installed if running in cold temps consistantly

Dickodownunder · Guru

macka17 wrote:
Diddums..
We did get our knickers in a twist. didn't we then. Chuckle.
Most on here ARE towing. (he also mentioned it)
And I also said as you finally got into.

Agents do have equipt to "flush" .
BUT as I also said.
the "normal" transm service just drops the pan. changes filter then tops up again.
NOT Flush. Normally 5 to 7 ltrs.

Temp's in this country. specially up North and across the middle. plus climbing,.
DO raise transm temps. sometimes to quite high levels.

MOSt mechanics, specially Auto, in those circumstances.
DO recommend extra cooling facility

IE Transm cooler in line.
And a "flush". is the only thing that gives full system of clean fluid.

The suggestions of coolers and temp sensors.
are only what most 4wders fit to their cars to keep better watch on the running gear
of their veh's.
AND a sensible thing to do to your $40\50\60k tow vehicle if you have any respect for it.

Being a "mechanic" you'd know that a transm run best, inside a certain temp range.
with regularly FULLY changed fluids.

Will last longer and give less problems
than the normal run of mill maintained veh that takes what comes with no extra maint.

And Unless fitted with latest, all gears lock up.
WILL\does help itself with a accessory Manual\auto Converter lockup too.
WHEN TOWING....(he did mention that by the way)

You did do Transmissions in your trade training I suppose.
a 6 months Rolls Royce diesel course was part of ours in late '50's.

The factory guages that come fitted in 'most " veh's,
give 'average" readings in a certain range.
until temp's rise quite a bit first.
Then go into hot range..

My Patrol sat on 83 for near 14 yrs and never moved.
even with 6'5 mtr van , tinnie on top up in Terrirtory

This D.Max sits on 85 on Guage. ALL the time again. regardless.

External read from 0 to 93\97 on hills with van on.
Now. with cooler rarely goes above 87.

ANY extra. ACCURATE readings on any veh's mechanical workings.
Can only be an advantage in my and a lot of others eyes.
Read any 4wd book for a starter.

And an external transm cooler. fitted in correct place.
will inprove cooling and NEVER get damaged in 95% of accidients.
Mine a finned. tubular aluminium wall fits along inside of chassis rail
Where the rally and drag cars that they designed for are mainly fitted.

OH. Sorry. I could be wrong regarding them down South where you get cold.
But most are on way up here where it ALWAYS hot anyway.

Living up here you tend to forget.. Apologies again.
I'll reajust prev post.

"When using vehicles in HOT climates." OK

And No. I'm not 113.
just been lots of places. done lots of things in my life.
Same as many more than I.

Unlike some that just stay in one place in one job all their lives.
I left home b4 13 and worked full time from then.
In a few country's on a few things.

ALL are adventures in life. and experiences in back of mind

Was Stamper on plates in rolling mills (Steelworks) for 3 weeks. YUK.. No thank's kneeling onstill glowing red plates stanping numbers on them for stock. 1957. Then Trawlerman till army.
Corporal VM (Vehicle Mechanic) in REME. Army
After, A Mobile plant fitter for a while till went operating.
MUCH more money and no grease up to elbows thank you.

Serv, maint ,own operated, Draglines and cranes and excavators.
Rode the hook for a while if my crane standing. Doggy.
(That was fun)
Pushed broom on nightshift on factory floors for spending money.

Managed tyre company branch. Trawlerman. wellpoint foreman. Concreter.
Worked on Motorways and gas pipelines,
when they were building them in '60s,'70's.'80's
Manager of tyre outlet for a while. Salesman.
and everything in between.

List goes on.

Just a normal. Travelling worker. Not bothered what I did as long as money came in
One of many in the world.

and did less than a lot of others too. Some. If they opened up.
Did a lot more than I could even envisage.
Specially the rig workers. THAT was a job. And Arctic or Atlantic fishermen.
Us on North Sea were only playing at it believe me.

Yea. OOOld Laptop, second keyboard too.

You gonna buy me a new one anybody? Chuckle.

Life is what a person makes it. Some believe Some don't. Suit yourselves.
Completely irrelevant.

Oh. And coolers. extra guages DO help....98% of the time shhhhh.

