Mitsubishi Pajero

Gus1949 · Senior Member

Mitsubishi Pajero

drtooheys · Senior Member

Mate of mine towed his Golden Eagle with a Pajero without an issue.

yobarr · Guru

Gus1949 wrote:
Are there any issues with using a Pajero (not the Pajero Sport) as a tow vehicle? The spare wheel sticks out a far way and I'm wondering if there would be an issue with the rear door being opened with a van attached to the vehicle.

Hi Rowan...if you just go to the search listing at top of this page and type in Pajero Door,you will find lots of useful information from past enquiries. The rear door is a recognised problem with the Pajero,but you are likely to find ideas on how to minimise that problem.Cheers

P.S If you research the Spanish meaning of the word PAJERO you may well decide not to purchase that car?

-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 21st of July 2019 05:10:34 PM

Dougwe · Chief one feather

G'day Rowan,

Yobarr has made a good suggestion but quickly.

I have come across three happy campers with the Pajero and they changed their hitch to a 'Mc Hitch' to solve the problem you ask about. They were extremely happy with the way they went.

yobarr · Guru

Dougwe wrote:
G'day Rowan,

Yobarr has made a good suggestion but quickly.

I have come across three happy campers with the Pajero and they changed their hitch to a 'Mc Hitch' to solve the problem you ask about. They were extremely happy with the way they went.

Hi Doug...your suggestion certainly will help with the existing problem,but the OP needs to be made aware that the extra leverage created by the use of a McHitch massively increases the weight that the towball weight adds to the rear axle.In addition,a McHitch makes the whole setup a lot less stable because of the increase in TBO.(Distance from rear axle of car to hitch point).For a lightweight van,there probably is no cause for concern,but if the towball weight is up near 300kg,you are asking for trouble.Just saying....forewarned is forearmed.Cheers

Bill B · Guru

yobarr wrote:

but if the towball weight is up near 300kg,you are asking for trouble.

Certainly would be as maximum ball weight allowed is 250 kgs biggrin

yobarr · Guru

Bill B wrote:
yobarr wrote:

but if the towball weight is up near 300kg,you are asking for trouble.
Certainly would be as maximum ball weight allowed is 250 kgs

With a towing capacity of 3000kg,it would be unlikely to have max ball weight of 250kg.Tomorrow I will investigate.-

OK....I have done a bit of research (jogged my memory...I already knew all this stuff!) which seems to suggest that Mitsubishi does not really want this car to tow a PIG trailer with an ATM in excess of 2500kg? Up to 2500kg ATM the car can have a towball weight of 250kg,the generally accepted 10%,but once the ATM exceeds 2500kg,the ball weight is limited to 180kg.This means that if you choose to tow 3000kg ATM,you are running around with 6% towball weight! Unsafe,irresponsible and dangerous.You are thus limited to a van with an ATM of 2500kg max.Before anybody asks how such a vehicle can be advertised as being capable of towing 3000kg I would like to point out that this car CAN tow 3000kg,but ONLY as a DOG trailer,if safety is of any concern.The Dodge Ram 1500 is another example where it has ZERO chance of towing the advertised 4500kg as a PIG trailer.Towing any PIG trailer over 3000kg is only a dream for that car too.(It is NOT a truck).Cheers.

P.S The plot thickens.The Pajero a has a rear axle capacity of a miserable 1780kg.......and only 2780mm wheelbase. Surely they are joking?

-- Edited by yobarr on Monday 22nd of July 2019 07:16:44 AM

-- Edited by yobarr on Monday 22nd of July 2019 07:22:03 AM

-- Edited by yobarr on Monday 22nd of July 2019 07:31:31 AM

Bill B · Guru

yobarr wrote:

Bill B wrote:
yobarr wrote:

but if the towball weight is up near 300kg,you are asking for trouble.

Certainly would be as maximum ball weight allowed is 250 kgs
With a towing capacity of 3000kg,it would be unlikely to have max ball weight of 250kg.Tomorrow I will investigate.

