LED Headlight swap- your old eyes will thank you :)

denmonkey · Senior Member

LED Headlight swap- your old eyes will thank you :)

Kezngaz1 · Newbie

Great review there brett.

Roy E · Senior Member

Brett,
I agree with Gareth, a great review. My Pajero Sport has LED headlights, which are really good but the fog lights are halogens and in comparison, useless. Have you replaced your fog light bulbs? Do you have any info on changing fog lights from Halogen to LED?
Thanks,
Roy.

Yuglamron · Guru

I have recently had to have a new bumper bar built for my MAN Motor Home after a Roo strike.

Decided to go 7" round LED Fully sealed. Designed for the Jeep wrangler but fits most 7" housings. They have Daylight running lights high/low beam and indicators all in the one housing.

I also have a High quality 20" LED Light bar on the Nudge bar.

I really don't need the light bar any more the 7" LED's are great, Longer distance throw and a better spread. Picks up the roadside markers nearly One K away.

One gripe though, some of the bigger Road signs can throw back a lot of light back at you at night on high beam. Small price to pay for much better vision.

My old Halogen 7 X 5's were woeful in comparison.

I would agree with Brett well worth going LED Headlights.

My circumstances meant the whole Light fitting but changing over to LED globes makes so much sense with the better lighting.

blaze · Guru

might be ok for you but what about the poor buggar coming towards you
cheers
blaze
ps
I believe they don't meet adr rules either

Dougwe · Chief one feather

I was about to ask the same thing about the on coming traffic and car in front of you if it affected them as being too bright.

LLD · Guru

Are these legal? Lots of lighting stuff that is readily available is illegal for on-road use. There is a plethora of rules on lights.

PeterD · Guru

blaze wrote:
might be ok for you but what about the poor buggar coming towards you
cheers
blaze
ps
I believe they don't meet adr rules either

Correct. All vehicle lighting is desgned as a whole package. The light fittings rely on the globe being the correct size with the filament in the correct location. If an incorrectly designed globe is substituted then the light spread will not be in accordance with the ADR rules. There is a standard - Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 51/00
Filament Lamps) 2006 - that all replacement lamps must adhere to. Download and look at that. You will see a section:

1. SCOPE
This Australian Design Rule (ADR) prescribes the dimensional and
photometric requirements for filament lamps which ensure
interchangeability and correct functioning when installed in a lamp unit.

If your new globes do not conform to that ADR I suggest you change them back.

In the past, I have improved my lights by running heavy wires from the battery to the lights and used the existing wiring to operate relays that connect the lights to the heavy wires at the required time.

iana · Guru

A week ago, traveling in convoy with eight other vans, checked in the rear view mirror, and called up on the radio, "I think you have your lights on hi beam", reply "No I haven't, they are LED's", that was in daylight.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

The main part is that low beam is infact LOW beam . Then there is no issues . I have found on our large-sh vehicles flood type reflectors are much better than than long distance, pencil type . Can see side of road and much much better on corners, hilly winding roads . To think we used 20 to 50 watt old fashioned lights a few years ago ? Have them as low beam and it seems I have turned the lights OFF !! In comparison!

denmonkey · Senior Member

HI all,

I'm hazarding a guess that those suggesting the the change is not suitable for the road have not watched the video
That's fine but I do show that there is a distinct cut off due to the projector headlight.

Here's a screenshot from the vid.

In my testing (LED vs Halogen), the above cut off does not change regardless of the globe inserted into the unit. I also make comment around using these in a reflector headlight system.

I did record a heap of footage talking about how when approaching another vehicle, the projected light does not come up past the lower edge of the other vehicles window line. It didn't make the cut in an attempt to keep the video short.

I also did some testing from in front of the vehicle with the camera to check for this issue. Even at 5'4 standing directly in front of the car, I was not dazzled by the lights.

In fact, I had to lower the camera down to about belly button :) height to get the lens to flare form the light.

Everything changes though, if you stick these into a reflector headlight assembly. Then you will get flare and be impacting on other road users.

A guy I know has these in a reflector headlight and gets flashed all the time, despite having angles the lenses downs

I've been running these for getting near 3 months and am yet to anyone flash me.