Bye diddums.

I for one am glad you took the time to tell is all your life story AGAIN.

macka17 · Guru

Yes Darlinggggggg.

AND you luved it..

What did YOU do with yours???.

Hey. What;s with the self portraits mate?.
Hope you ain't as sour as that pussy though.

OH. I was a single handed sailor over most of it too.
and a distance runner.
Not that that would interest you though hey.

Though I do know "I've" had a GREAT life.
and don't mind if I fall over tomorrow, as long as it's quick.

Have a good New Yr .

macka17 · Guru

It wouldn't be a bad idea if a few shared a little of themselves.

get to know WHO you texting with. Not just another faceless keyboard.

with few exceptions.

At least we all know what Geoff looks like anyway hey.
Volatile little beastie.

PS. How do you insert photo's on here. simply.

Then I'll frighten you lot.

PPS.

Hey Geoff.

That photo of mine is dated 1911.

You reckon "I" Could be hiding on there hey?.

Chuckle.

-- Edited by macka17 on Wednesday 28th of December 2016 03:54:32 PM

-- Edited by macka17 on Wednesday 28th of December 2016 03:56:40 PM

Bass · Senior Member

I'm in your corner Geoff.

Bass.

macka17 · Guru

Yeayyyy.

ANOTHER diddums.

Any more?.

boab · Senior Member

i may be wrong Macka 17 but the auto used by rolls royce in the 50s was a hydromatic made by the general for buicks and chevs and very much doubt having worked on them would make you an expert on the later model autos that are programmed through a computer ecm

Dickodownunder · Guru

boab wrote:
i may be wrong Macka 17 but the auto used by rolls royce in the 50s was a hydromatic made by the general for buicks and chevs and very much doubt having worked on them would make you an expert on the later model autos that are programmed through a computer ecm

You are correct boab, in fact RR took the generals product and tried to modify it because their engineers thought it needed refining but after failure after failure decided to consult with GM and found that it was better left alone. Any relationship between these early type auto transmissions and the modern day unit controlled by an ECU is like comparing chalk and cheese.

Without wanting to sound like my learned friend in the above posts the Hydramatic out of a Chev/ Pontiac was the first auto transmission I ever overhauled.

-- Edited by Dickodownunder on Wednesday 28th of December 2016 09:23:10 PM

dogbox · Guru

how bout neutral corner "gentlemen "

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Or at least P . Park .. lol

macka17 · Guru

Probably right Boab.
I worked, (learned. was only a 18\19 yr old in those days) in the diesels mfg shops.,
Never went near the car section.
Like the body plant that was down off the "North Circular" in London.

Diesels sect was down near Shrewsbury from memory. Engines mainly made for shunters. Scammel trucks, which we used a lot with the D.T's. for moving tank
ecovery parts.
and Propulsion units for the Missile carriers/Transports that were't towed.
Mainly US derived.

From memory I recall the Transm was also linked . then. to Twin Disc converters.
With R.R you didn't do much actual Internal "learning".
Was Mainly exchange of units in the Champ's and Centurions\Conquerors.

REME used them as turretlesss, ARV and BARV's (Armoured Recovery and Beach army recovery vehicles)
to recover split track pins\blown tracks tanks in the field.
Hence the R.R part of training. How to unfasten a bolt, and retime Magneto's.

The ANTARS and Mighty ANTARS we used for transporting them were Leyland (Thornycroft then) from memory.
They ran cut down RR Merlins as did the Conq, and Cent.s
You know them things ran on dual Mag's. They were pricks.
But the engineering tolerances of them. Being Spitfire engines among others. was amazing.
They updated the Diamond T's for them. British from American. Diesel to Petrol
The idea was. Keep diesel for the civvy haulage\transport. Trains.
and have 90+ % Military on Petrol

One of them M AMntars filled the LAD workshop.
Some had electric drives to hubs too from memory (vague)

The DT were one of the few diesels used for military purposes and had lazy Fuller 4 .coggers
crash boxes with a 3? spd splitter. Some had a "gate" box.
Only Auto's I remember playing with were yank 2 speeds and a coupla 3 spd.
POM were all Manuals.
I remember first time I got into a M,Antar to move it. 20 ft wide and 50 ft up. Felt like.
and driving a Centurion tank with A Frame and winches over the firing ranges. GOD.
Invincible. and all of 18 yrs old. ooold memories hey.