Your investigations will reveal if towing between 2,501 kgs & 3,000 kgs a maximum ball weight of 180 kgs applies.

If towing up to 2,500 kgs max ball weight is 250 kgs

WAssa41 · Senior Member

There is a mod you can do to reduce the height of the tow coupling handle which will allow the door to open. Text me you phone no and I will text you a photo. 0414552060

Wassa

erad · Guru

If you walk through a caravan park, you will find many examples of Pajeros towing large vans. Talk to the owners, and rarely will you get any adverse replies. Later models (NT - 2010 onwards) had a 3000 kg tow rating, but as already stated, beyond 2500 kg, the towball load drops to 180 kg. Up to 2500 kg, the towball load is 250 kg. Engine power is great, especially the diesels. Fuel economy is excellent. I have a NW diesel (manual transmission) and regularly get around 8.3 L/100 km @ 100 km/h true speed (the speedo is woefully inaccurate - about 10% optimistic). Naturally, towing a caravan knocks this and it all depends on the size, weight and shape of the van, and the speed and conditions where you drive. I have a 16.5 ft Jayco poptop van and at 92 km/h, on flat ground with no winds, I get 11.7 L/100 km. Hilly country or pushing it to 110 km/h will push it to around 15L/100, but that us the worst I have ever recorded. The petrol engines deliver more power, but they are thirsty.

The towball length issue is a non-event. The standard coupling handle fouls the spare tyre when trying to open the rear door. A simple fix is to raise the spare wheel (bracket about $85 on ebay), or do as I did, cut the top off the D handle on my caravan, and cut and reset the van brake handle to a lower position. McHitch is a better but more expensive solution.

Pajeros are monocoque construction (no chassis). This gives the traditional bashers a supposed advantage that the body will distort when under load. Mitsubishi people and others have done lots of testing, deliberatley bogging and retrieving Pajeros with snatch straps and no body distortion was noted. However, having no chassis (and thus no body isolation rubbers), at times road noise can be more intrusive than the equivalent sized vehicles. I have no issues with road noise at all.

Although I have a manual transmission, I recommend the auto. Probably 95% of later model Pajeros sold were autos. The transmissions are apparently solid and reliable. Certainly to auto drives much better than the manual (I hate autos). Comparing prices with comparable brands eg the Toyota Prado, the Pajero is generally a lot cheaper, yet reviewers suggest that the Pajero does most things better. The one big advantage for Prado (earlier models) is the fuel tank capacity (190 L) compared to 88 L for the Pajero. However, I regularly get over 1000 km from a tank (not towing), so that is not an issue for me.

Later model Pajeros have all the fruit, and you can still buy new Pajeros (but probably for not much longer because of emissions compliance problems) at good prices compared to the opposition. Earlier models (NM, NP diesels had potential expensive fuel pump problems ($5000+). The NS onwards models are common rail diesels and apparently don't have this issue. The NS model had problems with DPF (diesel particulate filter). For short trips, where the exhaust didn't warm up properly, regenerative burns could not take place properly. A good blast on the highway cleared most of those problems. Models NT, NW and NX up to 2016 didn't have DPF. The later models have DPF, but apparently don't have the same issues as the NS model. DPF issues are not unique to Pajeros - all later model diesels have DPF and a lot of them are having issues with them.

littledick · Senior Member

Cheaper to cut the D handle off and make a folding one!!

And correct, van over 2.5t and ball load 180kgs.

Dick.

-- Edited by littledick on Monday 22nd of July 2019 09:24:49 AM

boab · Senior Member

whats wrong with less than 10% tow ball weight most of europe is recomended at 5 to 6%. In Europe it's an entirely different story: the typical EEC car and 4WD towball load is between 50kg and 75kg, and even heavy trailers above 3500kg have towball loads around 100kg. Are we smarter than them ????? and isn't the 10% just a recommended weight or perhaps the recommended maximum weight.

