Max tare for sub 4500 kg thresh hold.

Ellynsteve · Member

Max tare for sub 4500 kg thresh hold.

yobarr · Guru

Ellynsteve wrote:
Hi, my last conversion was a Coaster, after fitting it out it weighed 3870kg and was passed for a car licence and so downrated from light rigid. I now want to do the same with a heavier bus, the Mitsubishi Rosa, but don't know just how close I can get to the 4500 before it will be disallowed. Just the batteries and water will take her up a few hundred kilos.... I didn't think to ask when I did the Coaster just how low the figure needed to be... in that case I had about 600 kg to play with. So is there a rule of thumb they work with? do they add the water and fuel and then say....add 300kg for luggage or is there some other method.... we are in Queensland. Any thoughts on this would be great.

A person with a car licence can drive a vehicle with a GVM up to 4500kg.If you have only a car licence,as soon as your vehicle weighs more than that you are illegal and uninsured.Provided you keep your loaded vehicle below 4500kg,all is good........but be aware that there are likely to be axle load limitations too!That will not affect your right to drive the vehicle,but you may be overloaded on an axle? Asking what your tare could be is like asking how long is a piece of string....as long as your laden vehicle is below 4500kg,your tare can be anything.Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Monday 12th of August 2019 07:09:48 PM

Ellynsteve · Member

thanks Yobarr, I may not have explained myself, I have a truck licence, but I want to drop my Rosa from light rigid to car licence. I know it needs to be less that 4500, but what I don't know is how much lower to get it passed. As mentioned my Coaster was 3870 tare converted and was passed, however presumably if it was 4400kg tare, it would not have as the water alone would have put it over 4490kg.

montie · Guru

Ellynsteve wrote:
Hi, my last conversion was a Coaster, after fitting it out it weighed 3870kg and was passed for a car licence and so downrated from light rigid. I now want to do the same with a heavier bus, the Mitsubishi Rosa, but don't know just how close I can get to the 4500 before it will be disallowed. Just the batteries and water will take her up a few hundred kilos.... I didn't think to ask when I did the Coaster just how low the figure needed to be... in that case I had about 600 kg to play with. So is there a rule of thumb they work with? do they add the water and fuel and then say....add 300kg for luggage or is there some other method.... we are in Queensland. Any thoughts on this would be great.

Your licence rating is based on plated GVM and not tare weight.

If your Mitsubishi has a plated GVM in excess of 4500kg you will need an LR licence unless you can have it downgraded.

Downgrading to 4495kg might at best leave you no payload capacity or at worst a tare weight that exceeds the new GVM.

What is the plated GVM of the Rosa?

yobarr · Guru

Ellynsteve wrote:
thanks Yobarr, I may not have explained myself, I have a truck licence, but I want to drop my Rosa from light rigid to car licence. I know it needs to be less that 4500, but what I don't know is how much lower to get it passed. As mentioned my Coaster was 3870 tare converted and was passed, however presumably if it was 4400kg tare, it would not have as the water alone would have put it over 4490kg.

Hi Steve....just to elaborate,your tare can be anything,as long as your loaded vehicle weighs no more than 4500kg. As far as I am aware,there is no law that specifies a maximum tare,but you no doubt are aware that tare includes only 10 litres fuel.Cheers

montie · Guru

Mitsubishi Rosa tare around 4.2 tonne for 22 seat bus.
GVM around 5.9 tonne.
Not much leeway there!

Ellynsteve · Member

yes montie, factory tare is 4.2, however I removed 16 seats at 25kg each, the faulty A/C and the raised floors, heaters etc.... so I believe the bus now weighs about 3.6 tonne empty. My concern is that if I then do the conversion and it weighs ..lets say.... 4.3 tonne the certifier wont pass it as a car licence as it will be too close to the 4.5 tonne cutoff. He/she might argue that the luggage, full fuel, two people, 100 litres of water etc will push it over the limit. I obviously can leave it as light rigid, however I have reasons for downgrading it. I see my choices as being to weigh it empty and then get it re registered as a 6 seater vehicle then put in some motorhome goodies, or do the conversion and hope to get under the 4.5 tonne, if I fail then will just have to swallow the light rigid rating.