I've also followed friends and asked them about the lights and they have had no issues with them.

So based on my testing and my road use to date, these are fine provided they are used in a suitable projector assembly.

I hope that helps.

cheers Brett

LLD · Guru

The reason I asked about legality was that only a few years ago a major chain had to withdraw their LED car / bike globes. They were being fitted in inappropriate circumstances and at that point there was no lo-beam that cut down and to the left. They were also being put in fog & driving light housings and run during the day - which I believe is illegal anyway.

PeterD · Guru

denmonkey wrote:
I'm hazarding a guess that those suggesting the the change is not suitable for the road have not watched the video
That's fine but I do show that there is a distinct cut off due to the projector headlight.

The bottom line is, do they conform to the ARD requirements? If the box does not have something like ARD approved on it then you are not permitted to use them on the public roads.

Light globes are like many other things, it is not an offense to sell them. The offense is committed when you use them in the wrong application.

denmonkey · Senior Member

You're right Peter, you can even buy named brands like Narva off the shelf at the usual large automotive retailers.
You will find them marked not for road use or only for off road use.

Realistically though, how many people are swapping globes in and out depending on where they're driving.

Regardless, I'm confident with my testing that I'm not impacting the vision of other road users and will continue to use them.

If I start to get flashed as a result of using them, I'll reconsider my position accordingly.

cheers Brett

blaze · Guru

denmonkey wrote:
You're right Peter, you can even buy named brands like Narva off the shelf at the usual large automotive retailers.
You will find them marked not for road use or only for off road use.

Realistically though, how many people are swapping globes in and out depending on where they're driving.

Regardless, I'm confident with my testing that I'm not impacting the vision of other road users and will continue to use them.

If I start to get flashed as a result of using them, I'll reconsider my position accordingly.

cheers Brett

They are just a hazard to other road users, I wont flash you because that just increases the risk, but resy asured I wont think highly of you

blaze

denmonkey · Senior Member

blaze wrote:
They are just a hazard to other road users, I wont flash you because that just increases the risk, but resy asured I wont think highly of you
blaze

That's ok Blaze, I'll still make it through my day but rest assured, I still loves ya biggrin

dogbox · Guru

denmonkey wrote:

blaze wrote:
They are just a hazard to other road users, I wont flash you because that just increases the risk, but resy asured I wont think highly of you
blaze

That's ok Blaze, I'll still make it through my day but rest assured, I still loves ya

if you do a lot of night driving in the country, the truck drivers think your a pain in the ass! you might think your cool ,but when you keep looking at the extra bright lights all nite long the novelty wears thin like the cool dudes who drive around with their fog light on

fwdoz · Guru

There are so many drivers who have no idea how poorly adjusted their headlights are; pointing up in the trees to spot possums instead of directed at the bitumen & verge. Every week I check my headlight levels so as not to inconvenience other motorists. And about every 15th car has fog lights on, a right PITA.

Then there are the LED's which can give me a migraine. No wonder I try to avoid driving at night.

denmonkey · Senior Member

The legality aside, I think there may be some confusion between someone running a set of LEDs or HIDs for that matter, in a reflector assembly versus a projector assembly like in my pajero.
LEDs are now common in later model cars which are also fitted with projector lenses. Oncoming, you would not be able to identify my car with them retrofitted from another vehicle with them fitted as standard.

The ones that are causing you grief when travelling towards them are the ones in the reflector set ups or possibly as Bob mentioned above, wrongly leveled.

With regards to tuck drivers, I can assure you that if my lights are not making it above the door line of a sedan, there is no way they are causing trucks any issues.

Dogbox, the reason for the change was to improve the poor factory set up and provide a suitable (read - safe) level of vision when travelling at night.
If you think they look 'cool', I will take that as a compliment, but that was not on my radar when considering my options when seeking to make the headlights better.

cheers Brett

dogbox · Guru

I do not think they are cool but the issue not just with cars/4x4 ect with light that dazzle I also have a problem with trucks that are lit up like a party boat with far to many bright lights coming at you particularly on narrow country roads but then i'm starting to get on in years an my eyes are starting to fade an the windscreen seems to be getting thicker. maybe the time has come for me to give away the nite driving not that I do much these days(nights)

denmonkey · Senior Member

dogbox wrote:
I also have a problem with trucks that are lit up like a party boat with far to many bright lights coming at you particularly on narrow country roads but then i'm starting to get on in years an my eyes are starting to fade

I do often wonder how they get away with that.