Mr Fuse · Veteran Member

When we were considering a new tow vehicle we paid attention to what others were using. Surprisingly this seems to depend somewhat on where you travel bit in Central Australia in particular the most common we saw were late model Pajeros. That would suggest to me that they are generally considered a decent tug. Indeed, if they were within our budget we would have bought one too, as we do enjoy the Pajeros.

yobarr · Guru

boab wrote:
whats wrong with less than 10% tow ball weight most of europe is recomended at 5 to 6%. In Europe it's an entirely different story: the typical EEC car and 4WD towball load is between 50kg and 75kg, and even heavy trailers above 3500kg have towball loads around 100kg. Are we smarter than them ????? and isn't the 10% just a recommended weight or perhaps the recommended maximum weight.

Without wanting to get into any prolonged debate about it,10% is the GENERALLY ACCEPTED towball weight among those who have any understanding of weights.We are in Australia,and we do not have the super-light vans that other countries may have. Provided the weight on the wheels of the car is greater than the weight on the wheels of the van,it MAY be acceptable to have a towball weight marginally lower than 10%,but it is not wise.Given your stance on this issue,i STRONGLY recommend that you access publications by Collyn Rivers,a recognised expert on weights and dynamics,with over 60 years experience in that field, including many years with General Motors testing both cars and trucks.If you Google his name you will have lots of books to choose from.This will undoubtedly help you to understand the physics involved?Anybody who tows a 3500kg PIG trailer with only 100kg towball weight is a few cents short of a dollar. Cheers

P.S I have absolutely no connection with Collyn Rivers,other than reading his books.

yobarr · Guru

Mr Fuse wrote:
When we were considering a new tow vehicle we paid attention to what others were using. Surprisingly this seems to depend somewhat on where you travel bit in Central Australia in particular the most common we saw were late model Pajeros. That would suggest to me that they are generally considered a decent tug. Indeed, if they were within our budget we would have bought one too, as we do enjoy the Pajeros.

Hi John....given their popularity,there probably is no doubt that the Pajero is a Decent Tug (To use your words) but there is NO WAY KNOWN you should consider towing a 3000kg PIG trailer with only 180kg (6%) towball weight...NONE. Cheers

Greg 1 · Guru

From someone who had a Pajero and now has a Ranger. I loved my Pajero. Great vehicle. But when we upgraded our van to one that is just under 3000kg, the rear end on the Paj just couldn't deal with it and I went through a set of tyres on the rear in 8000ks. The van manufacturer claimed weights that were within the Pajero's limits which have since turned out to be very rubbery. As stated, I believe the Paj to be an excellent tow vehicle up to a trailer ATM of 2500kg. Over that I would really consider something else. I changed to a Ranger which handles my van easily, but don't believe the claims of that being able to realistically tow 3500kg either. There is a special bracket you can buy to raise the Paj's spare wheel a bit and I used and still use a McHitch Auto Hitch which quite frankly is the best damned hitch I have ever used. Don't believe all the unstable rubbish. I would not use any other hitch on a heavy van again. Absolutely brilliant and have met other users on my travels who think exactly the same.

yobarr · Guru

Greg 1 wrote:
From someone who had a Pajero and now has a Ranger. I loved my Pajero. Great vehicle. But when we upgraded our van to one that is just under 3000kg, the rear end on the Paj just couldn't deal with it and I went through a set of tyres on the rear in 8000ks. The van manufacturer claimed weights that were within the Pajero's limits which have since turned out to be very rubbery. As stated, I believe the Paj to be an excellent tow vehicle up to a trailer ATM of 2500kg. Over that I would really consider something else. I changed to a Ranger which handles my van easily, but don't believe the claims of that being able to realistically tow 3500kg either. There is a special bracket you can buy to raise the Paj's spare wheel a bit and I used and still use a McHitch Auto Hitch which quite frankly is the best damned hitch I have ever used. Don't believe all the unstable rubbish. I would not use any other hitch on a heavy van again. Absolutely brilliant and have met other users on my travels who think exactly the same.

