Arm youself

Ron-D · Guru

RE: Arm youself

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

confuse what was harmless or amusing about this question "Do you carry a weapon for protection. Have u ever had to use a weapon to protect yourself."

Praps hiding under a rock could be a ruse to protect oneself from a threatened attack.

Cheers - John

Leo · Senior Member

DMaxer wrote:
I already answered it. Accused do not have to prove anything, the onus always rests with the prosecution. Surely you all have better things to think about at Easter or any other time for that matter, than hypertheticals about belting imaginary intruders. Happy Easter.

One would have thought that the comments by the senior barrister Bill Potts, Southport Qld, in the link given by rockylizard would have been addressed, but no, and it was definitely NOT an imaginary intruder.

As another quick example off the top of my head, what about the Weapons Act where it is incumbent upon the accused to prove that the orange peeler he had on his person, or that folding knife (and lets exclude the already prohibited ones) in the fourby centre console is not a weapon?

Yes, in court and after $30k for a lawyer and barrister that the unlucky target of a zealous cop or one that had a bit of the proverbial on his liver may be cleared of charges. However even if so, s/he would still be very inconvenienced and $30k minimum lighter in the wallet.

Remembering that in the example given the unfortunate individual would have been carrying that 'weapon' (as claimed by the police) for totally innocent and practical purposes.

Also, lets forget the usual retort that no cop would ever exercise his discretion against any but those who are acting suspiciously, or if the citizen isn't doing any wrong, s/he doesn't have anything to fear. See this news report and it is only one of many and by the way, how many here know that the inside of their car is now defined by law in NSW (other jurisdictions?) as a 'public place'?

'Fisherman fined $300 for carrying knife in car'

https://www.frasercoastchronicle.com.au/news/anglers-warned-to-store-knives-safely-out-of-sight/2423834/

Make that $300 plus the costs of his unsuccessful defence.

The example of a knife was chosen to fit with the discussion, however most would be aware that there has been a persistent drift to on the spot fines. The value of discussions like this one is that we can revise our presumptions and intuition as to how new laws and interpretations might affect us and hopefully steer ourselves away from ending up 'sucking it up' by paying a fine, or paying lawyers (money well spent in these cases though).

-- Edited by Leo on Saturday 31st of March 2018 09:57:04 AM

-- Edited by Leo on Saturday 31st of March 2018 10:03:01 AM

DMaxer · Guru

Yes, perhaps I could have John. I find it irritating however when people feel the need to inform the masses in the most strident terms when they have no qualifications to do so. I received a junior first aid certificate when I was in primary school but do not feel the need to give orthopaedic advise. The law relating to self defence, like most areas has evolved over hundreds of years and is no condensed into a two line definition nor a quote from the local rag. Now that is my speech and it is back to the race form. Now that is an important subject where all views are listened to by me!

Leo · Senior Member

Check the first post and link from the Prospecting Australia site and the link it referred to and given below,

"The knife laws in NSW are a worry , check out the story of a couple of hunters who copped a heavy fine !

Imagine not being allowed to take a knife on a prospecting trip yikes"

http://www.sportingshooter.com.au/news/hunters-fined-for-knife-possession

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Yes like I have sex every so often . But it doesnât make me a porn star ! Lol

DMaxer · Guru

I know what the law is Leo. I am not interested in some half baked account in a sporting magazine that has more than likely left out all the relevant facts. There is a difference between someone taking a knife fishing and someone taking a knife down to the club. A carpenter can take a hammer to work but he cant take it out shopping, without lawful excuse.

Do you also rely on those publications for your medical advice?

Leo · Senior Member

DMaxer wrote:
I know what the law is Leo. I am not interested in some half baked account in a sporting magazine that has more than likely left out all the relevant facts. There is a difference between someone taking a knife fishing and someone taking a knife down to the club. A carpenter can take a hammer to work but he cant take it out shopping, without lawful excuse.

Do you also rely on those publications for your medical advice?

Sources you discount or ignore,

Southport lawyer Bill Potts was quoted in The Huffington Post, news.com.au and links were given. It is easy to source confirming reports in The Courier Mail and The Gold Coast Bulletin.
SSAA is a credible organisation made up of thousands of law-abiding, licensed members that are citizens from all walks of life. SSAA publishes a journal that provides all of the necessary information for due diligence.
A news report from Yahoo.news, wherein an Australian Senator was also quoted.
Fraser Coast Chronicle news article

-All sources were duly linked to for reference.

I am a lay person and I would be more inclined to take notice of those sources on the issues being discussed.

At this stage maybe you might care to lay out your relevant legal expertise.

brickies · Guru

I am waiting for the story in the New Idea to find out the facts .

Leo · Senior Member

For others I would be saying that from my lay person's reading of news reports and other sources, the preferred choice has to be the proactive one, of taking notice of sage campers: go and do it, while at the same time ensuring that and risks are handled up-front and with practical commonsense. There is advice on here and it is silly not to take notice.

Next, if you ever have had to defend yourself and/or your loved ones, get a lawyer fast.

Finally, because the laws and their interpretations can change, it is always necessary to keep up to date. For example, in NSW (other jurisdictions?), YOUR vehicle is now defined as a 'public place' and that does impact on you. So check it out. Because if there is a random inspection and they are commonplace, for alcohol etc., and there can be searches, anyhow you don't want to be running the risk of a charge under the Weapons Act.

Many 4X4 owners have a folding knife (but NOT a prohibited knife) in the centre console or stowed convenient to hand to remove a seat belt one-handed , to break glass and so on. Who wants to be upside down in a seat belt?

