Finally, after years of running low cost generators, I splashed out and bought a Honda EU-20i. I got an excellent price of $1550 with a free cover thrown in.
Although the cheap gens have been generally OK they have always had some issues, hopefully the Honda will not.
I'm currently running it in and once that process is complete intend to run it on synthetic oil. Honda do not recommend synthetic oil because they haven't trialed the generator on it and, I suspect, do not want to take the slightest chance of problems arising. Does anyone have any comments of the wisdom of using synthetic in this gen?
I'm using the following running-in procedure - pinched from somewhere on the net: ---- 1). Put a middle-grade NON-synthetic into the engine. Generally this will be a 10w30 general oil like Pennzoil, etc. Start the engine on the eco-mode setting and let it warm-up without a load for 10 minutes.
2). Put a 300-400 watt load on the genny (a hair-dryer on low?) and let it run for 15 minutes.
3). Put a 600-700 watt load on the genny and run it for 15 minutes.
4). Put a 1000 watt load on the genny and run it for 15 minutes.
5). Put a 1500 watt load on the genny and run it for an hour.
6). Change the oil. Replace with non-synthetic 10W30. Repeat the above once.
7). At the next oil change, switch to 0W20 (or 0W30) synthetic oil.
8). Run the engine under various loads for 8 hours. Drain and replace with synthetic.
At this point you have a fully broken-in engine that will handle anything you can throw at it. If you keep up with the oil change schedule (25 hours) and use exclusively a 0W20 (or 0W30) synthetic oil, this engine can easily run 5000+ hours. Street vendors routinely get 7000 hours before a major overhaul. ----
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"I beseech you in the bowels of Christ think it possible you may be mistaken"
Oliver Cromwell, 3rd August 1650 - in a letter to the General Assembly of the Kirk of Scotland
Indeed an good buy
Not many people has problems with them
You now belong to a club of many ( I'm wandering how many they made over the years )
Good price to
Also there is an new model coming soon
That is a lot of trouble to run in a generator ?? I am not sure if I would run it on idle for the first run like that and then continuous low loads. It is generally recommended that a motor needs some full throttle use early on, to bed the rings in. Otherwise the bore and rings may become glazed Hmmm
Also why use 0w20 ? Honda does not list 0W20 as recommended for any temperatures I believe. 5w30 is the thinnest they recommend even down to below -20 deg, and up to 15w40 in hotter weather. I could not see any reason to go lower than 5w-30 and the 0w is never needed IMHO.
I have heard it said that synthetic oil may result in more leaking from the seals. But I have no experience either way.
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Tuesday 8th of August 2017 08:23:10 PM
We purchased our EU201 at the NSW Caravan & Camping Show around Easter 2010.
They provided with the booklet a flyer:-
Run generator under load with "eco throttle" in the OFF for the first tank of fuel.
At this point change the oil and replace with 10W 30. After this time you may run the gennie as normal using the "eco throttle". Oil changes are recommended at 50/100 hours.
Also recommended NOT to leave fuel in gennie for long periods of time. Also suggested that you run your gennie once a month.
So, having our gennie for 7 plus years and living nearly full time on the road after following the above instructions.
I have a gennie that runs IBIS aircon, skillet, jugs, toasters and backs up all our charging requirements. Mind you all things mentioned are not on at the same time.
Also can run gernie to wash down the van and vacum cleaner.
It has NOT BEEN SERVICED or a plug changed and starts first time every time.
hi
Most engines donot like running in on synthetic oils . Without getting technical ,first change after first tank then every 50hrs . Keep using mineral for the first 100hrs .
Use suggested weight of oil for temp 10w--30 , 5w--30 , 10w--40 in hot weather .
The engine relies on splash feed a lot so donot use a 15w--40
Piston ring design and
cylinder bore finish also has a big influence on oil type used
I just get the Honda Oil from a Honda dealer and use that. I get my 20i serviced by a Honda dealer every 2 years and do an inbetween oil change myself. I try and run the 20i fuel dry when I know I am not going to use for some time. Seems to work ok for me.
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Live Life On Your Terms
DOUGChief One Feather (Losing feathers with age)
TUG.......2014 Holden LT Colorado Twin Cab Ute with Canopy
DEN....... 2014 "Chief" Arrow CV (with some changes)
There are others as good. cheaper with more power Yammie etc.
Mine is a Chinese $450 special. around 7 yrs. runs 2 houses and 1 Air cond in Cyclones.
Aircond and full van on ECO. or 2 caravans together.
Started every time withing 4 pulls. (even this morning)
changed one plug so far.
Don't play around "running in" on nil and light loads.
Must admit though. AFTER initial running time on all I owned.
I go to Full SYnth. at first change.
Those small engines. (as most do)
Need running in with a part load. then full load.
to bed in rings\bearings. and stop any Glazing on bores.