Hi Greg....great to see that you became aware of the limitations of the Pajero and upgraded your car.However,I am a little confused about your comment concerning your McHitch.You say.......Dont Believe all the unstable rubbish.....which in itself is a rubbish comment.There is absolutely no rubbish involved here,just simple physics.The further behind the rear axle you have your hitch point (towball or whatever you use) the greater the weight transferred to the rear axle of the car.The further behind the rear axle you have your hitchpoint,the more unstable the vehicle becomes.Think levers,and then try to tell me that a car with a 2 metre TBO (Towball overhang,or distance from rear axle to hitchpoint) is no less stable than a car with a 1 metre TBO. Simple physics shows otherwise. A WDH and a McHitch BOTH increase TBO with the associated problems.DO35 for me.Cheers

P.S Great to see that you understand that a Ranger can never SAFELY tow a 3500kg PIG trailer,and that 3000kg is topweight.

Mr Fuse · Veteran Member

yobarr wrote:
Hi John....given their popularity,there probably is no doubt that the Pajero is a Decent Tug (To use your words) but there is NO WAY KNOWN you should consider towing a 3000kg PIG trailer with only 180kg (6%) towball weight...NONE. Cheers

Fair enough. I didn't actually realise that the ball weight limit for recent models is that low. I'm used to earlier models, where the ball weight rating is 250kg but can, with suitable suspension work, be lifted to 300kg (depending on the state). I obviously have no idea of the weights of those many caravans I saw being towed. I'm not even a caravan person.

yobarr · Guru

eMr Fuse wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Hi John....given their popularity,there probably is no doubt that the Pajero is a Decent Tug (To use your words) but there is NO WAY KNOWN you should consider towing a 3000kg PIG trailer with only 180kg (6%) towball weight...NONE. Cheers
Fair enough. I didn't actually realise that the ball weight limit for recent models is that low. I'm used to earlier models, where the ball weight rating is 250kg but can, with suitable suspension work, be lifted to 300kg (depending on the state). I obviously have no idea of the weights of those many caravans I saw being towed. I'm not even a caravan person.

Hi John...judging by the number of Pajeros that we see towing large vans,I suspect that you are not alone in not knowing the towball limitations of this car! Still,ignorance is bliss,until your friendly insurance assessor starts investigating after an accident! And when a claim is declined it then will be the fault of anybody except the cars owner.Ignorance is bliss.Cest la vie! Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Monday 22nd of July 2019 06:38:05 PM

Sarco Harris · Senior Member

Ask the same question at:

www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/

Probably one of the best sources for information about Pajeros on the web

Also I am probably biased as I own a Pajero as a tow vehicle, but only a hybrid camper trailer (Vista Crossover XL) and am also a member of the Club.

Sarco

Greg 1 · Guru

Yobarr, I fail to see how you belive that tbe McHitch puts the load point any furthet back than a standard towball. The McHitch recievet sits squarely over the centre point of the original towball, in fact uses that as it's mount point. It can use the manufacturers supplied tongue that comes with the towbar. The load is not shifted rearward at all. If you use a different tongue that extends further behind the vehicle then that is a different matter, but the McHitch certainly does not require that. There is no difference to your preferred hitch th DO35 which is also a good solution.

boab · Senior Member

Caravan Weight Myths Myth 1: It is fine to have end weight (like toolboxes and spare wheels) as long as the front end is heavier than the back.

Reality: This is commonly believed. It is a very dangerous myth as it results in oil tanker-like handling. Some are normally ultra-stable but if a sufficient side force does cause one to yaw (snake), that end mass that kept it seemingly stable may now not be correctable. If that occurs, jack-knifing is virtually inevitable.

Myth 2: For optimum stability, all caravans need about 10% tow ball mass.