-- Edited by Leo on Saturday 31st of March 2018 01:58:51 PM

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Keep a full hot kettle handy ..

Travel Bug · Guru

brickies wrote:
I am waiting for the story in the New Idea to find out the facts .

biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin

gandk · Senior Member

I think the best reply is the very large mens work boots outside the door. Love it

grahos · Guru

If camping out of town you need to be at least 20 kms out of town.

IAN zzz · Veteran Member

Yes Graeme

I agree totally with that.

I've been adhering to that "rule of thumb" for many years. Never had a problem.

For one night stops when actually traveling, I like behind gravel piles nearby to roadworks. Surprisingly quiet :)

the rocket · Guru

Travel Bug wrote:
brickies wrote:
I am waiting for the story in the New Idea to find out the facts .

biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin

pharken philsoni · Member

I would like to do what all you lucky people are doing. But wife just left and I am very scared also have 2 dogs. Got the van and tug

the rocket · Guru

Hello, did wife leave forever or has she just gone to the shops? What r u scared off, with 2 dogs, i do not expect anyone will bother u. Sorry for going off topic but could not resist.

Paull · Veteran Member

-- Edited by Paull on Monday 9th of April 2018 11:52:30 PM

Paull · Veteran Member

DMaxer wrote:
No, giving gratuitous legal advice is unprofessional. The only comment I will make is that excepting insanity, all defences being raised by an accused must be negated by the prosecution, not proven by an accused. The issue of lawful excuse is a statutory defence in itself. People are legally permitted to defend themselves, others and property. The force to be used and the need to apply it is a subjective test. Hysterical accounts from newspapers and like commentary is not a statement of the law just a deluded, uninformed view.

Are you referring to the charge of Murder? which this onus applies to.

matildatraveller · Guru

Hi fellow travellers, I have been keeping out of this discussion deliberately until now...All this chatter about arming yourself reminds me of what my older brothers taught me years ago..."You cannot subdude a man intent on harm, unless you break both his knee caps in one foul swoop!! A crippled man cannot chase".....

I say with tongue in cheek and personal experience... Travelling solo across this great country of ours for two years now without incident, I adhere to the following rules....... Always camp with others, never travel at night and go 100% with your gut feelings...If it tells you to move on, go with it... A final word to all the female solo travellers out there....'Be aware... But not afraid.' (and a size 12 mens boots are always outside my door when I camp) Gwynnie

Farmhat · Senior Member

I already have 2 but I could use an extra hand sometimes. biggrin

Joe

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Is that where my boots got too ! Lol

Leo · Senior Member

Make sure those size 12 boots are 2nd hand thrift shop 'specials' and well past it. Wouldn't do to see them walking around town on one of the ferals wink biggrin

HiAce98 · Veteran Member

Mike Harding wrote:
"Why is it considered that a woman is "defenceless" but a man is not?

I'm a man - I'm a biggish bloke, 6', 100kg, reasonably fit, assertive,
confident and if anyone attempted to do bad things to me they, at the
least, would be badly hurt.

My chances of being raped are as close to zero as makes no difference.

My chances of being attacked for any other reason are almost as close
too - in other words I am safe in the bush. A woman is not as safe."

Well Mike, I'm sure you are better able to defend yourself than this 67yo woman with health issues .
However in 45 years of camping the only time when I was close to a problem was back in the '80s when I was camped in the northern part of Victoria with my son, and in the morning we heard on the news of an attack just over the border in NSW. A young couple was taken by surprise in their tent during the night, the husband badly beaten, the wife raped and all their stuff stolen. So, if you happen to be seriously unlucky then it can happen to anyone. But it is rare and I have not let it stop me doing what I want to do.
The only thing is that unless I am in a group I have always locked myself in my vehicle (whether station wagon or now campervan) when I go to sleep, and I have a dog with me. So it would be unlikely that I could be taken by surprise. If I feel uneasy I move on. Once upon a time I was sure I could physically defend myself too, as I'm about the same height and weight as you and used to be strong from farm work and skiing. But the years have snuck up on me and now I prefer to run away and life to fight another day

HiAce98 · Veteran Member

the rocket wrote:
Hello, did wife leave forever or has she just gone to the shops? What r u scared off, with 2 dogs, i do not expect anyone will bother u. Sorry for going off topic but could not resist.

Nah, he's probably just scared that he'll have to cook his own dinner

Lighten up folks, if you are reading this you are still alive!! Forums should be fun, informative and entertaining shouldn't they?

Lanock · Member

As a Solo woman nomad I have never had to resort to being armed. But commonsense means that over the years a caravan which requires a person to exit the vehicle before departure is a dangerous thing. Changing to a camper or motorhome is sensible so that you are able to move from the bed to the drivers seat and drive away if needed.

The old body also finds bhitching the van to the vehicle harder as you age so the camper/motorhome is the best idea.

Myself, I have had a number of vans and campers, graduating to a motorhome. In the years on the road, I have found what I need is comfort to live in and peace of mind.

This I have in my old motorhome, plus solar and sat tv. a gas fridge and I am self contained and can go anywhere, which I do.

No weapons, just common sense make your home on the road a safe place to be.

PLUS you make new friends.

Lanock · Member

WOW! You sure get involved on the forum.

My concern is for the fines now if you do not slow down when an emergency vehicle is flashing its lights. SA fines are for 25kld and qldd has 40kls.

HiAce98 · Veteran Member

brickies wrote:
I am waiting for the story in the New Idea to find out the facts .

You've spelled the name of the rag incorrectly brickies, it's No Idea biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin

LEN · Member

Len