Emergency services, very disapointed.

iana · Guru

Emergency services, very disapointed.

the rocket · Guru

Hi iana, sorry to hear this. Was wondering how far u r from the fire station?

Possum3 · Guru

In many cases Brigades are "delayed" Because they are Attending some Emergency (car wreck comes to mind), at another Fire, Absent from Station because of Hoax calls (Stupid bomb threats etc).
In this current Heat Wave units are busy putting out minor fires started by idiots disregarding Fire Bans.
Brigades can be delayed by having to re-fill their Pumper trucks.
Brigades can be delayed in some areas as they are only manned by Volunteers - that have to be assembled.
I feel sorry for the owner/occupants of the burned flat, but Fire Brigade members also feel the frustration of not being able to effect a save situation.

I am sure if you go down to your local Fire Station they will be able to reassure you they were not in the pub just hanging around.

daffyfrancis · Senior Member

I don't about other states but here in Tassie a lot of our rural area towns are supported by only unpaid volunteer fire brigade persons & some ambulance services have volunteer drivers - they do a magnificent job & do regular training during after work hours & whilst their mates are at the pub or home with their families - perhaps we all should pay more taxes & governments properly fund essential services.

David

iana · Guru

I think most of us who were at the scene realized how much of a wake up call it was, a garden hose will make no difference, so an investment in a tank and fire pump would be a good insurance. I had that in the country as we were on our own until the volunteer brigade arrived. You have a house fire in this climate, the house is gone.

hako · Guru

Straight after any event involving emergency services there is a full and comprehensive review of the event. Every factor is taken into account, every emergency person involved is recorded and each will make their own notes. These will then be collated and a final report done. If there were improvements possible they will be actioned,
The reason is simple - insurance claims. If the insurance company can offload some of the liability they will.

Regards.

blaze · Guru

iana wrote:
This evening I was outside in the backyard of the hose, and I could smell smoke, we get smoke from bush fires all the time, but this smelt different. Walking out the front I saw smoke just down the road, called the wife and we ran down the road to where a flat was on fire. The woman occupant was rescued but burnt, not looking good but was being attended. Others had a hose on the flames, and I hunted for another, found a tap, and handed it to one of the guys nearer the flames, there was a hedge in the way for me.
Anyway the flames were so intense now that the two hoses would make no impact, so where was the fire brigade, we had asked on arriving if they had been called and yes. Then the Police rock up, but where is the fire brigade, and the ambulance. Well the house is now truly gutted, and the house and flat on each side in danger of catching, but where is the fire brigade.
Eventually we hear sirens and the fire engines have arrive, did eventually see a medical attendant with the injured person. When I went back to my house the injured person was still on the ground. The flat just charred remains. I hope that I don't have a house fire.
Note I have edited the story, and toned it down, but if that's the best that my taxes and rates can do, I am not impressed.

-- Edited by iana on Friday 16th of February 2018 12:55:26 AM

Very sorry you feel like that BUT walk in the shoe of the emergency services for a day, they don't get it right all the time but you can bet your last dollar they tried

cheers

blaze

iana · Guru

Maybe someone can tell me the roles of the big appliance (pump), and the little appliance (Flick). This picture shows three fire appliances all jammed in there, and a long hose set up to a hydrant outlet up the road. One appliance was the rescue unit arriving a little later. I would have thought it made more sense, if the larger appliance pulled up to fight the fire, having pumps hoses and a large water tank, and the smaller (Flick the little engine) parked up by the hydrant. It took several rolls of hose, helped by the public, plus much messing around digging out the ground so the stack could be connected. If Flick was at the hydrant outlet valuble time would have been saved. It didn't really matter as the unit was well and truly burnt out by then. Its amazing the two adjacent house and unit didn't go up as well. We could well and truly see the value of the fire walls.

Izabarack · Guru

It takes more then 11 minutes for an appliance to get from my nearest station to my home location. Add some time for the crew to get dressed and into the vehicle. Add some time after arriving on the scene to assess the situation and location and potential threats to the crew. Probably lots of reasons for the time taken for the fire appliance to arrive.

Iza

TheHeaths · Guru

Everyone's an expert aren't they.

How long did this all take Ian? Often an emergency can seem to take a long time, but happens relatively quickly. Was it 5 minutes, 10 minutes, or did it just seem a long time?

Where did the emergency services have to come from, and what was traffic like where they came from?

Was access to the street easy? I see a several private vehicles by the look of it and a crowd of onlookers.

You say the fireplug needed digging out. How long did that take?

I am certain all the services made every effort to get there as fast as possible, and would be disappointed that the unit was destroyed, but it is unfair to express disappointment at those who continually put themselves at the forefront of all the emergencies that happen every day.

They face trauma and risk every time they climb into their vehicles. They are abused and attacked by drunks and drug addicts. They have to pull broken people from all sorts of accidents and fires, and then tell their families of the loss. And then you have the gall to say "if that's the best my rates and taxes can do, I am not impressed."

