CTEK 250 SA Dual

wasn_me · Guru

CTEK 250 SA Dual

Hylife · Guru

But, they still have failed to address the issue of making their units suitable for correctly charging different battery chemistries. ie, flooded Vs Gell Vs AGM Vs Calcium Vs Lithium.

The Ctek units like many DC-DC charger brands are designed with a charge curve that is solely for flooded batteries.

When any half decent sub $100 el-cheapo AC-DC smart charger from a discount auto parts chain has chemistry choices, I just can't understand why DC-DC charger manufacturers fail to implement charging technology that can hardly be described as difficult or costly.

rockylizard · Guru

Hylife wrote:
But, they still have failed to address the issue of making their units suitable for correctly charging different battery chemistries. ie, flooded Vs Gell Vs AGM Vs Calcium Vs Lithium.

The Ctek units like many DC-DC charger brands are designed with a charge curve that is solely for flooded batteries.

When any half decent sub $100 el-cheapo AC-DC smart charger from a discount auto parts chain has chemistry choices, I just can't understand why DC-DC charger manufacturers fail to implement charging technology that can hardly be described as difficult or costly.

Gday...

This is the website for the CTEK 250 SA Dual -

http://www.batteriesdirect.com.au/shop/product/23370/ctek-d250s-dual.html

This snipped from that site -

Cheers - John

Bluey1 · Veteran Member

Also now has an AGM setting

wasn_me · Guru

http://www.autoelec.com.au/new-ctek-d250sa-dual-dc-to-dc-solar-battery-charge

Here's a link to check the new 250sa dual. I think Rockys' link is for the original 250s dual.

Maybe some body could make it clickable. (The laptop would know more about me than I know about it)

Cheers Pete

rockylizard · Guru

wasn_me wrote:
http://www.autoelec.com.au/new-ctek-d250sa-dual-dc-to-dc-solar-battery-charge
Here's a link to check the new 250sa dual. I think Rockys' link is for the original 250s dual. Yep rocky bad! wasn_me's link is correct.
Maybe some body could make it clickable. (The laptop would know more about me than I know about it)
Cheers Pete

Gday...

Wasn_me's link worked for me .. and it links to the correct charger -

It contains this information at that site -

"The D250SA is a fully automatic 5-stage charger that supplies 20A to 12V batteries of 40-300Ah. The charger is IP65 classified (water jet and dust protected and approved for outdoor use), protects vehicle electronics and is suitable for all types of lead-acid batteries (Wet, MF, Gel, AGM). It is supplied with a 2 year warranty."

Cheers - John

-- Edited by rockylizard on Saturday 6th of May 2017 12:05:50 PM

macka17 · Guru

I have one of their 7a AC chargers wired into tray of ute to top up
the tray battery's. and panel on top of tray canopy to cover float,
when moving.

A decent Alternator. Panels and Mains charger when not mobile.
have covered mine for decades..

I've never seen the point of a DC\DC charger.
It can ONLY draw from car batt to wing\tray battery's. Correct??.

The car HAS to be running to charge main battery to run it??.

And it has it's own 90?a Alternator while running then anyway.
With solar to float at 14ishv when standing in sun.

What do they do, over and above the above?

Just interested. (I've often wondered.
as others probably have too)

dragonfly1 · Senior Member

I have a ctek 250 dc/dc charger connected to 400 watts of solar and it works really well battries are allways charged before lunch time

Dragonfly 1

Bluey1 · Veteran Member

macka17 wrote:
I have one of their 7a AC chargers wired into tray of ute to top up
the tray battery's. and panel on top of tray canopy to cover float,
when moving.

A decent Alternator. Panels and Mains charger when not mobile.
have covered mine for decades..

I've never seen the point of a DC\DC charger.
It can ONLY draw from car batt to wing\tray battery's. Correct??.

The car HAS to be running to charge main battery to run it??.

And it has it's own 90?a Alternator while running then anyway.
With solar to float at 14ishv when standing in sun.

What do they do, over and above the above?

Just interested. (I've often wondered.
as others probably have too)

Hi Macka. The alternator will normally only charge an AGM to about 80 to 90%. New car alternators even less as they shut down to preserve fuel. DC chargers allow for long cable runs and low input voltages and still bring the battery up to 100 %. The Ctek chargers have a second system that goes with the DC to DC charger that bypasses the charger to let the Alternator bulk charge the battery up to 80% then lets the charger finish. Also this model Ctek has an inbuilt conditioner / desulfat mode that also helps battery life.

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

Macka - take a gander at this site and add some up-to-date info to that 'experience and knowledge' you love to pass on to us all -

http://www.australiandirect.com.au/buying/battery-systems-solar/dc-dc-battery-chargers-alternator-charging/13

You will find the following para in the article .. but read the whole article first -

"Since 2000 or so it has been complicated by alternator voltages falling. Soon they are likely to be (at 12.7 volts or so) too low for RV battery charging at all. It is also complicated by the use of computer engine control systems that require a constant voltage."

hmm That damned motor industry ... ALWAYS changing and "progressing". hmm

Cheers - John

Hylife · Guru

rockylizard,

They can tell all the lies they want in their marketing literature about the suitability for all battery types, but the fact remains, the ctek units have a fixed charge curve that is set for flooded batteries.