Although I must admit some of the effort that goes into those big rigs is just amazing.

I think the eyes getting worse as we get older is a blessing in disguise. We can keep telling ourselves we still look like we did 20 years ago. Easy to do when you can't see all of your own 'experience lines' biggrin

denmonkey · Senior Member

LLD wrote:
The reason I asked about legality was that only a few years ago a major chain had to withdraw their LED car / bike globes. They were being fitted in inappropriate circumstances and at that point there was no lo-beam that cut down and to the left. They were also being put in fog & driving light housings and run during the day - which I believe is illegal anyway.

no comment on your reply but love the avatar.

Bit of a tron fan here biggrin

erad · Guru

There is a problem with fitting newer more powerful lights to existing headlamps which are not designed for them - glare to oncoming drivers. You may believe that your lights do not glare, but at times they must - for example when going over a speed hump or when cresting a hill. Even cars fitted with HID or LED lights as standard produce unacceptable glare in these conditions. And of course, I am getting older and grumpier and my eyes are nowhere near as good as they were. For this reason, if we have to do night driving, we use my Pajero instead of my wife's Outlander because we are sitting higher above the oncoming glare. Clean headlamp lenses and windscreens make a huge difference to the glare conditions as well. I must say though, the pictures above do show a sharp cutoff for the low beam and hopefully they won't dazzle too many people. remember that if they are dazzled then may well run into you and that is not good.

Greg 1 · Guru

If you own a Ranger or BT50 be aware that fitting LED's to the headlights will upset the body control module and do funny things to the whole electrical system. The reason for this is the BCM can tell when a globe is out by the resultant drop in current draw. Because LED's draw much less current, the BCM thinks a globe is out. There is an easy fix with a small inline black box available off eBay for about $20 which tricks the BCM into believing all is good. Other modern cars may well be the same if operating on a Canbus system.

Greg 1 · Guru

If you own a Ranger or BT50 be aware that fitting LED's to the headlights will upset the body control module and do funny things to the whole electrical system. The reason for this is the BCM can tell when a globe is out by the resultant drop in current draw. Because LED's draw much less current, the BCM thinks a globe is out. There is an easy fix with a small inline black box available off eBay for about $20 which tricks the BCM into believing all is good. Other modern cars may well be the same if operating on a Canbus system.

dogbox · Guru

I was under the impression the electrical systems are different between the ranger and the bt-50 I stand to be corrected if i'm missinformed

denmonkey · Senior Member

You've got that right Erad. I've definitely learned the benefits of a nice clean windscreen .
I don understand the threat of someone running into me and it is always something I consider.
After all your life is effectively in the hands of every other road user you share the road with. Making their job harder increases the risk to me and of course others. It's not something I did lightly.

Interesting info Greg. I guess there is always a way around everything.

Mobi Condo · Guru

LLD wrote:
Are these legal? Lots of lighting stuff that is readily available is illegal for on-road use. There is a plethora of rules on lights.

I would LOVE a set, but as my tug does not have automatic head light adjustment/dipping capabilities (not too sure what the actual technical term for this is) then they are actually illegal for me to fit them, even Super Cheap Auto folks admit to that point. Unfortunately many cars are running them and are not legal, and as said previously, that is a pain in the eye sockets if we have them blazing away at us!