Sorry Ian, but stick to your day job. I know who I trust to do the right thing if I am in an emergency!

RustyD · Guru

My daughter works for 000. She's a second level person after the original person determines what emergency service(s) are required. Takes the police but regularly has to co-ordinate the other services. She'd defend response times of all emergency services with gusto. Spend a day at 000 or in a police, ambulance or fire station and you'll understand. Both first and second level call takers have to weed out all the crap calls.

iana · Guru

You know "the rocket" I don't know where they live, I do know they used to hid around the back of the shopping complex at C0ckburn Central, in the near the loading bay at the back of Coles, but I don't shop there reg anymore.

They all (Fire, Police & Ambulance) seem to roar up and down the main road near here all day long it seems. So knowing how to get here would not have been difficult.

Just Googled it, the station is quite close, only about 15kms away.

-- Edited by iana on Saturday 17th of February 2018 01:11:38 AM

-- Edited by iana on Saturday 17th of February 2018 01:24:33 AM

Leo · Senior Member

I have no idea what contributed to any delay in this case.

However, in most areas there has been a losing battle over many years, decades, to keep infrastructure up with the excessive population growth through mass immigration set by the Canberra feds. Immigration numbers include the concealed effect of international students and contract workers.

Referring to the value obtained from Council rates, I don't imagine homeowners could be taxed any more, with many older persons being forced out of the homes in which they raised their family and where they have their supports and are familiar with the area. State and federal taxes are also high, ramped up by the passed-on costs of user-pays, commodification of utilities such as charging per litre for water and restrictions on services.

But then there are the compounding effects of population density and more regulations (an example could be requirements for gender and multicultural equity of outcome and now!), where the public and private sectors are never given breathing space to manage the complexities and find optimal solutions.

Recently a close relative, a woman, died far too young because the ambulance was slow. However, that does not imply any fault of the ambulance service which, as well as the many 'progressive' policy requirements that require more attention and more senior staff in administration (contributing to a management overhead, in lieu of more staff at the 'sharp end'), is very affected by the road and traffic chaos from over-fast population growth that exceeds that of Third World countries. But the problems have been piling up for many years and a male friend was also died around fifteen years ago for a similar combination of reasons.

To top it all off there are the consequences illicit and drugs and alcohol.

Federal governments need to stop pretending that 'growth' is them doing a good for 'the economy' and give Local and State government, the public too, a breather through a brake on immigration and population growth.

iana · Guru

Leo, I agree, when I looked up where the fire stations are located, the C0ckburn one certainly has to cover a large area, and I can tell you we have many fire bugs continualy lighting fires in Kwinana, Rockingham and Munster, that brigade should be well practiced. Perhaps more little Flicks (the small land-cruiser appliance) dotted about would handle most jobs. In this case if the appliance had have arrived earlier, a little Flick would have done the job. Why the Rescue Tender arrived has me beat, the ambulance would have been more appropriate.
I would say the Fire engines took 30 minutes plus to arrive, came the wrong way down the street meaning more turns, used a hydrant connection that was 100 meters away, instead of a closer and more servicable one. To top it off while a paramedic was tending to the burnt woman, they had to manhandle her on a blanket to another position to spray water on her, and I still never saw an ambulance. The woman and medic are just visible in the right most point in the photo, where another woman is standing.

-- Edited by iana on Saturday 17th of February 2018 11:42:55 AM

Leo · Senior Member

Well at least our overlords the federal pollies on both sides are doing OK while they address those most serious matters affecting the electorate, such as 'love'.

Has anyone heard of the expensive security fence (costing around $11.6 million first up) around Parliament House in Canberra? The security fence with the pop-up bollards that destroy Commonwealth (as in taxpayer funded) limos?

www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/the-bollards-eating-comcars-security-measures-destroy-cars-at-parliament-house-20180208-p4yzsf.html

iana · Guru

Leo, I posted my thoughts, because I and many of the others attending at the scene thought that it was a poor effort. I was not intending for the thread to be come political, but yes I have worked for local government and seen how that works, I now no longer have any confidence in any of them. It must be remembered, birds of a feather flock together, and government could not be a better example of this.

Leo · Senior Member

Yes, I agree and I have no interest in the red, blue or whatever coloured teams.

Just to say that the policies set in Canberra and which suit federal politicians, in this case the Sacred Cow of a 'Big Australia' and 'Growth' and the endless mass immigration to achieve it - for which neither side of politics has ever been given a mandate - is the prime contributing factor.

Credit, or in this case, brickbats, where credit is due. It isn't the firefighters, ambos, police or whoever. They are doing the best they can.

brickies · Guru

One of the most common causes of delay in emerency responce is the delay in making the OOO Call by by standers

Leo · Senior Member

I think you may find that for Queensland for instance, concerns about QAS (ambo) response times have been expressed in the State Parliament. I think it was John-Paul Langbroek who was monitoring and raised the alarm, but the concerns are not new.