These chargers aren't some magic voodoo box that can determine by itself what chemistry is your battery.

If consumers would do some reading on different battery chemistries folks will know that they all have their own unique charging requirements.

Just forget the advertising bullsh!t for a moment and look at the technical specs. It has a fixed two step charge curve that isn't correct for anything other than flooded.

If a cheapo $60 AC-DC smart charger allows me to select the correct charge method based on chemistry type, why can't the outrageously overpriced Redarc and Ctek DC-DC chargers?

These units have about $30 worth of electronics inside and the makers prey on the ignorant who are willing to pay stupid amounts for old outdated technologies. There are far better units to be found at half the price.

rockylizard · Guru

Hylife wrote:
rockylizard,

They can tell all the lies they want in their marketing literature about the suitability for all battery types, but the fact remains, the ctek units have a fixed charge curve that is set for flooded batteries.

These chargers aren't some magic voodoo box that can determine by itself what chemistry is your battery.

If consumers would do some reading on different battery chemistries folks will know that they all have their own unique charging requirements.

Just forget the advertising bullsh!t for a moment and look at the technical specs. It has a fixed two step charge curve that isn't correct for anything other than flooded.

If a cheapo $60 AC-DC smart charger allows me to select the correct charge method based on chemistry type, why can't the outrageously overpriced Redarc and Ctek DC-DC chargers?

These units have about $30 worth of electronics inside and the makers prey on the ignorant who are willing to pay stupid amounts for old outdated technologies. There are far better units to be found at half the price.

Gday...

I have tried to talk myself out of responding on this thread (but I lost the argument) - as I really am not all at 'electrically minded' ... bone ignorant most would say. cry and I might as well read a brochure in latin as it would mean as much as me trying to read 'technical specs'.

However, I really do wonder why you say the highlighted comment above. The original site I had found clearly states it is a "five stage charger" -

http://www.autoelec.com.au/new-ctek-d250sa-dual-dc-to-dc-solar-battery-charge

"The D250SA is a fully automatic 5-stage charger that supplies 20A to 12V batteries of 40-300Ah. The charger is IP65 classified (water jet and dust protected and approved for outdoor use), protects vehicle electronics and is suitable for all types of lead-acid batteries (Wet, MF, Gel, AGM)."

I do understand the problem with "advertising bulls!it" ... but are you really certain?

This Pommy mob also seem to confirm the Strayan autoelec site above -

https://12v-and-solar-products.com/products/ctek-d250sa-dual-input-battery-charger-split-charge-solar-alternator

"The D250SA is a fully automatic, 5 step charger that supplies up to 20A of power to charge, condition and maintain any 12V lead acid service battery from 40-300Ah including Wet, MF, Gel, AGM. EFB and Ca/Ca.
The D250SA uses patented technology so its safe for you and your vehicles electronics. Its also IP65 classified (splash and dust proof, and suitable for outdoor use) and comes with a 2-year warranty."

The Pommy site goes on past that para and goes to some length giving the advantages of this product. To make such "blatant lies" through their "advertising bullsh!t" seems strange to a poor, ignorant layperson such as I. confuse

Cheers - John

-- Edited by rockylizard on Saturday 6th of May 2017 10:07:57 PM

macka17 · Guru

Hmmm.
You live and learn John.
(PS.I never said I know ALL. Just lots of bits about lots of things)

They seem to fill the gap as you say.
But I've had Solar for 30 odd yrs. and float at around 14.2 most time anyway.
So never seen the need, as mine are on float.

THANK You for the very informative links.

We all learn all the time. Even me chuckle. (Believe it or not)_

And don't ever worry about upsetting me. I NEVER do.
unless somebody goes my grandkids.
A flare up with me.
Normally lasts around 2 and a half seconds.

Ask Di.
She's the most volatile human you'll ever find.
English. French. Irish. and 6 gen Aussie.
All mixed up in a little 5 ft 1 in. FEMALE pot.

She gets very frustrated cause I never boil over.
or even get very warm.
I lost my temper twice in my life. and paid for it both times.
A Loooooong time ago.

-- Edited by macka17 on Sunday 7th of May 2017 01:22:13 PM

rockylizard · Guru

macka17 wrote:
SNIP~~~
But I've had Solar for 30 odd yrs. and float at around 14.2 most time anyway.
So never seen the need, as mine are on float.~~~SNIP

Gday...

Macka , I concede there may be variances to set-ups/batteries etc ... but my battery is BULK charged at 14.3V and is 13.4V when on FLOAT dropping to 12.8V when darkness falls and before I begin to drain it overnight.

Are you sure your batteries FLOAT at 14.2. ??

[ when I say FLOAT I don't want you to think of those yachts ya always on about .. but the 'charged condition' of ya battery :biggrin]

Cheers - John

macka17 · Guru

OK John.
Sometimes I look they say 13.+ other times they say 14.2ish.
Probably the variances of times.
One time Lookee, charging. next time lookee, Floatee.
Sorry.