The Austin Champs (R.R powered)were basically 100% a mecano box. Unit out. unit in. Off to wksps.
and the number they cracked the chassis in half on when dropping out of transports wasn't funny.
Too heavy, they used to come down at 50 miles an hr looked like. Zoooom. Crunch, bounce. thud.
Start walking.
We got quite adept at stripping those things down in the field.
At least the L. R.'s bounced and then drove.

We should really get away from this memorising, and back to Transm temp's hey.
Me anyway, pills working well at present.

Floooooaating.

-- Edited by macka17 on Thursday 29th of December 2016 01:02:12 AM

ants_oz · Veteran Member

Macka

Your attitude stinks. Perhaps you could try helping people instead of constantly trying to big note yourself. Or is this forum simply a place for you to talk about yourself, and ignore the questions people are asking?

Instead of throwing insults at people, try being friendly. You might even like it.

I make this comment after seeing the results of quite a number of your posts in this forum.

ants_oz · Veteran Member

mezza56 wrote:
Hi all hope everyone has had a great Xmas day with Family or Friends.
A quick question if anyone knows , what is the optimal operating temp of a gearbox , verses towing ( roughly) .
I read where someone had a gauge fitted and towing in auto it was 105 and in S mode it was 90.
I don't have a temp gauge on the auto trans so not aware of what temps it operates at , but thinking of getting one in the new year .

Hi Mezza,

Around 80 to 90 degrees celsius is ideal, however it is not uncommon for temps to elevate above 100 for short periods - and this is not fatal to the trans - but should be avoided for long periods.

The behaviour of automatic transmissions on modern vehicles will vary between different models of vehicle, even when the same make and model of trans is used across different brands of vehicle.

The temp displayed on 'off the shelf generic diagnostic tools' (such as scan gauge etc) will depend on which sensor is being used for the display output - for example, temp readings of fluid taken around the torque converter will differ to those taken post-cooler. Unfortunately, most of these consumer-standard tools do not provide the user with this level of information. However any idea of what temps you are experiencing is a good place to start :)

-- Edited by ants_oz on Thursday 29th of December 2016 09:08:18 AM

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Another thread where I know more than you syndrome .In Aust another cooler won't do any damage . Infact I've fitted engine oil coolers as they are larger, flow more . For over 20 years still working fine with just fluid changes .,

pinballpat · Veteran Member

I think every now and then us OLD blokes loose ourselves, get derailed , get away from the original Tech Question and it always ends up like the age old question "Who has got the Biggest" then the original question is lost. I suggest that this scenario is happening so often now that it shows some human short comings so to keep us all on track I suggest click on the link

https://www.google.com.au/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=pHBkWOHFE6Hr8Af3uKrQAw&gws_rd=ssl#q=narcissism

ken thomas · Guru

In my ranger the engine coolant temp is around 90c but when towing it can go as high as 107c

I am getting my transmission serviced soon and it takes 10.5lts wet and 11 lts dry, so I assume .5 of a litrs is in the torque converter
Ken

macka17 · Guru

All bull**** aside.
I'm just trying to get people to talk about themselves a bit.
There would be a lot of interesting lives on here.

Unfortunately.
It seems to be a big closed book.
Everybody just hiding behind their keyboards.

You wouldn't know who was what or what anybody had ever done.

Shame really.
There could be some really interesting stories here.

PS Ants.

Where have I been throwing insults. None that I recall.

It's what's known as trying to open people up a bit. get some story's going.
We've ALL done something.

Maybe if people shared a bit.
These places wouldn't be so cold and mechanical hey.

Hiding behind the keyboards is not very sociable is it.
Knowing what individuals had done in life would maybe?.

help to get better answers to questions too
while knowing which answers were likely to be nearer the mark.
Or is that too simple.

People should share a bit

remember. Peoples experiences are what make them.

-- Edited by macka17 on Thursday 29th of December 2016 10:30:37 PM