There was another electric vehicle company building electric buses in Victoria, they were just about to put the service buses on the road and govt decided there were more votes to had supporting a new venture than supporting the new venture they supported before. So their funding shifted to these people.
The battery packs sold off very quickly but they couldn't sell the electric buses. Now they have stripped them out and are selling the 4 speed computer shift gearbox with computer, the electric motors with computer and VFD and the whole lot combined. I am in negotiations at the moment to buy the motor/gearbox and all the associated electronics to do a conversion in my big bus project. Things seem to have stalled at the moment so I'm wondering if this mob has bought up what they had in a single allotment and this is why I haven't heard any more from them. Not a game changer for me, I already have a motor and controller for the bus project, but one all set up ready to do would have made life very easy.

There are also start ups in Adelaide and Brisbane, I think they are aiming at the light delivery van market for couriers etc. Of course there is also the Tesla owned mob that are building prime movers with gas turbines and small battery packs that appear to be lighter than the equivalent prime mover producing the same torque at the drive wheels. It is all about the torque to the road, not what the engine can develop, the voltage is to limiting factor as far as speed.

Something I have toyed with for many yrs, electric drive to every wheel rather than the 4 wheels on the prime mover doing all the work.
50kW at the wheel on the 4 prime mover wheels and another 25kW on each steer wheel, 250kW on the ground for the prime mover. That is plenty for around town deliveries and shuffling trailers when either at the depot or at the trailer exchange.
Add a dolly for a road train and 50kW per wheel, 300kW plus the 250kW the prime mover has, 550kW available from the moment the wheels start to turn, nothing on the road in the trucking game at the moment can match that. Thing about it, instant torque to pull out and over take so no more of that thing where they need to wind up to pass an RV. No more crawling off the mark and shifting a dozen gears when trying to take off on a hill. No more run up required to get a road train over a dirt road climb because a lot more wheels are driving and spreading that 550kW at 50kW per wheel, no wheel spin problems. Braking is the same, no more wheel lock ups, all the drive wheels become regen devices up to 50kW per wheel, but only as long as they are still turning, so no compression lock up and the regen can absorb a lot more speed energy than the brake lining can turn into heat for a lot longer, pull up straight, no tyre damage and would stop in a lot shorter distance than locked wheels can. Add another dolly, now there is 3 full size trailers and 850kW available. It would probably spell the end of the B double and B triple and the quad we sometimes see out there, the company gets to use any semi trailer because they all will couple up to a dolly.
Now add a remote control to drive the dolly at say 5km/h. Simply drop the dolly in the yard or at the customers drop off zone, the load controller can now drive the trailer into the dock for unloading and out to another dock for reloading, then back out to the pick up area. The next truck through sinply picks up the dolly and plugs in and away they go. Loose a plug coupling, the dolly goes into 25% regen and the prime mover now has to drag it off the road to check what has happened. No jack knife because the trailer/s are in regen so effectively braking.

Sure lends it self to autonomous drive prime movers eh No more memorials on the side of the road for a trucker who sacrificed themselves for their pay packet. They would still be needed to drive the dollies around the trailer exchange, do the paperwork or button pressing as to which hauling company was dragging which dolly so just who gets paid for that part of the haul. They still need drivers that understand logistics to organise loads in each trailer and who to contact to collect that trailer, but they still get to go home each night to their family.

T1 Terry

 

-- Edited by T1 Terry on Thursday 26th of September 2019 12:16:10 PM

If you look here http://forums.aeva.asn.au/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=5721 you can see the progress of someone who is already converting their gas guzzler to full electric so they can go on the road full time fuel cost free.

 

T1 Terry 

Victoria is about to legislate for the 50% renewable by 2030.This has passed Lower House , both parties somehow. Absolutely no plan for any back up power, let alone how to recharge any batteries at the end of the day. A great Blackout Plan by Mad Dan.

I just love the total B/S spun by climate denialists and those who can not accept change. I'm guessing the same mentality was behind the luddite movement that tried to stop the industrial revolution.
A few mths back we had one of the chief electrical engineers for SA power give a talk at the SA branch meeting regarding the integration of electric vehicles into the energy grid. Now keep in mind South Australia is totally renewable powered and sells power to the other states. They have already introduced an off peak rate during the day designed mostly for electric vehicle stations and battery backed house system to take advantage of so they can sell the abundant power available from roof top solar that at the moment they have difficulty utilising. There is a reason household systems must be registered with the energy supply authority and limited to 5kW inverters, until there is some where for that energy to go then they have to limit what can come in. They do that by actually controlling the inverter on each house so they can throttle back the amount being pushed into the grid. If SA has more power than it can use, sells it to the states that don't have the power generation they require, yet still can't fully utilise all the generation capabilities ir has now before the next lot of big batteries join the grid, why can't the eastern states get it together? Not far to travel to SA to see how a grid generation system should be set up eh?
The only reason the east coast states are struggling is because the voters there are brain washed into believing the big battery doesn't work. If you don't believe me, do you remember this being on the news at all in the east coast states? reneweconomy.com.au/how-the-tesla-big-battery-kept-the-lights-on-in-south-australia-20393/ They aren't likely to put that out there for the voters to read while trying to sell the need for a new coal fired power station and explain away why they pay big $$ to the other coal fired power station in the form of cheap subsidised coal to keep them from shutting up shop ...... Time the east coast voters realised they are being lied to by those that have a vested interest in coal fired power stations.
When do you think we will see street protests demanding a big battery plan for each state to keep the lights on?