But you know what I mean. They float WITH solar.
So I never bothered going further.
Yachts. Vans. Ute. AND Boat battery's in Carport.
ALL Floatee Nicelee. Yessss.

Busy little bees. Aren't they.

OH.

And NOOOOO. The Battery's DON'T floatee.

I dropped one over side yrs ago.

Zoom. Like a torpedo.

With trail of bubbles all the way down.

Around 2000ft of them.

-- Edited by macka17 on Sunday 7th of May 2017 01:55:52 PM

Hylife · Guru

John, do you believe everything you read on the Internet, newspapers or brochures, or everything you see and hear on TV or radio? Of course not, no sane person does.

The problem with the 2 big brands of DC-DC chargers is that what they claim does not match with what their products actually do in real life applications, and, for that matter, their claims don't even match their own technical specs for the product.

Every seller just reuses the same marketing blurb with slight variations, that they were provided by the manufacturer instead of actually telling the truth.
Why? Because they usually haven't actually used and tested the products in a real world application themselves, and even if they do know better, they can always claim "we just advertised what we were told by the manufacturer, blame them".

Simply saying it is a 5 stage charger for all battery types does not make it so.

The product does NOT have a chemistry selection function, therefore it cannot possibly be suitable for different chemistry types such as Wet, Gell, AGM, Calcium, etc, because for maximum life these all have differing charge requirements.
Using a charger with a charge design for a wet/flooded battery will shorten the lifespan of Gell, AGM and calcium batteries.

Just because they have a patent on their design (stops clones) does not necessarily mean it is "safe for you and your vehicle", and no claims are made that it is safe for your battery.

IP65 does not mean waterproof or heat proof. Outdoor use does not mean suitable for mounting next to the auxiliary battery in your engine bay.

Suitable for a 300AH battery? Well that all depends on how much you need to put back into the batteries in a particular time period as to whether it is suitable, but I suppose a 5amp charger could charge a 1,000 AH of bank of batteries if you leave it running for 200+ hours.
At the full 20 amps it would take 7 to 8 hours of non-stop driving to recharge a 50% depleted 300AH set.
As for a solar connection, panels are not 100% efficient, so a 400 watt solar setup in full sun could probably just make 20amps but the earth rotates and we will all be at different distances from the equator, so you wont get 8 hours of full power from your panels each day to recharge that 50% depleted 300AH battery set.

If consumers would only start looking at advertising in a critical way they would start to realise that most all advertising is emotive spin bullsh!t. Don't believe me? Sit down and watch those ads for premium fuels. Not a single claim is made that is not pure emotive cr@p.

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

".............all advertising is emotive spin bullsh!t"

I am overwhelmingly thankful for your insightful enlightenment. Who woulda thunk it ! hmm

How will the general, unwashed and unknowingly gullible public decide on anything now. cry

Cheers - John

Craig1 · Guru

Getting close to diving in the under bonnet end for second battery, had a redarc, wasnt that impressed 300km drive didnt charge 2nd battery fully. So with 80w roof mounted panel and it can only be fixed, is there a dc/dc charger with solar input that will work. Will only be powering a 60l arb fridge, no freezer and maybe low draw led light for couple of hours.
thanks (no b yachts please)

Warren-Pat_01 · Guru

Gee there's a bit of angst in this post but I'm going to resend part of a post that I responded to a few weeks ago. Regardless as to whether the C-Tek unit has the correct battery setting or not, it works for me & I'm happy. I have an old girl that doesn't have all the flash electronic gizmos on it - at least I don't have to worry about "Limp-home Mode, etc" & should be able to fix most things within reason.

"When I bought my car, it had a second battery installed in the usual position that Nissan allows for it - above the exhaust manifold & turbo, also in front of the gas injection system ie, not the coolest position possible. Even Toyota does it better by placing the batteries up the front of the engine compartment. Batteries work ideally at 25 degrees, not 80!
The dual battery system was fed by a solenoid (el-cheapo system) & the aux battery was lasting a max of 12 months (11 for one). I have a 60L Trail Blazer fridge/freezer in the back of the wagon.

I replaced the solenoid with a C-Tek DC-DC charger (mine is 20A but is expandable), you can use Redarc (25A up to 40A), Projecta (similar) & the last battery, I fitted lasted 2.5 years which was a much better result. A hot battery risks the chance of a shorter life, leakage & at worst, a battery explosion.
Redarc DC-DC chargers have the advantage that they can work in temps of 80 degrees where as the C-Tec is tolerant of temps 20 degrees less. For that reason, it is fitted up front behind the grill. A temperature sensor goes on to or near the battery to ensure it gets the correct charge for the temp. It doesn't mean that the battery will be fully charged though.

macka17 · Guru

Craig.

Those solenoid Redaurc came with the Ark.

THEY decide when to charge wing battery.

I have an electronic one. does a better job all round.
PLUS.
Has a push switch, somewhere to suit you.

That diverts charging power to wing.
WHENEVER you decide to push button.

When using van.
I usually give alt 15\20 min's to top up car battery.

Then touch sw, and charging goes to wing battery. Sweet.