Cheers

Brenda and Alan · Guru

I must agree with denmonkey regarding OEM headlights being useless. We drive a D22 Navara and have put up with the OME headlight which as country dwellers we have found to be totally useless, to the extent of having to drive in built up areas on high beam just to see where we are going and then only just. Rewiring with heavier cable as PeterD suggested resulted in deformed plastic lenses from the added heat from the STD QI globes. Since fitting a set of LED globes we now have back what we would expect from car headlights. So why was this vehicle allowed to be registered with such useless headlights and why should I give a sh*t when I do something to correct the problem. As with denmonkeys example our low beam cut off is unchanged but now we can see where we are driving without multitudes of street lights to illuminate our way. In our normal driving we contend with the likes of Kangaroos, wombats and more recently with deer ( As in sambar deer the size of a cow) If Australian registration allows vehicles to be registered which don't have lighting suitable for country driving and I have to modify it to make it so then I will do even if it is illegal just to see where I am driving at night. BUT why should I have . This is Australia. Why do we use European design rules for our lighting systems on vehicles when they are not relevant to our circumstances. We are not a multitude of cities connected by well lit freeways, but a big continent with few cities and vast distances in between. To all those who poo pooed Denmonkeys conversion saying it is illegal come and drive around our area for a few days and then post your comment on how good your STD low beam are.

Alan

-- Edited by Brenda and Alan on Thursday 13th of September 2018 11:43:07 PM

-- Edited by Brenda and Alan on Thursday 13th of September 2018 11:44:28 PM

denmonkey · Senior Member

Thanks for the input B&A .

I know when I'm on unlit roads the low beam is all but useless in that situation, especially when going from hi back to low.

On my search I also stumbled onto this

https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/.../4ed361b6-ad56-4edc-9016-391d52cc10c0

I hope that works. its a link to a pdf doc if anyone wants a read.

Some extracts though.

Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 13/00 Installation of Lighting and Light Signalling Devices on other than L-Group Vehicles) 2005 Amendment 2

1. Introduction

One of the latest innovations in road vehicle headlamps is the use of Light Emitting Diode (LED) arrays for light sources instead of conventional incandescent filament bulbs or high-energy gas discharge light sources. The performance of LED headlamps is comparable with headlamps equipped with these other light sources while providing improved reliability and the potential for better efficiency, leading to improved road safety and reduced motoring costs for consumers. The early introduction of these lamps is predicted to reduce CO2 emissions by nearly 1 g/km.
Currently, the Australian Design Rules (ADRs) for lighting equipment require headlamps that are either equipped with filament lamps or gas discharge lamps. This indicates a regulatory failing as technology development has outpaced regulation and manufacturers are prevented from utilising this new headlamp option.
Furthermore, even the current international regulations adopted by the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe (UNECE), with which the ADRs are aligned, do not accommodate LED headlamps. Amendments to the relevant UNECE lighting equipment regulations are at an advanced stage of development but are not expected to enter into force until about September 2008.

1.2. International Standards There is currently no UNECE standard for LED headlamps. The World Forum for the Harmonization of Vehicle Regulations (WP.29), the premiere body for vehicle standards development, is currently preparing amendments to the UNECE regulations to cater for LED headlamps as mentioned above. The EU has introduced an exemption to allow manufacturers to supply LED headlamp equipped vehicles in Europe.
2. Options Lighting equipment regulations are necessarily a mixture of performance and prescriptive requirements since it is generally accepted that lamps with replaceable light sources (as distinct from sealed beam lamps which need to be discarded upon failure and replaced as a complete unit) will undergo several bulb replacements during their serviceable life spans. Australias lighting regulations are harmonised with the international regulations adopted by the UNECE and are therefore in no way unique in this regard. However, the disadvantage of the existing performance/prescriptive regulations is that they require specific amendments to accommodate new technology.
A more desirable outcome would be the use of a non-prescriptive, performance based standard. Such a standard would specify quantitative requirements for light sources that are independent of the type of light source. Although ideal and in keeping with the principles behind Technical Barriers to Trade, such a standard is impractical as it would remove several key consumer protections related to filament lamps, including the requirement that filament lamp bulbs must be interchangeable.
Furthermore, light sources can differ in relation to the radiation emitted and this can necessitate particular testing for stability and durability where for example, significant ultraviolet radiation is involved.
The available options are therefore adopting an existing standard for LED lamps, developing a new standard or taking no action. Several non-regulatory options will also be given consideration but are unlikely to be acceptable due to the destabilising influence they could have on Australias vehicle certification system.

If you're so inclined, I'd also encourage you to read the responses from the various authorities that took part in this consulation process and their generally positive responses to making these changes and their considerations that relate to such a change.

Keep in mind that this was from 2005.

If they thought we were out of date with our regulations back then, how far are we behind now?