In a way I'm sorry I left NSW as far as potential business opportunities, off grid or battery back up systems that keep more than just a few lights on in the house, but rather make the whole house UPS capable. That is what we do for RV's and houses on the grid fringe now even here in SA, can you imagine the work we'd have if we were still in NSW? The advantage of living in a state that once had a forward thinking state govt far out weighs the losses, I'm confident the voters here aren't blind to the realities of life and this state will again go into the future with pollies interested in the improvement of the state rather than their bottom line.

T1 Terry

Mariner30 wrote:

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Not car, 4WD or truck related, But there is a interesting read in the current issue of the Wooden Boat magazine about a electric motor powered wooden runabout built here in Tas, Dunno if there is a online platform for it but the boat's name is " Zelectra"

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Germany built a solar-battery powered small catamaran to sail around the world, very impressive, big cost.

It sailed part of the way but encountered problems of not being powerful enough to sail into the wind or cope with very rough conditions, and suffered range problems.

A pilot only around the world solar-battery powered aircraft was not successful and failed to complete the mission.

New technology is great, but not for sale before a practical solution for all end users. And on small scale applications, mine vehicles for example, or factory where the company I managed had some electric forklift trucks twenty years ago, ok.

 

Knight wrote:

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Mariner30 wrote:

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Not car, 4WD or truck related, But there is a interesting read in the current issue of the Wooden Boat magazine about a electric motor powered wooden runabout built here in Tas, Dunno if there is a online platform for it but the boat's name is " Zelectra"

---

Germany built a solar-battery powered small catamaran to sail around the world, very impressive, big cost.

It sailed part of the way but encountered problems of not being powerful enough to sail into the wind or cope with very rough conditions, and suffered range problems.

A pilot only around the world solar-battery powered aircraft was not successful and failed to complete the mission.

New technology is great, but not for sale before a practical solution for all end users. And on small scale applications, mine vehicles for example, or factory where the company I managed had some electric forklift trucks twenty years ago, ok.

 

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The first solar power yacht sailed around the world yrs ago, 2012 actually, https://www.google.com.au/search?ei=CquOXezCK8Xhz7sP8_iciA4&q=solar+powered+yacht+first+around+the+world&oq=Solar+power+yacht+first+around&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.33i22i29i30.5417.38847..41856...0.2..0.307.7509.0j3j28j1......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..0i356j0i71j0i273j0i67j0j0i131j0i131i67j0i131i273j0i10j0i10i30j0i8i30j0i22i10i30j0i22i30j0i13j0i13i30j33i160j33i10.iqVJ_MwgwLA#spf=1569633072859

What is it with this "fake anti renewable news" that keeps springing up? Someone is sponsoring it and it seems no one questions it. I'm in the process or wiring up a full electric (including 2 electric outboard motors) at the Mannum marina now, so hardly cutting edge stuff.

The mimes use electric vehicle now, are you saying they don't know what they are doing? Either stay up with the real facts or stop spinning nonsense for what ever reason you are doing it, you aren't improving your credibility in the slightest.

 