Most Industrial type engines. ARE designed to run at or above. 3\4 throttle.
ALL the time they running.
The throttle linkages are preset to control MAX working load ev's.
so they will last.
It amuses me that the "net" has more knowledge and expertise than the R&D department of a massive engine/auto manufacturer.
When I am finished using mine (and any single cylinder engine) I bring it up to compression stroke, that way the chamber is mostly sealed to the atmosphere. To do this pull the starter cord untilk You can feel compression.
Jaahn: >That is a lot of trouble to run in a generator
I don't think it's much trouble at all, with a bit of luck this gen will last for many years and I'm happy to give it a good start in life :)
Running on idle: that is a 10m warm up period, perfectly reasonable to get the oil to the right viscosity.
No way would I put a new engine on full load immediately! Keep in mind we are grinding metal here, lets start doing so slowly and gradually build up.
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JohnR: Unfortunately Honda do not provide any running-in instructions in the owners manual.
No doubt one can ignore running-in and the gen will work OK but I'll argue it will work better and longer if it is run-in.
>It has NOT BEEN SERVICED
Do you mean it's been running with the same oil for seven years?! If so then I *strongly* recommend you change the oil ASAP.
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Swamp: >Most engines donot like running in on synthetic oils
That is my understanding too and the reason the running-in procedure I am using requires mineral oil.
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Macka17: >There are others as good. cheaper with more power Yammie etc.
The Yamaha is dearer - and it's certainly more than the $1550 I paid.
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Magnarc: >When all else fails, read the instructions!!!!!
Yes we did. Now we are discussing the pros and conns surrounding them, that is the purpose of a discussion forum.
May I suggest that if you don't like extended discussions that you don't enter into them and clutter them up if you have nothing useful to contribute - there is far too much of that on this site and it makes it very difficult to have in-depth threads. Signal to noise ratio problem.
----
I've almost completed the running-in procedure but I think I'll keep it on mineral oil for another 10 or so hours then switch to synthetic, Mobil 1 5W-30 is looking good currently.
I have an hour meter on order which I think is $13 well spent.
I took a look at the gen output on an oscilloscope today; a very nice sine wave with no observable distortion at 235V RMS and a frequency of 49.8Hz.
I also ran the gen on a 2300W resistive load for about 10 seconds and it was happy with that - it may well support a higher load, I'll try that later but it does look like a capable gen for starting ACs and the like.
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"I beseech you in the bowels of Christ think it possible you may be mistaken"
Oliver Cromwell, 3rd August 1650 - in a letter to the General Assembly of the Kirk of Scotland
I would agree with above posters, do not "run in" an engine with light loads.
Drain the current oil, fill with your preferred oil.
run for 5 minutes or so to warm up on light or no loading.
Check the oil level and for loose screws, etc
Run again on full load for 10 minutes, stop, let cool.
Warm up unloaded 2 minutes then again for 10 minutes on full load
Change oil and treat it like you stole it from then on
Works like this for me after 30 years of bike riding.
You are -as you say- grinding metal. But you DONT want to do it gradually, you want to do it straight off when the metal is still new and soft. Then you want that metal (now at its running tolerance) to be buffed and shined and polished.
All your "grindings" come off early and settle out as large bits into the sump. Or at least thats the theory. In reality the fine machining tolerances nowdays negate most of the run-in required.
Apart from clean oil and lots of circulated, fresh air when running -the important point is to RUN IT HARD, don't be soft on a stationary engine. Especially dont try to top up your battery, leave that to solar. If you think you are going to be short on battery charge then push in heaps of amps early in the day, run with a charger as well if possible, fully loading the genset. "Eco mode" is a waste of time and noise. Punch it in hard then shut it off and enjoy the quiet.
A work ute lasts longer than the molly-coddled family car driven twice weekly to the shops.
A mower will die in a tenth the operating hours compared to "old mate" running a pump down the creek, a 205 litre drum as the fuel tank. Yet both are exactly the same engine.
Just buy it and use it for what it was intended to do . Do not let it destroy your life worrying about it - Honda has already done the design, worrying ,theorising and endurance testing for you. It won't let you down. (I have used Honda stationary engines for 50 years in commercial applications without a single problem. They did not get any special warm ups, run ins or oils either.)
Yrs ago.
I was reading a bit on different things.
You can never know enuff.
From memory. Honda, and some others. Bench run their small as well as the big motors.
To bed them in and ensure none will come back soon.
I did see pic's of rows of engines all chuffing happily away to themselves.
And leave the original Mineral oil in there too.
It NORMALLY. Has factory running in additives in there.
so they can collect any loose bits\swarf on first 10? hr service drop.
Just to be sure.
QC I believe it's called.
But as above. Do NOT run an unloaded engine. specially when tight and new.
A glazed bore is, basically a new engine
Cost to you.
a 1kw Fan heater is a nice constant load. not on long runs though.