Reality: Desirable tow ball mass is more an issue of where mass is along that caravan. That 10% is easily remembered and generally adequate. A short centre-heavy caravan, however, needs far less than does a long end-heavy caravan. Camper trailers prove this. Most are a mere four metres, yet some weigh close to two tonnes. Almost all are ultra-stable; however, their recommended tow ball mass varies from 3% to an extraordinary 20%. This is lifted off another site where plenty of testing has been done and Yobarr jusy so you know my van has more than 10% on the tow ball and it would appreciate it if you didnt speak to me as if i am some sort of a moron i have been around a fair while and unlike you i dont assume to know everything

Tony Bev · Guru

Good friend of mine, (in my home town) has a Mitsubishi Pajero, which has the door sticking out

He only tows a, about 1,600 Kg caravan, so no problems with the weight

He has taken his Mitsubishi Pajero and old caravan, along the Great Central Road, so no problems with his suspension etc

He normally does not open his rear door, with the caravan attached

I assume that if anyone wanted to open the rear door, and it was fouling on the tow hitch/handbrake, they could unhook and drive a metre forward, then re-hitch the caravan

yobarr · Guru

Greg 1 wrote:
Yobarr, I fail to see how you belive that tbe McHitch puts the load point any furthet back than a standard towball. The McHitch recievet sits squarely over the centre point of the original towball, in fact uses that as it's mount point. It can use the manufacturers supplied tongue that comes with the towbar. The load is not shifted rearward at all. If you use a different tongue that extends further behind the vehicle then that is a different matter, but the McHitch certainly does not require that. There is no difference to your preferred hitch th DO35 which is also a good solution.

Hi Greg....Your view seems to be shared by other McHitch users,but they,like you,are wrong.The load applied to a car by the towball is transferred through the pivot point.(Think levers) The pivot point for a standard towball is the towball itself,which bolts directly onto the tongue.The pivot point for a DO35 is the actual pin,which fits directly onto the tongue.The pivot point for a McHitch is the middle of the universal fitting,which is at least 150mm....maybe 200mm?.....behind the point where the McHitch is attached to the tongue.THATS where you get the extra weight transferred to the rear axle of the car,and THATS where increased instability becomes an issue.More TBO means more weight applied to car rear axle and more weight removed from the front axle.More TBO means more sway.The laws of leverage.Simple physics.I sincerely hope this gives you a better understanding? Cheers.

yobarr · Guru

o

boab wrote:
Caravan Weight Myths Myth 1: It is fine to have end weight (like toolboxes and spare wheels) as long as the front end is heavier than the back.

Reality: This is commonly believed. It is a very dangerous myth as it results in oil tanker-like handling. Some are normally ultra-stable but if a sufficient side force does cause one to yaw (snake), that end mass that kept it seemingly stable may now not be correctable. If that occurs, jack-knifing is virtually inevitable.

Myth 2: For optimum stability, all caravans need about 10% tow ball mass.

Reality: Desirable tow ball mass is more an issue of where mass is along that caravan. That 10% is easily remembered and generally adequate. A short centre-heavy caravan, however, needs far less than does a long end-heavy caravan. Camper trailers prove this. Most are a mere four metres, yet some weigh close to two tonnes. Almost all are ultra-stable; however, their recommended tow ball mass varies from 3% to an extraordinary 20%. This is lifted off another site where plenty of testing has been done and Yobarr jusy so you know my van has more than 10% on the tow ball and it would appreciate it if you didnt speak to me as if i am some sort of a moron i have been around a fair while and unlike you i dont assume to know everything

Gary...I quickly deduced that you have a better understanding of weights than do many others,with your post above further strengthening that view.My concern with your mention of stupidly low towball weights,such as 100kg on a 3500kg van,is that this only gives false hope to those people who,deep down,know that their van is too big for the car they have,but visit this site seeking some sort of reassurance.Mention of such things as 100kg TBM with a 3500kg van only gives encouragement to these people,who then are likely to hit the highways with these unsafe setups,endangering themselves and other road users.Cheers.

denmonkey · Senior Member

Hey Gus,

As an owner of a 2010 NT Pajero towing a ~1500kg van, I can speak to the spare wheel issue and how I resolved it.
I'll leave ball weight etc alone for others to argue about.