T1 Terry

Funny way to look at it, you can swap out a charged battery and restart mowing a lot faster than you can refill one with fuel. Doesn't matter that much how long it takes to recharge the spare battery as long as you have enough batteries to finish the lawn. My Ego hedge trimmer battery outlasts my ability to continuously cut the hedge and the battery is recharged far quicker than I am :lol: I'd love to get a battery mower, but the electric one hasn't died yet so a hard sell on the financial adviser the need for a battery mower. The battery chain saw is a marvel, starts every time, again, the battery out lasts me as far as stamina and recovers its energy a lot faster than I do.
My plug in battery car recharges from my motorhome solar/batteries/inverter so doesn't put any strain on the grid, or the roads having fuel delivered to the service station. The people in the servo don't think it's that great, but you can't please everyone.
As far as your call regarding the SA big battery and the diesel generator, did you read the links, the generator was used to support the Victorian grid, not the South Australian grid, renewables are working fine over here and have been for quite a while. What the east coast grid needs is to follow South Australia's lead and put in a number of big batteries to hold the grid up and smooth it out. The battery doesn't power the grid, it was never intended to power the grid, it is there to support the grid.
The east coast grid had a generator just to maintain the frequency for a long time, is that still the case? A battery and inverters is a lot better method and would free up that generators output capacity if needed, wouldn't that be a lot smarter thinking?
If South Australia can run 100% renewables and actually sell excess generation to its poorly organised neighbour states , no gas fired power stations or coal fired power stations here, why do the eastern states claim it can't be done? Drop the inter connectors between SA and the other states and see who's lights go out .......We don't mind being the east coasts back up power supply, but don't try to tell us that renewables don't work while you are using renewable power to keep you lights on and the air con running, that is just silly talk.

T1 Terry

So explain why the AEMO "capacity factor" for renewables other than hydro is +- 30% of design or nameplate capacity, sometimes called installed capacity.

When the wind doesn't blow, when the sun doesn't shine .... clouds, high temperature daytime also.

You are moving way off track from electricity generation on a grand scale, producing baseload electricity and capacity for peak demand periods.

A caravan closed system with solar and batteries works quite well, the larger the scale of operations, as in a major grid, then the unreliable, intermittent supply wind and solar are inefficient and not cost effective, needing back up generators/storage.

When you have an electric-solar boat that can be used commercially get back to us. In between time have fun playing with developing technology.

I agree, electric vehicles will stabilise the grid. All vehicles plugged in will network & if you need your car charged quickly you pay a premium. If it is not urgent it will be charged slower or when there is an excess. If the grid is short on power the vehicles can shove a bit back in & you get a credit. Easy!

People are simply getting on & doing it as we have done on a smaller scale in our carvans & cars powering fridges etc, just a bigger scale, while politicians still have lacquered lumps of coal it their hands!

To begin with, please consider the essential electricity grid baseload demand and where the consumers are, domestic being a minor consumer.

Already after a decade of RET and subsidies at the best of times, and best is not often achieved, wind and solar is not reliable, the grid intake of energy from unreliable sources is around 10% of baseload.

Add peak demand periods.

What are people going to drive while their expensive EV is plugged in to stabilise the grid (as if they could)? The SA battery is a momentary stabiliser just providing enough time for the backup system diesel and gas generators to start up. No such stabilising was needed when SA had enough power station based reliable generators. And now there is discussion about a multi-billion upgrading of all of the grids interconnected in Australia because they were not designed to deal with intermittent bursts of energy interrupting the power station generators and making them less efficient.

The expenses mount along with the transition problems: first the wind and solar farms, add rooftop solar, then in SA grid instability despite the interconnector to VIC where instability is now also becoming a major problem. Then a solution, the battery bank recharged by wind turbines when the energy they produce is not needed. Followed by more back up government owned diesel and gas generators, and thousands of government buildings, business and home generators installed because of the unreliable grid. Now upgrade the grids in all interconnected states and ACT? Australia has already spent in excess of $60 billion on renewable transition, plus shareholder's "farm" investment capital spent.

For a much lower investment expense to taxpayers/consumers upgrading of existing coal fired power stations to High Energy Low Emissions (HELE) technology plus a few new power stations could have been funded.

Solar and wind connected to batteries are expensive and not really cost effective when all costs and comparisons are considered, but the system works as many here know from experience. On a larger scale King Island in Bass Strait has wind turbines and solar panels, and battery storage, but they regularly start the diesel engine generators to avoid loss of power. And it cost more than a connector to the Tasmanian mainland grid.

EV assuming all of our ICEV were replaced by them would result in grid collapse. Of course the fleet would not be replaced in less than a decade or two but the cost to the people would be enormous, via governments and our own expenses.

Last year a Melbourne Port located residential building inquired about provision of 415V 3-phase EV recharging points and were advised that the local grid would not support it without major upgrading, and then the building would need new electrical wiring as well as charging points. It was not confined to the one building, the inquiry revealed that on a whole suburb basis there would be major upgrading required.

And that ignores replacing liquid fuel service stations with enough recharging stations for EV. Imagine holiday periods when EV demand for charging points peaked. And even if recharging was 80% within 30 minutes. And range, road tests by honest journalists revealed that theoretical battery capacity range needs to be reduced by about 30% to cover average passenger and luggage loading, road speed (highway speed consumers much more energy than suburban road speeds), air conditioning on or off, lights, headwinds, etc. A $50,000 Nissan Leaf will in the real world achieve about or just over 200 kilometres fully charged. Even if the price came down to ICEV Nissan equivalent at less than half price the range would be more than double. So I have no doubt that an EV for a city person could be practical, but expensive and inconvenient because of recharging times and messing around. On the other hand a Hybrid would be and they are acceptable, ask a city taxi cab driver.