The daily traffic reports will confirm the extended periods of traffic gridlock in the Brisbane metropolitan, major arterials, surrounding areas and Gold Coast. The Gold Coast, which has absorbed a lot of interstate and overseas migration, is reputed to be Qld's worst place to get an ambulance.
Motorcycle ambos have been recommended. A motorcycle might not be the solution where the Fire Brigade is concerned.

Bassett52 · Veteran Member

It was told to me by a Firefighter that the reason the Police and Ambos often get to the scene of a fire sooner than the Firies is because the Police and Ambos usually have vehicles already on the road either on patrol (in the case of Police) or Ambos that are on their way back from a callout and therefore could already be in the area whereas the Firies have to come from their Station which could be a lot further away. Police and Ambos are always called to the scene of a structure fire.

blaze · Guru

for all the winggers, go and volunteer for the local, you may only be able to mop the floor but it all helps
ex volunteer firery
cheers
blaze

RustyD · Guru

Bassett52 wrote:
It was told to me by a Firefighter that the reason the Police and Ambos often get to the scene of a fire sooner than the Firies is because the Police and Ambos usually have vehicles already on the road either on patrol (in the case of Police) or Ambos that are on their way back from a callout and therefore could already be in the area whereas the Firies have to come from their Station which could be a lot further away. Police and Ambos are always called to the scene of a structure fire.

Been told that too. Also, probably not in the case mentioned, but firies and ambos wont attend certain trouble spots until police are already there.

madaboutled · Guru

Sorry, but I don't think this topic warrants discussion.

Personally I believe that all Emergency Services do a wonderful job considering the pressure and limited resources they have. Further, many are volunteers and IMHO "very disappointed" is an insult to these men and women who risk their lives for the benefit of the community regardless how you try to put it.

-- Edited by madaboutled on Sunday 18th of February 2018 12:26:30 PM

Bassett52 · Veteran Member

madaboutled wrote:
Sorry, but I don't think this topic warrants discussion.
Personally I believe that all Emergency Services do a wonderful job considering the pressure and limited resources they have. Further, many are volunteers and IMHO "very disappointed" is an insult to these men and women who risk their lives for the benefit of the community regardless how you try to put it.

-- Edited by madaboutled on Sunday 18th of February 2018 12:26:30 PM

X2

-- Edited by Bassett52 on Sunday 18th of February 2018 12:39:27 PM

Leo · Senior Member

RustyD wrote:
[snip] Also, probably not in the case mentioned, but firies and ambos wont attend certain trouble spots until police are already there.

Police aren't too keen on entering some areas after dark too. The new sport of hurling rocks at emergency vehicles. A follow-on from throwing rocks at vehicles from pedestrian walkways over freeways.

Some day soon, communities are going to have to take their own problems in hand, which means doing something about their feral kids.

Blues Man · Guru

Bassett52 wrote:
madaboutled wrote:
Sorry, but I don't think this topic warrants discussion.
Personally I believe that all Emergency Services do a wonderful job considering the pressure and limited resources they have. Further, many are volunteers and IMHO "very disappointed" is an insult to these men and women who risk their lives for the benefit of the community regardless how you try to put it.

-- Edited by madaboutled on Sunday 18th of February 2018 12:26:30 PM
X2

-- Edited by Bassett52 on Sunday 18th of February 2018 12:39:27 PM

X3

Santa · Guru

The original poster made a valid observation, of course the subject should be discussed.

Yes, most emergency services people do a good job, doesn't mean there is no room for improvement.

iana · Guru

Yes Santa, there may be room for improvement, I made my point, and anyone who wishes to say otherwise can have a talk to the woman who was put in an induced come for smoke inhalation and burns to her body. It could be that if our fire appliances are so few and far between, we may have to begin some sort of community system of having the ability to put the stack pipe into the hydrant take off point, and have some hoses at our disposel.
Those minutes lost would have made a difference. I know everyone is so job protective, and of course the public liability laws would probably styfull any ideas that come up. However at a winery where I worked we had a full fire system, complete with hoses etc, with the CFS's blessing.
We both wondered what more we should have been able to do, as the feeling of just waiting for services to arrive makes one feel pretty hopeless.
I note that the local paper had a article about a fire where the services arrived within 15 minutes, and the house was saved pat on the back. But no mention of this one though.
As far as I am concerned I have made the point, and perhaps the subject should be closed.

Mike Harding · Guru

Santa wrote:
The original poster made a valid observation, of course the subject should be discussed.
Yes, most emergency services people do a good job, doesn't mean there is no room for improvement.

Well said.

Tony Bev · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
Santa wrote:
The original poster made a valid observation, of course the subject should be discussed.
Yes, most emergency services people do a good job, doesn't mean there is no room for improvement.

Well said.

Ditto to the above

Back in the day, as one of many volunteer firemen, we use to periodically check every fire hydrant in our jurisdiction