Ellynsteve · Member

thanks mate

Jaahn · Guru

Ellynsteve wrote:
yes montie, factory tare is 4.2, however I removed 16 seats at 25kg each, the faulty A/C and the raised floors, heaters etc.... so I believe the bus now weighs about 3.6 tonne empty. My concern is that if I then do the conversion and it weighs ..lets say.... 4.3 tonne the certifier wont pass it as a car licence as it will be too close to the 4.5 tonne cutoff. He/she might argue that the luggage, full fuel, two people, 100 litres of water etc will push it over the limit. I obviously can leave it as light rigid, however I have reasons for downgrading it. I see my choices as being to weigh it empty and then get it re registered as a 6 seater vehicle then put in some motorhome goodies, or do the conversion and hope to get under the 4.5 tonne, if I fail then will just have to swallow the light rigid rating.

Hi Steve smile

Well we do not know how they do things in the Queens land but I will say what I did in New S wales for my Sprinter bus. I looked for an engineer in the list on the RTA site. Then I selected the cheapest close one and rang him for a chat. He told me what he could do and what I had to do also. I decided to go for a 'panel van with windows' rather than a MH. This just means I can put whatever I like in the back, in a safe manner, and do whatever I like !! So I have six seats and camping in the rest. Actually I normally remove two.There are rules that they have to go by for motor homes e.g. same number of seats as beds and ??

I am not weight challenged but the engineer would have told me whatever I wanted to know if he thought it was a problem. Seems a better idea to ask him than the 'experts' on here. aww

Jaahn

-- Edited by Jaahn on Tuesday 13th of August 2019 10:06:45 AM

montie · Guru

Ellynsteve wrote:
yes montie, factory tare is 4.2, however I removed 16 seats at 25kg each, the faulty A/C and the raised floors, heaters etc.... so I believe the bus now weighs about 3.6 tonne empty. My concern is that if I then do the conversion and it weighs ..lets say.... 4.3 tonne the certifier wont pass it as a car licence as it will be too close to the 4.5 tonne cutoff. He/she might argue that the luggage, full fuel, two people, 100 litres of water etc will push it over the limit. I obviously can leave it as light rigid, however I have reasons for downgrading it. I see my choices as being to weigh it empty and then get it re registered as a 6 seater vehicle then put in some motorhome goodies, or do the conversion and hope to get under the 4.5 tonne, if I fail then will just have to swallow the light rigid rating.

Steve,
If the fully completed converted bus tares at 4.3 tonnes I doubt the engineer will care so long as it is under 4500kg. You just have to remember that will only give you 200kg of payload which isn't a lot. I think your concern will not necessarily be the engineer, rather being overweight and illegal.
If your reason for downgrading your licence class is because you may need another driver in emergency situation, there are ways around that problem.

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

In SA it is much cheaper to register a motorhome than a bus and with any vehicle you can not legally remove seats without a new engineering approval.

As Montie says, you have little chance of keeping a Rossa below 4.5T when on the road touring.

And strange as it may seem, it is easier to have engineering changes approved to a vehicle over 4.5T than one under 4.5T.

Cheers,

Peter

Ellynsteve · Member

Hi Jaan,, we have two businesses in town that do the certification, however I'm trying to gather info before I head their way.

Ellynsteve · Member

thanks Peter n Margaret, I guess I'll keep going with the repairs, when its done and empty get it weighed, from there I can make a decision. I have seen a Rosa previously registered for car licence so it can be done... or at least has been done by someone somewhere. If it weighs 3.5 empty I may have a shot as I don't think the conversion I have in mind will weigh more than 500kg. I wont be able to match the Coaster at 3870 kg though.

Ellynsteve · Member

I've only just removed the raised floors, so a bit to go yet, when I have it at what I think is its new tare I'll get it weighed and report back.. regards and thanks Steve