I swapped out my hitch on the van for an Alko 360 off road hitch. You can see pics and a video in the thread here when I made the change

https://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t64917619/clearnce-issues-towing-with-the-pajero-alko-360/

This allows me to get the rear door open whilst still hooked up, at least swung open as far as the gas bottle . Better than a few inches and trying to stick a hand in.

In the old thread you will see I had the adjustable hitch in the pajero. Originally that was what I tried to be able to drop the ball down enough to give clearance under the wheel. That worked but not as well as I like, plus it the position it needed to be , left the rest of it handing down and caught on my sloped driveway on the way out and it.

Getting the alko meant I could adjust the towball back up a bit but since the mounting for the tow ball is veritical, the alko need the latch to come down in front of the ball , so this meant getting fingers in there was a hassle .

I just removed the adjustable ball hitch and went with one which has a slope on it

straight

sloped

this gives me more room to get my fingers in and work the latch to hitch up and unhitch.

As mentioned above, there is a plate that you can get to lift the spare wheel 50mm. I don't have that.

Also re the mchitch length, I can't say but I know the standard tow ball on a pajero is a lot longer than a standard one. this is to bring it out under the spare wheel .

How that compares to the mchitch and the concerns debated above I don't know.

Oh and I have a 2 inch lift with heavy duty suspension front and back

Am I happy with it. Damn straight I am.

cheers Brett

moamajohn · Guru

I have had a pajero since 2012 21ft Supreme and I also purchased the first Mchitch in Victoria .I have read all the above crap from folks that dont own any of this set up my hitch is fantastic and has been for7 years .Amazing how folks love to theorise about gear they have never used !Cheers

moamajohn · Guru

I have had a pajero since 2012 21ft Supreme and I also purchased the first Mchitch in Victoria .I have read all the above crap from folks that dont own any of this set up my hitch is fantastic and has been for7 years .Amazing how folks love to theorise about gear they have never used !Cheers

yobarr · Guru

moamajohn wrote:
I have had a pajero since 2012 21ft Supreme and I also purchased the first Mchitch in Victoria .I have read all the above crap from folks that dont own any of this set up my hitch is fantastic and has been for7 years .Amazing how folks love to theorise about gear they have never used !Cheers

Hi John...thankyou for this well thought out post,but I am interested to know exactly which posts above are crap? There is no theory involved with weights...all is fact.If you care to supply the ATM of your van,some calculations can be done for you.If your Pajero is a model with maximum towball weight of 180kg,you should not be towing a van with an ATM over about 1800-2000kg.A quick...very quick...search shows vans such as yours have ATM of around 2800kg to 2900kg.Over 2500kg ATM your ball weight is limited to 180kg.......at 2550kg you would have 7% towball weight,and it just gets worse as the ATM increases so at 3000kg ATM you are on a ridiculous 6%....absolutely stupid.And remember that you have only 2780mm wheelbase and a miserable 1780kg rear axle capacity.Please take the time to study previous posts,perhaps mine from 23/7 at 7.36am.You will discover that these are facts....not crap.The Pajero cannot SAFELY tow more than 2500 ATM as a PIG trailer.Sad inconvenient truth.Cheers

moamajohn · Guru

Hey Chris If you scroll back it appears that you are clearly monopolising this topic and frankly moving away from the topic also by your overly detailed paragraphs because you won,t let go ! We other folk just enjoy our vans for good or bad as we see fit .I for one don,t give a rats how others perceive my towing capabilities to be since I have covered many kays with my current set up . Life is too short to get into problems that folk need to do without others giving conflicting views that frankly bewilder them .Any how you clearly are most knowledgeable about your field ,however folk need to make their own decisions .Cheers mate . john

-- Edited by moamajohn on Thursday 1st of August 2019 08:11:00 PM