Let it heat and cool down a bit..
I ran this one in (3.5kva). running van and it's Air cond
24\7 for 2 weeks when it new. on ECO. 1\4 to 1\2 load.
Stopped twice a day for checks. but kept warm.
31kg. wheels and extendable handle. Runs everything. easily.
Room to spare.
Running in ANY motor. is better for it to have.
Long Constant running. Variable loading. Light at beginning.
Heavier as it progresses.
I did my Patrol in one hit.
Melb to Adel. round Adel hills for 1 day. Back to Melb.
Then load up van and move up here.
That was it's first week of life.
Ran perfect for over 14 yrs. Towing mainly.
Still going today. No problems.
I used to have job of running in all the bosses new excavators. Dozers and draglines
when he bought them. for over 20 yrs.
First 100 hrs. Usually the first week of work. We did long hrs in those days.
(Good wages).
I have always worked off the advice below, from some different sources also. I guess it applies to new motors as well. I would say the bore and rings are the only parts which need running in. The cams might sometimes but these Hondas have plastic lobes(and other brands too) so that is not a wear point like a car engine with direct tappets. The shafts and bearings are finished to a high specs so no problem there.The small engine is a low stressed design and does not have high loaded parts.
So this is what ACL say re running in a rebuild.I have always done this even for small engines. Make your own conversion of miles to hours
ACL Piston Products
Runing In
Do not let the engine idle for long periods. Subject the engine to several bursts of acceleration from
60-90 km/hr as soon as possible. This builds up pressure behind the rings and assists in bedding
in. Avoid sustained high speeds and loads during first 2-3000 km.
First Oil Change
This should be as soon as possible and certainly before 500km. Change the filter as well. Use SAE
15W/40 or SAE 20W/50 oil unless engine manufacturer's own specification calls for a particular
grade.
Cheers Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Thursday 10th of August 2017 12:24:42 PM
-- Edited by Jaahn on Thursday 10th of August 2017 01:29:10 PM
hi
All
Technically it all depends on many things .
Has the engine been run-in or just run at factory to check output .Last suggestion is the most likely. Remember its not a Ferrari .
Piston ring design
Cylinder bore material
Cylinder bore hone marks Quality and Angle all have influence on running in .
Anything air cooled particular invertor gene are high stressed because they are in an enclosed box to start with . Evidence is by how many invertor gene that run hot is the amount of electronics that fail due to heat.
Air cooled === synthetic oil for long life better protection cooler running
Air cooled always operate closer to detonation than a water cooled unit
5w-30 or 10w--30 oil is an economy based oil . Must be revised if operating in a warm /hot climate eg 10w--40 synthetic in hot climates
Synthetic will also help cool and degrade slower than mineral . Main attributes of syn oil .
Running in many 1/2 to 3/4 runs with occasional full throttle bursts for the first 2 tanks . [try to vary load ]. Mineral oil till 100hrs .
Oil will last a way way longer under 100 deg cel than if it runs hotter . Most machines run a lot hotter .
Oil will protect the metal far better as well ==less wear
My Honda and my Genuine Aldi set got run for an hour running floodies in the shed then went to work with at least a 30min run each month when not used, oil is Penrite 5/30 I think not synthetic first change about 25 hrs and 50 odd after, probably should do another, but air filters get clean/checked regularly.
Like my chainsaw and others small engines never leave fuel in them more than a couple of weeks any longer and will store dry. have found the if it all works well leave it alone to have kept my gear running for years and years.
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Checking out the places I drove past a thousand times................
The hour meter arrived yesterday. It has a trailing wire which is to be wrapped around the HT lead to the spark plug in order that the meter can count spark plug pulses and calculate RPM and how long the engine is running. The instruction say wrap the wire around the HT lead 3 or 4 turns so, naturally, I wrapped it around 5 turns :) And, equally naturally, the meter didn't work. It seems the Honda puts a goodly amount of energy into the spark plug and, with five turns, too much was coupling into the meter and upsetting its microcontroller - reducing the turns to two solved the issue.
Just for the record, I believe I could say without fear of contradiction, that NO small engine is run in at the factory. It has been a lot of years since I have seen the video of one big brand building them, but almost untouched by human hands then and run only long enough to see they run, sound OK and set the idle. No petrol in the tank either as the fumes would be dangerous in the box in transport I think I remember 7 minutes an engine to build, beginning to boxed. Possibly much less these days.
I would say the big advances in small engine design have been in cost reduction to compete with China but retain the quality features. Honda always sold on the instant start and in my experience do so if you followed the simple instructions. If they did not then they had a specific fault. I do not believe I could say that about most other makes. However I had little experience with Yamahas.
I had some experience with cheap Chinese pumps some years back. Some did not last the month out on heavy pumping ?? The oil usage was sometimes astonishing. However as always some people had a good run. Like generators, some people swear by them, some swear at them
Hmmm