It must be noted that consumers are not driving EV development, government and influenced by the UN IPCC is the motivator. And EV charged from coal and gas power stations is not saving emissions, and noting that burning fuel in an ICEV is more efficient than producing energy using coal or gas (or biomass) as fuel. It's a joke, Joyce!

As I posted before, my electric lawnmower is good, more than twice the price of an ICE mower and in the long run replacing battery will wipe out fuel cost savings. And recharging is much slower than refuelling. Electric boat outboard motors are popular, but limited in range and with battery weight to be considered, and its replacement.

Unfortunately in technology there is most often no one solution for all purposes. EV is in that category. Wind and solar farms are toys when compared to power stations and add all the costs for the add on technologies, far from being cost effective. And then what about disposing of rotor blades, solar panels: landfill? Environmentally acceptable, not. Up to 25 years, often less than 20 years effective operating lifetimes. Power stations can be operated for 80 years or longer. Yes, for accounting purposes, tax write off of assets, power stations are usually listed as 50 year operations.

By the way, the federal government has announced the end of RET and the subsidies (not business tax deductions for expenses incurred in earning taxable profit all businesses can use) and already the new projects list is shrinking. Without taxpayer/consumer support subsidies shareholders back away from the unreliable energy technologies. But the investors have been happy to ask for "firming" to support their for profit businesses, backup generators, batteries, etc., despite being subsidised to supply energy to the grid. And now they want the grids upgraded?

For me Hybrid technology and soon added Hydrogen technology is the future of transport, but without government picking the winners and losers please. Free market capitalism is what produced our national prosperity.

Hi 

Yes there are problems and also solutions, even ones' yet to be discovered. It reminds me of an old Aussie poem written many many years ago, published exactly 100 years ago. Knockers are not new !! My apologies to John O'Brien for the barstardisation  Jaahn

"Well all be rooned," said Hanrahan
In accents most forlorn
Outside the van ere brekky began
One frosty Sunday morn.

The campers all stood about,
Coat-collars to the ears,
And talked of batteries towing, power
As they had done for years.

"Well all be rooned," said Hanrahan, "
If the sun dont come this week."

"Theyre singin out for power," he said,
"And all the batteries dry."
The congregation scratched its head,
And gazed around the sky.

And shine it did, in Gods good time:
And sun came in to fold
A mantle oer the roofs sublime
Of blue and white and shine.

And, oh, the smiles on every face,
As happy lad and lass

did smile a-while

when using ere they want.

While round the camp in clothes genteel
Discoursed the men of mark,
And each man squatted on his heel,
And chewed his piece of bark.

"There'll be bush-fires for sure, me man,
There will, without a doubt;
Well all be rooned," said Hanrahan,
"Before the year is out."

-- Edited by Jaahn on Monday 30th of September 2019 09:18:29 AM

-- Edited by Jaahn on Monday 30th of September 2019 12:16:41 PM

Battery technology is improving faster than many realise. This yr the norm is a 400km range, 80% recharge in under 1 hr for a total range of 700km per day. say that was halved when towing, so 350km per day, do many of the members here travel more than 350km per day towing their van?
A Tesla is a luxury sports oriented vehicle, a bit like towing the van with a fully tricked up Ford turbo 6cyl petrol engine or a Holden supercharged V8. All the power in the world to do the job, but certainly not economical.
The are battery/electric vehicle designed for towing 3.5 tonne or more in production now, expect to be available sometime next yr. As these will be the first of their kind, it will depend on the uptake as to whether more research goes into improving them where weak spots are apparent, or if they decide there isn't a market and change to hybrid powered models.
Hydrogen fuel cells in place of batteries or as a supplementary power source, maybe, I think they will be too bulky to really become mainstream for an EV, but they could become mainstream for out back charging stations as an aux to solar charging.

T1 Terry

It will happen whether you want it to or not and in a fraction of the time that you expect.
Cheers,
Peter

Knight wrote:

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EV energy usage increases with speed and climbing hills. I understand that highway cruising long distance is best done at 90 kmh or less. And the range also depends on usage of energy for air conditioning or heating, load on board (people and luggage), windscreen wiper use, etc. Typically a driver should calculate or estimate range on highway by discounting at least 30% from theoretical or factory range estimate. And that would be lightly loaded.

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All of that applies to every vehicle on the road today, yesterday, tomorrow and in 100 years time irrespective of what the energy source is.

It is called PHYSICS.

Cheers,

Peter